Summer Transfer Misery 2017/18

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Zap a Costa? Conte really doesn't like Diego.

[selassie]

It's not deadline day, it's Thursday :haha:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6cIMlKtfE0

I feel for Claude but that was a rant and a half :haha:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Sky are lost for words.

Their reporters resorting to hitting themselves with umbrellas.

[Gooner23]

It's not deadline day, it's Thursday :haha:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6cIMlKtfE0

:lol:

I don't think I could ever get that angry though. The cunts 'running' this club don't give a flying fuck about the fans so I'm not going to lose my shit over it. Will just continue to try and not put a penny into the club.

[Penguin]

Arsenal: 92m take it or leave it

Monaco: okay, we'll take it

Arsenal: what?

Monaco: what?

Arsenal: what?

...

Monaco: We said we accept your offer of £92m.

Arsenal: £25m plus £5m in add ons if he finds the cure for cancer.

Monaco: *hangs up phone*

[Niall_Quinn]

I think the window has closed now for any deal that is not already in progress. That's how I understood it anyway. Closed at 9PM but deals in progress have until 11PM.

So I guess we're done.

In:

Lacazette: 44m

Out:

Ches: 11m
Ox: 35m
Gibbs: 7m
Gabriel: 10m
Kids: 6m
Loan Fees: 4m

Profit: 29m with an option for 99m if there's any nasty surprise with Alexis.

[Niall_Quinn]

...

Monaco: We said we accept your offer of £92m.

Arsenal: £25m plus £5m in add ons if he finds the cure for cancer.

Monaco: *hangs up phone*

More like:

Arsenal: We bid 92m for Lemar.

Monaco: WTF? Fuck sure, yes. Whoo-hooooo!

Arsenal: We don't bid 92m for Lemar.

[hobson's choice]

Looks like Chelsea will get Drinkwater

[Özim]

I think the window has closed now for any deal that is not already in progress. That's how I understood it anyway. Closed at 9PM but deals in progress have until 11PM.

So I guess we're done.

In:

Lacazette: 44m

Out:

Ches: 11m
Ox: 35m
Gibbs: 7m
Gabriel: 10m
Kids: 6m
Loan Fees: 4m

Profit: 29m with an option for 99m if there's any nasty surprise with Alexis.s

Absolutely shameful, we've literaly done nothing all summer, both in terms contracts and signings (Kolasinac was signed in Jan and Lacazette was heading for Athletico so we got lucky), guess that's one of the pitfalls of having too many yachts, you have to give them all a runout in the summer!

[Gooner23]

Isn't Wenger doing his French tv thing this eve anyway? Phone must have got too hot to handle.

[Niall_Quinn]

Less than 2 hours to endure and then he can relax. Another window safely negotiated and extra cash in the bank.

http://i.imgur.com/P4jZufZ.png

[Niall_Quinn]

Lemar just scored a screamer for France.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Lemar just scored a wondergoal for the French national team. :haha::haha:


https://twitter.com/Tom_Thorp/status/903350776449335298

That's another 10 million to his price tag when we bid for him again next summer.

[fakeyank]

Can't wait for Wenger's book about the summer signings of 2017.

[Niall_Quinn]

Lemar just scored a screamer for France.

EDIT: And he just scored again.

https://www.footbie.com/video/thomas-lemar-goal-france-vs-netherlands-2-0

[Niall_Quinn]

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/92/92dba2ec5e2493420076807136aacfc3700d23686b74da9dd8 649498f9e9130a.jpg

[The Emirates Gallactico]

EDIT: And he just scored again.

https://www.footbie.com/video/thomas-lemar-goal-france-vs-netherlands-2-0

https://i.giphy.com/media/1eFH8QYvcdARy/200_s.gif

[Niall_Quinn]

Lemar just scored a wondergoal for the French national team. :haha::haha:


https://twitter.com/Tom_Thorp/status/903350776449335298

That's another 10 million to his price tag when we bid for him again next summer.

If he can hold it together, he's the next big superstar.

50 fucking million quid 2 months ago. It's the Mbappe fuck-up all over again. We lost him for a paltry 3 mill, if the stories are true.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Now Mbappe scores. :lol:

Just gets better and better.

[Niall_Quinn]

We're going to need a LOT more sympathy from opposition fans.

[fakeyank]

EDIT: And he just scored again.

https://www.footbie.com/video/thomas-lemar-goal-france-vs-netherlands-2-0

Good thing we didnt get him. He wouldnt have shot that ball if he had an Arsenal shirt on. Probably passed it to the side.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Good thing we didnt get him. He wouldnt have shot that ball if he had an Arsenal shirt on. Probably passed it to the side.

He'd be fined for shooting outside the box by Wenger. :lol:


Speaking of Wenger, I believe he's doing the commentary for French TV. So much for the phone being "red hot" on transfer deadline day. :haha::haha:

What a troll.

[Niall_Quinn]

Good thing we didnt get him. He wouldnt have shot that ball if he had an Arsenal shirt on. Probably passed it to the side.

That's what I said earlier. It would have been an act of vandalism to bring him here and subject him to Wenger. Tip, tap, tip, tap.

[Niall_Quinn]

He'd be fined for shooting outside the box by Wenger. :lol:


Speaking of Wenger, I believe he's doing the commentary for French TV. So much for the phone being "red hot" on transfer deadline day. :haha::haha:

What a troll.

Also, I must tell you, he is a cunt.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fucks Henry out the door for having a conflict of interests and now he's sitting in front of a mic on transfer deadline day. Wasn't he at some conference last timer around. Or maybe the club just try to get rid of him on such an important day?

But why is he not at his desk rescuing this club from the shit swamp he's buried it in?

WTF Gazidis? Why don't you ring him up and sack him for dereliction?

[Penguin]

Commentating on deadline day? The man is shameless.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/2f3541c1-5009-47e6-9b1c-77290db627cb

[Xhaka Can’t]

Arsenal: 92m take it or leave it

Monaco: okay, we'll take it

Arsenal: what?

