Has Wenger really benefitted AFC since 2006?

[IBK]

In terms of a league 4th says you're the 4th best side in the country. Given that two of the sides above us are fuelled by billionaires it's nonsense to say it's 'no achievement.' A few sides have spent big to try and achieve it and failed. Obviously we need to suppliment a decent league finish with some trophies and that is where Wenger has failed but to keep any club in the top 4 for so long is more than any other manager bar Fergie has achieved. You're acting as though it's easy to finish in the top in the PL each season, that's obviously not true. Given that he has done that the failure to win trophies is damning but it's just plain wrong to think that any idiot could have kept us up there. Plenty of other clubs aspiring to finish in the top 4 have hired and fired other managers and given them pots of money to spend to try to get there and they've failed.

The irony is that Wenger has created these expectations. The frustration is the realisation that the same manager's shortcomings have most likely prevented us from winning any trophies for 6 years. The regret is that had those shortcomings not been present, we could probably have won the title at least once before Citeh had become a serious obstacle to doing so. The sadness is that 4th may be as good as it gets for AFC now.

[Niall_Quinn]

The irony is that Wenger has created these expectations. The frustration is the realisation that the same manager's shortcomings have most likely prevented us from winning any trophies for 6 years. The regret is that had those shortcomings not been present, we could probably have won the title at least once before Citeh had become a serious obstacle to doing so. The sadness is that 4th may be as good as it gets for AFC now.

I can live with 4th being as good as it gets provided we are always trying to be 1st, and no bullshit - a genuine effort to be 1st in everything all the time. That's the absolute minimum I expect from a supposedly competitive team. 100% effort, 100% ambition and 100% desire. We don't have that at Arsenal, we have players that give less than 100%, we have ambition tuned to the balance sheet rather than the team, we have zero desire when the going gets tough. Not good enough. Manager's fault for sure in terms of what goes on on the pitch, board's fault for sure in terms of what goes on off the pitch. They can pretend the buck stops with Man City but it doesn't. Aiming for 4th is shit, shit, shit.

[Coney]

The irony is that Wenger has created these expectations. The frustration is the realisation that the same manager's shortcomings have most likely prevented us from winning any trophies for 6 years. The regret is that had those shortcomings not been present, we could probably have won the title at least once before Citeh had become a serious obstacle to doing so. The sadness is that 4th may be as good as it gets for AFC now.

I don't think Wenger wants us to be 4th - I'm sure he'd like 1st the same as we would. The 4th thing is the minimum target for the year - in effect, he is saying that we must try and have CL football each year. Looking at his face during the last few games of the season make it quite clear that he does not like coming 4th. However, the loss of revenue from not getting to at least 4th would be significant and whether he stays or another manager comes along, we need that money coming on a regular basis, plus we need the carrot of CL football to stand a chance of attracting players.

[IBK]

I don't think Wenger wants us to be 4th - I'm sure he'd like 1st the same as we would. The 4th thing is the minimum target for the year - in effect, he is saying that we must try and have CL football each year. Looking at his face during the last few games of the season make it quite clear that he does not like coming 4th. However, the loss of revenue from not getting to at least 4th would be significant and whether he stays or another manager comes along, we need that money coming on a regular basis, plus we need the carrot of CL football to stand a chance of attracting players.

For sure he doesn't. But his blindspots mean that this is about the limit that he will achieve now without radical change - and even then there is the financial doping to contend with.

[Dog Toffee]

Shut up.