Monaco: what?

Arsenal: what?

:haha:

[Power n Glory]

Ornstein says city have ended their interest after we failed to find an agreement. The deal was in place as long as we found a replacement but Lamar rejected us (lol) so Alexis stays.


Fucks Henry out the door for having a conflict of interests and now he's sitting in front of a mic on transfer deadline day. Wasn't he at some conference last timer around. Or maybe the club just try to get rid of him on such an important day?

But why is he not at his desk rescuing this club from the shit swamp he's buried it in?

WTF Gazidis? Why don't you ring him up and sack him for dereliction?

The guys a piece of shit.

[Niall_Quinn]

Is he really commentating tonight? What channel? I can't find anything. I find it impossible to believe the guy would do this, not even him.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Is he really commentating tonight? What channel? I can't find anything. I find it impossible to believe the guy would do this, not even him.

On French TV according to French Arsenal fans on twitter.

[Niall_Quinn]

On French TV according to French Arsenal fans on twitter.

Ah, Twitter. I think I'll withdraw and reserve judgement for the time being.

[Niall_Quinn]

Campbell confirms move to Real Betis. Loan deal I think.

[Penguin]

If only we were as efficient at bringing players in as we are in shipping them out.

[Özim]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/2f3541c1-5009-47e6-9b1c-77290db627cb

:haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Whoever leaves or whoever comes, AFC is still a great club. Unfortunately there's a monkeys tea party going on upstairs.

Ian Wright

[hobson's choice]

https://youtu.be/2_ZzuCME4kg

[mastermind84]

Commentating on deadline day? The man is shameless.

He has done it before but he was relieved of his job with Canal a few years ago. I don't know if this one is true.

[Niall_Quinn]

https://youtu.be/2_ZzuCME4kg

Is Tony Adams really banned from the club. Never heard that before.

[Niall_Quinn]

He has done it before but he was relieved of his job with Canal a few years ago. I don't know if this one is true.

2014 he got the boot. But I suppose he could have snuffled around and found another way to get cash at some other network. Can't confirm or dismiss it. Seems like "a thing said on Twitter" at the moment.

[Niall_Quinn]

Barkley rejects move to chavs :haha:

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Ge was spotted in Paris today so I'm assuming the TV stuff is true. Wouldn't be surprising.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIkBctFW0AAPHID.jpg



Is Tony Adams really banned from the club. Never heard that before.

tbf to the club whilst Adams is still a legend for his on the pitch contributions, he's acted like quite the cunt since he left.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ge was spotted in Paris today so I'm assuming the TV stuff is true. Wouldn't be surprising.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIkBctFW0AAPHID.jpg




tbf to the club whilst Adams is still a legend for his on the pitch contributions, he's acted like quite the cunt since he left.

In what way? He's criticised Wenger. Wrote a few nasty things about him in a book. Free world. But he can't buy a ticket and watch the team he captained now?

#FourthReich

[The Emirates Gallactico]

In what way? He's criticised Wenger. Wrote a few nasty things about him in a book. Free world. But he can't buy a ticket and watch the team he captained now?

#FourthReich

Did you see his shenanigans at Granada last year?

Or what he got up to whilst he was briefly in charge of Portsmouth.

There's a reason why his managerial career hasn't taken off and it isn't solely due to a lack of managerial talent.


Also I believe the club offered him a coaching role because he was desperately searching for employment and he was set to take it only to bail at the last minute.

[Niall_Quinn]

Did you see his shenanigans at Granada last year?

Or what he got up to whilst he was briefly in charge of Portsmouth.

There's a reason why his managerial career hasn't taken off and it isn't solely due to a lack of managerial talent.


Also I believe the club offered him a coaching role because he was desperately searching for employment and he was set to take it only to bail at the last minute.

He's been banned for being a bad manager?

Nothing you have mentioned here could possibly justifying banning one of our legendary captains. He must have done something more serious than that, or else Wenger is just the most precious git imaginable.

[AFC Leveller]

He's still commentating for them on France match days.

[Niall_Quinn]

Money grabbing bench warmer Bony on his way back to Swansea.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's still commentating for them on France match days.

Somebody needs to confirm this. Because surely it's a sackable offence to be pursuing personal interests on a day like this?

Can you imagine ringing up your boss on a product launch day and saying sorry, can't come in today, I've got a tidy little earner elsewhere.

Then again, I suppose the cunt had this written into his new contract. Another perk to go along with his pay rise.

[Niall_Quinn]

Incidentally, unless things have changed recently, it's Usmanov's partner up at Everton pumping cash into that club. A guy that wanted to pump a ton of cash into us but couldn't get a seat at the table.

[Niall_Quinn]

Incidentally, unless things have changed recently, it's Usmanov's partner up at Everton pumping cash into that club. A guy that wanted to pump a ton of cash into us but couldn't get a seat at the table.

EDIT: Yes, it Moshiri, Usmanov's partner.

[Niall_Quinn]

20 minutes to see if we can prise Mbappe away from PSG, sign Mahrez, Lemar, Draxler, Arsenio and Jonny fucking Evans.

I'm hopeful :popcorn:

[Niall_Quinn]

I honestly can't explain, can't even begin to explain, why I have sat here and watched this all day. It's totally fucking bizarre and pretty fucking unnerving in many ways. I must be totally addicted to this utter, utter shit.

[AFC Leveller]

Wenger "i believe as well that the solution is not to always buy, we have the resources and spirit to continue to fight."

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger "i believe as well that the solution is not to always buy, we have the resources and spirit to continue to fight."

I think, what he was trying to say is he's a total fucking incompetent lying cunt. Although, tbf, even though they tried their best to flog Alexis, they ended up keeping their word on that one. But only because they are so fucking incompetent they couldn't pull off their own deception.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

He's been banned for being a bad manager?

Nothing you have mentioned here could possibly justifying banning one of our legendary captains. He must have done something more serious than that, or else Wenger is just the most precious git imaginable.

By all accounts since he's tried (and failed) to move into management as a person he's been quite poisonous, obnoxious and spiteful figure (inb4 so's Wenger :rolleyes:).

At Granada he roped a few gullible businessmen together to buy the club and then took over as DOF, the club form plummeted whilst he kept constantly undermining the current manager until he eventually got sacked and was replaced by him. The club then proceeded to lose seven in a row (including some thumpings) getting relegated in the process and Adams took zero responsibility for the entire farce, blaming everyone but him for the crisis he initiated (again inb4 just like Wenger :rolleyes:).

Generally don't have a problem with ex players criticising the club or Wenger when needed. But the thing is, with the likes of Henry, Dixon, Keown, Wright, Petit ..... you can tell it's because they love the club and are genuinely dismayed with what's been going on but with Adams is just our pure spite & envy about his own managerial failure.

[Niall_Quinn]

By all accounts since he's tried (and failed) to move into management as a person he's been quite poisonous, obnoxious and spiteful figure (inb4 so's Wenger :rolleyes:).

At Granada he roped a few gullible businessmen together to buy the club and then took over as DOF, the club form plummeted whilst he kept constantly undermining the current manager until he eventually got sacked and was replaced by him. The club then proceeded to lose seven in a row (including some thumpings) getting relegated in the process and Adams took zero responsibility for the entire farce, blaming everyone but him for the crisis he initiated (again inb4 just like Wenger :rolleyes:).

Generally don't have a problem with ex players criticising the club or Wenger when needed. But the thing is, with the likes of Henry, Dixon, Keown, Wright, Petit ..... you can tell it's because they love the club and are genuinely dismayed with what's been going on but with Adams is just our pure spite & envy about his own managerial failure.

Well I don't know too much about all that so I'll take your word for it. But I still can't see why him being a useless cunt of a manager would get him banned from Arsenal, if indeed he is. I would have thought it would give him a lot in common with Wenger. They'd have a lot to slobber and slur about.

[dostoy]

Well I said sign no-one didn't I, but I did not think it would happen.

There will be big protests at the next home game and the next AGM will be toxic.

I want at least 10 more defeats in the PL this season to ensure that Arsenal finish well below halfway.

That might, I said might, ensure a mutual parting of the ways next summer.

We can only hope so, its the only thing we have left.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

From Cripps (R.I.P.) favourite football pundit, Guilleum Balague


On Thomas Lemar. Player decided against move to #AFC. Lacazette, Koscielny and Giroux went to his bedroom to convince him (all with France)

:haha::haha:

We put the hard sell on him and he still refused.



Giroud can come into my bedroom anytime he wants to btw. ##

No homo ofc.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIllsnBXoAEtlj3.jpg

A sign of things to come (league position). :(

[Özim]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIllsnBXoAEtlj3.jpg

A sign of things to come (league position). :(

If it was net spend we'd be bottom I think.

[Niall_Quinn]

From Cripps (R.I.P.) favourite football pundit, Guilleum Balague



:haha::haha:

We put the hard sell on him and he still refused.



Giroud can come into my bedroom anytime he wants to btw. ##

No homo ofc.

Cripps should be allowed back tbf. He was right all along.

[Marc Overmars]

This transfer window started quite well bagging Kolasinac and Lacashite early. Then we observed the waiting the period and couldn't be bothered to do anything else.

This club is not run anywhere near as well as it's perceived to be. What other club has ever had their 2 best players ready to leave for free? It's a pretty poor show. Then our cunt of a manager has the audacity to call it an ideal situation.

I hope Europa League games are boycotted, though with prices being slashed for it that's unlikely.

[Niall_Quinn]

If it was net spend we'd be bottom I think.

Without a shadow of a doubt.

Didn't even notice the window slamming shut.

Nice juicy profit. As Gazidis said, well be able to compete with Bayern. And we can. If it's a money counting contest.

[Niall_Quinn]

This transfer window started quite well bagging Kolasinac and Lacashite early. Then we observed the waiting the period and couldn't be bothered to do anything else.

This club is not run anywhere near as well as it's perceived to be. What other club has ever had their 2 best players ready to leave for free? It's a pretty poor show.

I hope Europa League games are boycotted, though with prices being slashed for it that's unlikely.

You mean our two bench players?

[Niall_Quinn]

Spuds bagged llorente at the last minute.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Cripps should be allowed back tbf. He was right all along.

Wasn't he like a massive Denilson fan back in the day though? I remember he kept defending him the season where he was starting every game and instead blaming Cesc instead for our midfield problems. :lol:


Wouldn't mind seeing him back if only for the banter. Does any know where he posts these days?

Seemed a bit dumb to be able to work twitter so I assume it's probably Arsenal Mania or Goonersworld.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/photos/profit-margin-287.jpg

[Niall_Quinn]

Wasn't he like a massive Denilson fan back in the day though? I remember he kept defending him the season where he was starting every game and instead blaming Cesc instead for our midfield problems. :lol:


Wouldn't mind seeing him back if only for the banter. Does any know where he posts these days?

Seemed a bit dumb to be able to work twitter so I assume it's probably Arsenal Mania or Goonersworld.

Goonersworld.

Not sure he thought Denilson was any good though. Never recall seeing any headlines in the press about somebody other than Wenger thinking Denilson was good.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

http://i.imgur.com/SVq4BvG.png?1

lol

Just as prolific a shitposter there as he was during his time here.

[Thierrymon]

I'm genuinely angry now that the transfer window is shut. An utter joke. Serious questions need to be asked of Kroenke and Wenger, which of course the spineless media wont ask.

So many lies in this transfer window alone. Wenger will blame everyone else but himself as per usual, and the fans will be left with no answers and increased frustration and anger.

Arsenal are completely out of touch with both the modern football game and the fans of the club.

[Gooner23]

So we were lied to about Alexis not being for sale, only our own incompetence meaning he is still an Arsenal player this morning.

You know its bad when the Tuesday Club release an emergency podcast!

[Power n Glory]

I love the Tuesday Club! Miss that podcast. Trend setters.

[Gooner23]

Always my favourite as well

[rodders]

This once great club is in terminal decline thanks to Wenger, Kroenke and the rest of the board. I am clutching at straws here but did not Liverpool some years back invoke some legislation to force their then American owners to sell? Something about running a company in a reckless and incompetent way?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Actually this transfer window went a lot better than I expected

It was absolutely atrociously horrendous

But I expected so much more...Mustafi and Sanchez sold without replacements

[Marc Overmars]

Not that we needed confirmation, but I think this window has proven the club is not interested in competing for the top honours. Priorities are completely different compared to other top clubs who put on the pitch matters first. Makes me laugh thinking back all those years when people thought Wenger was being thrown under a bus, when in reality he was in bed with the board the whole time. They're made for each other.

[Özim]

So let's see

We signed Kolasinac (can't really count him though as we signed him in Jan) and Lacazette (a guy we were very lucky to have, if Athletico's transfer ban hadn't stood he wouldn't be here).

We sold Gabriel, Chesney, Ox (got to say this was a shocker because he playeed every game, not sure why anyone sane would do this, and was probably in our top 3 players last season) Gibbs (we received a bid of 10 million earlier on in the season and turned that down and then accepted 7 million), Perez (we didn't manage to sell him as we wanted), Campbell (again couldn't sell him).

We're left with a positive transfer balance of 29 million I believe.

Then we had Mustafi and Sanchez who both wanted to leave, we couldn't agree a fee for Mustafi, with Sanchez we did agree a fee but couldn't sign a replacement as we left everything so late.

We were lied to about Ox not leaving and Sanchez not leaving as we accepted an offer and the only reason he didn't go is because we had no replacememt available.

Next summer we lose Alexis and mostly Ozil for nothing.

Then we hear we have no money for major signings, despite selling.

All in all an absolute disaster, left with a weaker squad/team, didn't fix problem areas, have a couple disgruntled players and maybe more if Sanchez is unpopular as we have heard, after what happened last season it's quite frankly unbelievable to be honest. Surely someone has to be held accountable, this guy has it right, this is the only way, how long can this go on for, how much longer can fans continue to be mugged on season after season, everytime fans complain they literally stick two fingers up laugh and seem to say we're not doing anything you want and don't care about any of your concerns.....oh and look we have your money and are making a profit so moan away!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqRieAxpxFM

This club is being destroyed right now, this is Wengers legacy it seems.

[Özim]

Not that we needed confirmation, but I think this window has proven the club is not interested in competing for the top honours. Priorities are completely different compared to other top clubs who put on the pitch matters first.

Fans are being totally mugged off to be honest, paying sky high prices, for rubbish football, rubbish results, not competing, no real transfer dealings and the same mistakes and things happening every season.

There has never been another club in the history of the game that has put so little emphasis on what happens on the pitch, Wenger and his cronies only care about one thing, profits, they couldn't care about where the club is football wise, no real excuses for this to be honest. This isn't a football club anymore, it's a business the worst kind of business. Strictly speaking a business that doesn't care about it's customers usually doesn't do very well, this one does and flaunts it in it's customers faces.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not that we needed confirmation, but I think this window has proven the club is not interested in competing for the top honours. Priorities are completely different compared to other top clubs who put on the pitch matters first. Makes me laugh thinking back all those years when people thought Wenger was being thrown under a bus, when in reality he was in bed with the board the whole time. They're made for each other.

I'm not sure there's any kind of thought in what the club do on a football level, it's all totally ad hoc

There's obviously no doubt that Kroenke cares only about the club as equity. But for the rest of the clowns involved on a day to day basis it's like Ian Wright said "a monkeys tea party".

[selassie]

What we are seeing right before our eyes is our beloved club being destroyed, the reputation being tarnished and damaged beyond belief. We are a rudderless ship. We lack ambition, determination, direction, organisation and above all that we lack pride.

This summer has confirmed to me that we lack any kind of plan, not only can we not strengthen the squad by bringing in new additions we can't even get rid of those we don't want or those who don't want to be here.

I just don't understand why it has come to this? I understand there are some deep rooted issues with the leadership of this club but why isn't just one person with a bit of authority trying to make things happen? Honestly what is going on? Why are we so unprofessional and small time, I'm not just talking about the technical side, what has happpened with the commercial side of the club?

We are a complete mess.

[selassie]

Fans are being totally mugged off to be honest, paying sky high prices, for rubbish football, rubbish results, not competing, no real transfer dealings and the same mistakes and things happening every season.

There has never been another club in the history of the game that has put so little emphasis on what happens on the pitch, Wenger and his cronies only care about one thing, profits, they couldn't care about where the club is football wise, no real excuses for this to be honest. This isn't a football club anymore, it's a business the worst kind of business. Strictly speaking a business that doesn't care about it's customers usually doesn't do very well, this one does and flaunts it in it's customers faces.

We are not even a successful business, not in relative terms to the growth and potential of the club.

I personally don't think it's as black and white as we are just in it for profit, because we sure aren't maximising the commercial potential of the club.

Im honestly confused to what we are doing.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Fans are being totally mugged off to be honest, paying sky high prices, for rubbish football, rubbish results, not competing, no real transfer dealings and the same mistakes and things happening every season.

There has never been another club in the history of the game that has put so little emphasis on what happens on the pitch, Wenger and his cronies only care about one thing, profits, they couldn't care about where the club is football wise, no real excuses for this to be honest. This isn't a football club anymore, it's a business the worst kind of business. Strictly speaking a business that doesn't care about it's customers usually doesn't do very well, this one does and flaunts it in it's customers faces.

I think in fairness if they only cared about profit they wouldn't make such a mess over players wages.

Deportivo for instance wanted Perez back permenantly but we only managed to send him on loan with no option to buy at end of the season.

We still have Debuchy, Jenkinson, Campbell on the books. It may have all been about money at one time. But if anything Wenger has spunked more money up the wall than most. It seems more to me that the owner and what can be called the board, are largely as happy with the arrangement to leave it all up to Wenger as he is.

They plotted to force a DOF on him in my opinion as a reaction to fan anger being directed at them.

Of course Wenger is to blame he is not a patsy or an unwilling participant. He is a stubborn old control freak who is too scared of retirement and too arrogant as a result of his exulted position to either change his ways or go.

But I suspect it will take a lot to get rid of Wenger because it means they might have to earn their salaries

[selassie]

I think in fairness if they only cared about profit they wouldn't make such a mess over players wages.

Deportivo for instance wanted Perez back permenantly but we only managed to send him on loan with no option to buy at end of the season.

We still have Debuchy, Jenkinson, Campbell on the books. It may have all been about money at one time. But if anything Wenger has spunked more money up the wall than most. It seems more to me that the owner and what can be called the board, are largely as happy with the arrangement to leave it all up to Wenger as he is.

They plotted to force a DOF on him in my opinion as a reaction to fan anger being directed at them.

Of course Wenger is to blame he is not a patsy or an unwilling participant. He is a stubborn old control freak who is too scared of retirement and too arrogant as a result of his exulted position to either change his ways or go.

But I suspect it will take a lot to get rid of Wenger because it means they might have to earn their salaries

Agreed.

The only man that has power to get rid of Wenger is Kroenke. Ivan and Chips Keswick already threw Wenger under a bus last season when his contract renewal talks were at fever pitch, they were overruled by Kroenke. Wenger is here until Kroenke says otherwise.

Kroenke is obviously a major problem but so is Wenger. I don't even care that we are not top 4 material anymore but I do care that Wenger is doing nothing to get us back there. He's destroyed the technical side of this club.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And I don't think Kroenke is here enough to care.

As sleeping partners go he's in a coma

Wenger has to be hounded out. I didn't like this approach last season and in fairness I still don't like it now but it's hardly like he's left us much choice. It isn't like the home fan base turned on him in the majority, the way things are going now I think they are going to be pushed to it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Getting booed at away games is one thing, facing the majority of fans at home games chanting "Wenger out".

He isn't some kind of super human, he already admitted the criticism last season got to him.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Cheer up guys.

Alexis is like a new signing.

[Özim]

We are not even a successful business, not in relative terms to the growth and potential of the club.

I personally don't think it's as black and white as we are just in it for profit, because we sure aren't maximising the commercial potential of the club.

Im honestly confused to what we are doing.

I agree with this, but it's maximum profit with minimum effort IMO, realistically in the long term investing and being successful would reap much greater rewards, but ultimately there's a risk, one we don't want to take. It's an asset for Kroenke and as long as his asset grows in value and makes a nice profit every year he's happy, he can use this asset to make money elsewhere in areas he's more familiar with because let's be honest he's neither interested in football, nor does he have any knowledge about it.

[selassie]

Getting booed at away games is one thing, facing the majority of fans at home games chanting "Wenger out".

He isn't some kind of super human, he already admitted the criticism last season got to him.

I'm pretty sure he will get hounded out this season, he's made his position untenable IMO. It's different to previous seasons, he is managing a toxic and divided squad now if the Reports are to be believed. This season is going to be very messy.

[Özim]

I think in fairness if they only cared about profit they wouldn't make such a mess over players wages.

Deportivo for instance wanted Perez back permenantly but we only managed to send him on loan with no option to buy at end of the season.

We still have Debuchy, Jenkinson, Campbell on the books. It may have all been about money at one time. But if anything Wenger has spunked more money up the wall than most. It seems more to me that the owner and what can be called the board, are largely as happy with the arrangement to leave it all up to Wenger as he is.

They plotted to force a DOF on him in my opinion as a reaction to fan anger being directed at them.

Of course Wenger is to blame he is not a patsy or an unwilling participant. He is a stubborn old control freak who is too scared of retirement and too arrogant as a result of his exulted position to either change his ways or go.

But I suspect it will take a lot to get rid of Wenger because it means they might have to earn their salaries

Maybe they let Wenger have free reign, seeing as he delivers profit every year they are happy with his performance (Kroenke is anyway), this means Kroenke doens't have to get involved and has a business that runs itself whilst he can concentrate on things he's interested in, it's a sidenote for him nothing more, one that he doesn't hae to put any effort into.

The wages thing is all Wenger, he has these crazy ideas about paying kids big money and re-signin up players who have never achieved anything on more money on long term contract and is utterly incompetent. Ironically he's let our 3 best players run down their contracts, that's Wenger all over though, clueless.

Kroenke doesn't care as long as his asset grows in value and he makes a profit, Wenger it totally incompetent and ridiculously stubborn and has way too much power over all aspsects, he doesn't see what everyone else see's and doesn't really value success on the pitch that highly, his measurement of success is finances.

[Gooner23]

I'm pretty sure he will get hounded out this season, he's made his position untenable IMO. It's different to previous seasons, he is managing a toxic and divided squad now if the Reports are to be believed. This season is going to be very messy.

Yeah I think its possible as well, if fans continue to protest inside stadium AND players look like they are downing tools

[Marc Overmars]

He's going to prove how great he is by getting 4th this season. #progress

[selassie]

I agree with this, but it's maximum profit with minimum effort IMO, realistically in the long term investing and being successful would reap much greater rewards, but ultimately there's a risk, one we don't want to take. It's an asset for Kroenke and as long as his asset grows in value and makes a nice profit every year he's happy, he can use this asset to make money elsewhere in areas he's more familiar with because let's be honest he's neither interested in football, nor does he have any knowledge about it.

Aye, I agree with this. What I don't fully understand is why we are not trying to do more to maximise our global appeal. I'm not talking about investing millions in marketing campaigns but more about aggressively exposes ourselves to the American and Asian markets like our rivals do. I actually think Gazidis has absolutely no power or say so at all. All decisions irrespective of what they are appear to be being made by Wenger and signed off by Kroenke.

[Özim]

I'm pretty sure he will get hounded out this season, he's made his position untenable IMO. It's different to previous seasons, he is managing a toxic and divided squad now if the Reports are to be believed. This season is going to be very messy.

Time will tell, I think what's more likely is he'll pick up a few results against small teams and discontent will become less apparent, then he'll lose a couple and it'll come back and so on. At the end of the season when we have nothing to play for he'll win a few meaningless games and that will be that.

The guy isn't leaving unless fans stop turning up and make it untenable for him, I can't see that happening, I've already heard the line that tourists will replace fans that don't turn up as an excuse, they won't, tourists won't be that bothered about seeing Arsenal, not at the prices they charge, we're not Barcelona.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Maybe they let Wenger have free reign, seeing as he delivers profit every year they are happy with his performance (Kroenke is anyway), this means Kroenke doens't have to get involved and has a business that runs itself whilst he can concentrate on things he's interested in, it's a sidenote for him nothing more, one that he doesn't hae to put any effort into.

The wages thing is all Wenger, he has these crazy ideas about paying kids big money and re-signin up players who have never achieved anything on more money on long term contract and is utterly incompetent. Ironically he's let our 3 best players run down their contracts, that's Wenger all over though, clueless.

Kroenke doesn't care as long as his asset grows in value and he makes a profit, Wenger it totally incompetent and ridiculously stubborn and has way too much power over all aspsects, he doesn't see what everyone else see's and doesn't really value success on the pitch that highly, his measurement of success is finances.

The thing is though this is the first time in five years we have even made over 20million from a single player sale

So yeah in general the club is ticking along nicely in terms of share value mainly due to tv money and ticket prices

Accumulatively Wengers shit socialist wage structure has seen us lose multiple millions in cash in the last few years

And yet he wouldn't give Ozil and Sanchez more money because he didn't like them earning more than him.

So he is essentially losing the club money as we are likely to lose both for nothing next season. So the maximising profit argument doesn't make sense.

Kroenke is absentee owner and it will take a lot for our financial up fuckery to be a danger to him as an investor.

Basically the whole thing is just about utter and total neglect.

[Power n Glory]

I have no idea what’s going on. Seems like the Board are gripped by the Cult of Wenger. This can’t be a simple cash grab. It doesn’t add up. I’ve always said the wage bill was too high and if anyone were trying to maximise profit, they’d look to our wage bill first. That hasn’t happened.

We ended up with a £30m profit from the transfer window. That’s peanuts and couldn’t have been there overall target. Why not sell Sanchez for £60m if we need quick money? If he’s disruptive to the squad and team harmony, why keep would we keep him? Same can be said for Mustafi. If Wenger doesn’t rate him, why keep him and if the Board only care about money, why not cash in? Why not cash in on Chambers? If Wenger has said the Board may overrule him and he’ll accept their decision, why in the world would they not oblige and just sell the players if they’re more interested in profit?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I have no idea what’s going on. Seems like the Board are gripped by the Cult of Wenger. This can’t be a simple cash grab. It doesn’t add up. I’ve always said the wage bill was too high and if anyone were trying to maximise profit, they’d look to our wage bill first. That hasn’t happened.

We ended up with a £30m profit from the transfer window. That’s peanuts and couldn’t have been there overall target. Why not sell Sanchez for £60m if we need quick money? If he’s disruptive to the squad and team harmony, why keep would we keep him? Same can be said for Mustafi. If Wenger doesn’t rate him, why keep him and if the Board only care about money, why not cash in? Why not cash in on Chambers? If Wenger has said the Board may overrule him and he’ll accept their decision, why in the world would they not oblige and just sell the players if they’re more interested in profit?

It is very hard to make sense of, and I think it's because we are trying to find sensible explanations for it

The only conclusion I've been able to come to. Is that because Wenger is the only one at the club with extensive football knowledge that they just don't want to rattle his cage and would prefer to leave him to do as he sees fit.

Also we saw that when they do intervene, he basically disrespected his supposed bosses and shat all over them. Gazidis and Keswick don't have the where with all to just up and go, so they just I imagine sit back and think do what you like.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But whilst we here let's give some thought to Mahmood Ahmedinijad look a like Ryad Mahrez waiting all day at Charles De Gaulle airport waiting to get a flight to who knows where in the anticipation that he'd be moving there.

:violin:

[Xhaka Can’t]

Time will tell, I think what's more likely is he'll pick up a few results against small teams and discontent will become less apparent, then he'll lose a couple and it'll come back and so on. At the end of the season when we have nothing to play for he'll win a few meaningless games and that will be that.

The guy isn't leaving unless fans stop turning up and make it untenable for him, I can't see that happening, I've already heard the line that tourists will replace fans that don't turn up as an excuse, they won't, tourists won't be that bothered about seeing Arsenal, not at the prices they charge, we're not Barcelona.

People not going isn't going to happen on a scale that will impact upon the finances. This is exacerbated by the fact London is one of the worlds biggest tourist destinations and Arsenal is seen as a day out. Not just by visiting Arsenal fans, but fans of football in general.

Sadly for us, these fans are by far the most lucrative. No visit is complete for them without a visit to the Club shop, concessions, museum, etc.

So even if numbers drop, it doesn't matter. Many of the people not turning up are Season ticket holders, Silver and Red members who have either already ploughed their money into the coffers and/or won't be spending any further money other than at surrounding pubs and takeaways which means nothing to the Club.

So while overall attendance drops, revenue through more tickets available to visitors actually increases.

It is a fucked up world.

[Power n Glory]

People not going isn't going to happen on a scale that will impact upon the finances. This is exacerbated by the fact London is one of the worlds biggest tourist destinations and Arsenal is seen as a day out. Not just by visiting Arsenal fans, but fans of football in general.

Sadly for us, these fans are by far the most lucrative. No visit is complete for them without a visit to the Club shop, concessions, museum, etc.

So even if numbers drop, it doesn't matter. Many of the people not turning up are Season ticket holders, Silver and Red members who have either already ploughed their money into the coffers and/or won't be spending any further money other than at surrounding pubs and takeaways which means nothing to the Club.

So while overall attendance drops, revenue through more tickets available to visitors actually increases.

It is a fucked up world.


The protests will have to be about the visual effect and just showing discontent. They don't care that they've dropped the CL money. They're happy to let Ozil and Sanchez walk on a free and given up the chance to make at least £100m in the transfer window.

I think Wenger is here on a sympathy vote. It makes no sense to keep on otherwise.

Fans will just have to protest all season and see what happens.

[Özim]

Apparently we're safeguarding money for the next 2 transfer windows that's why we didn't have money left. That's a laugh and a half, we never by anyone in January and don't spend in the summer either!

1:11 in the below video.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41119891

Apparently we've improved the squad where Wenger wanted to, left back and up front and are looking to challenge this season :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

He's going to prove how great he is by getting 4th this season. #progress

That's exactly how it will be done. The veteran warrior, the last great football manager, embattled, surrounded by his enemies, but still he finds a way to drag the team to 4th place triumph (or very close, within touching distance, how unlucky).

The players will have to find the way to do this, for the sake of their own careers. It has become a curse to be an Arsenal player now. Look at Ozil. Look at Walcott. Look at Ramsey. Look at the defenders. They are all perceived as weak, soft. They aren't. But they are drugged by Wenger's incompetence so they can easily be punched out by determined pub brawlers. We saw against the chavs in the cup final (and on a few other rare occasions) that this team can fight, that these players are no pushovers. The players will have to orgainise themselves for the rest of this season, fight for themselves, block everything else out including (somehow) Wenger. That is their only option now. They need a leader to step up, like a hated John Terry. Helps you to realise, doesn't it, that Terry may have led a revolt that made us all feel sick. But the resulting title more than compensated, go and ask any chav fan. Who is that leader in our club? Step forward. I think Ramsey may have put himself up for the job and if that's the case we have to give him 100% support through hell or high water.

It's all down to these players now. And the support the fans can give to drag them across every finish line. Players, playing for the fans, fans supporting the players through thick and thin. And Wenger must be LOCKED OUT by the fans. Booed every time he shows his face. It must be made clear he's not welcome here. He's unwanted. Unwanted by anyone bar the scumbags in the boardroom. They are his friends now, his only friends. He wanted it, now he's got it.

And if this can happen then this squad still has enough about it to claw its way to a top 4 finish. Won't be easy, but it's possible. And from that effort a team might emerge. And that team might encourage players to want to stay and new players to want to come. It's the only way. The players and the fans, the fans and the players.

By fan I mean anyone who has genuine sentiment for this club. Not those tourist cunts or those hopeless freaks who will never abandon the Cult of Wenger. Fuck them. They aren't included. They helped bring about this whole mess and they aren't the in any way useful for finding a solution.

And if the players and the fans can do this, then they'll just have to suck it up when that godawful, cowardly bunch of sycophantic pricks who call themselves journalists nominate Wenger as manager of the year. That will just have to be the price that is paid, the fantasy that will have to be endured. Like any other fantasy in our maggot ridden "representative democracy" where failure, waste and nest feathering are the ultimate drivers.

We have to start treating the media like Liverpool fans treat it.

This is achievable if there are enough Arsenal fans to make it happen and a connection can be established between the fans and the players. All this business about not giving the club our support or our money. Wrong! We aren't fighting the club. We're fighting the cunts who have hijacked it. So hoping for losses, slaughtering the players, refusing to watch, that's just inviting another fucking tourists to spend ten times what you would spend. We support the club, it's our club. But we hate the fucking cunts who have hijacked it, including that shitty bloke Wenger who is like the fucking Annakin Skywalker of football.

We could start by pouring every sort of message possible into Ramsey's inbox offering total, unwavering support.

[Niall_Quinn]

I have no idea what’s going on. Seems like the Board are gripped by the Cult of Wenger. This can’t be a simple cash grab. It doesn’t add up. I’ve always said the wage bill was too high and if anyone were trying to maximise profit, they’d look to our wage bill first. That hasn’t happened.

We ended up with a £30m profit from the transfer window. That’s peanuts and couldn’t have been there overall target. Why not sell Sanchez for £60m if we need quick money? If he’s disruptive to the squad and team harmony, why keep would we keep him? Same can be said for Mustafi. If Wenger doesn’t rate him, why keep him and if the Board only care about money, why not cash in? Why not cash in on Chambers? If Wenger has said the Board may overrule him and he’ll accept their decision, why in the world would they not oblige and just sell the players if they’re more interested in profit?

30 million quid, roughly equivalent to lost earnings from a typically embarrassing CL campaign.

[Power n Glory]

:lol: Thank you, Tuesday Club, for reminding me that Wenger would actually play Bendy on the right wing!

[Niall_Quinn]

Apparently we're safeguarding money for the next 2 transfer windows that's why we didn't have money left. That's a laugh and a half, we never by anyone in January and don't spend in the summer either!

1:11 in the below video.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41119891

Apparently we've improved the squad where Wenger wanted to, left back and up front and are looking to challenge this season :lol:

Very clever. The way they have synchronised the facial movements with Wenger's hand movements. A real pro too, having Arsene's fist stuck up your arsehole has to be a little distracting, although he's had enough experience by now to be used to it I suppose.

Yes indeed. Those are definitely the questions I'd ask as an Arsenal fan. Can't think of a single thing that wasn't covered. Thanks BBC.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol: Thank you, Tuesday Club, for reminding me that Wenger would actually play Bendy on the right wing!

Tuesday Club, my favourite too. Tbf, usually the only one I listen to.

[Niall_Quinn]

"The Ox has signed for Liverpool, 4 days after making his debut for them."

[selassie]

Apparently we're safeguarding money for the next 2 transfer windows that's why we didn't have money left.

Apparently we've improved the squad where Wenger wanted to, left back and up front and are looking to challenge this season :lol:

:haha: :haha: :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Good news finally!

We've got the wrong end of the stick lads. In reality Arsenal deserve credit for this transfer window. Poor Arsenal just can't win with their despicable fans, fans who keep poking their noses into things that don't concern them. John Cross explains why we should be grateful this morning.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-look-weaker-last-season-11093467

[Niall_Quinn]

Everyone got their man.

Except us.

http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article11090694.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Monacos-stars-now.jpg

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Tuesday Club, my favourite too. Tbf, usually the only one I listen to.

Good stuff. I'll listen to it on the way to work.

I've listened to a bunch of them this week because it's been quite cathartic to see other people wallow in the same misery I've been in since Sunday. Same reason why I've posted so much on here as well - stress therapy.

- Arsecast Extra: Elucidated the issues at the club very comprehensively

- ArsenalVision Podcast: Really highlighted Wenger's managerial flaws and incompetence but deliberately avoid talk of Ivan/Stan because of length.

- Bergkamp Wonderland: meh. Don't really like this one normally as it doesn't carry the same intellectual depth of the others - usually just a podcast version of AFTV of people rambling and repeating the obvious


Funniest one though had to be "Footballistically Arsenal" - I thought Ty and Neville were the only two, but they had three people (out of four) who were still Wenger in's and were doing damage control for the club. Albeit one of those was "GeoffArsenal", who's basically the king of the AKB's and Dan Roebuck who actually works for the club as a matchday commentator.

Link if you want to have a good laugh (and not in the good sense)

http://playbackmedia.co.uk/podcasts/footballistically-arsenal/

[Özim]

Everyone got their man.

Except us.

http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article11090694.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Monacos-stars-now.jpg

Everyone wanted their man.

Except us.

[Niall_Quinn]

Good stuff. I'll listen to it on the way to work.

I've listened to a bunch of them this week because it's been quite cathartic to see other people wallow in the same misery I've been in since Sunday. Same reason why I've posted so much on here as well - stress therapy.

- Arsecast Extra: Elucidated the issues at the club very comprehensively

- ArsenalVision Podcast: Really highlighted Wenger's managerial flaws and incompetence but deliberately avoid talk of Ivan/Stan because of length.

- Bergkamp Wonderland: meh. Don't really like this one normally as it doesn't carry the same intellectual depth of the others - usually just a podcast version of AFTV of people rambling and repeating the obvious


Funniest one though had to be "Footballistically Arsenal" - I thought Ty and Neville were the only two, but they had three people (out of four) who were still Wenger in's and were doing damage control for the club. Albeit one of those was "GeoffArsenal", who's basically the king of the AKB's and Dan Roebuck who actually works for the club as a matchday commentator.

Link if you want to have a good laugh (and not in the good sense)

http://playbackmedia.co.uk/podcasts/footballistically-arsenal/

I might take out some life insurance and the give that a listen. I find it impossible to comprehend or even believe that anyone calling themselves a fan could be onboard with this shit now. But I'll try listening to the other side of the argument, provided I can get a decent premium on the insurance.

[Gooner23]

I only really listen to Tuesday Club (when they make them) and the odd Arsecast or Le Grove one. Its definitely cathartic though.

[Özim]

:haha: :haha: :haha:

Laughable isn't it, the clowns at the club think people will believe this nonsense (I know people have been gullible but come on).

I just wish someone would grill Arsene Wenger and co and really let them know what people think, he should come out and face the fans, of course he never does, worse still the club filter out all the awkward questions so he can get an easy ride and fans can be bored at the same questions being asked.

Would love him to face some of the fans we see who are annoyed to see how he deals with that, the guy has had it far far too easy and doesn't deserve it, he needs a reality check, someone telling him 4th place isn't a success and that he's done nothing in over a decade would be a start, there's so much people could say.

Maybe one day someone will setup a fan question time with Wenger, a bit like what AFTV did with Neville, credit where it's due he turned up, not sure Wenger would.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If you were Wenger would you?

[Niall_Quinn]

I only really listen to Tuesday Club (when they make them) and the odd Arsecast or Le Grove one. Its definitely cathartic though.

Good points about Gilberto. One of the most underrated players of all. I'll always remember Wenger snubbing him for the captaincy and then getting rid of him for absolutely no reason whatsoever. That alarm bells should have been deafening by that stage, but I guess most of us were still basking in the glory days. Gilberto fucking loved this club. I remember his flag at the world cup when he was bossing it for Brazil - "It's just like watching Arsenal" Great bloke, great player. Fuck you Wenger.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://playbackmedia.co.uk/podcasts/footballistically-arsenal/

GRRRRRRR! Veins are starting to pop.

Geoff Cunt - 'Erm, well, you know, erm, all those people saying he's playing players out of position, well, err, you know, err, who's to say that, err, if another manager came in, err, you know?"

And that's it. The last reason why Wenger should stay. Because we might get a worse manager in to replace him (even though that's completely impossible).

[Özim]

If you were Wenger would you?

If I was Wenger I wouldn't do what he's doing so I wouldn't be in that situation.

But if you're responsible for a mess like this then you have a duty to face up to those concerned, as anyone would if they made an error at work.

If he believes in his methods so much then he should be brave enough to face people and reply to their questions/opinions, you don't get paid that kind of money a year ti hide behind the coat tails of the club, indeed if he cared at all about the fans he would, the club would have called a meeting many moons ago.

Filtering questions because you can't take the heat is cowardly IMO.

[Marc Overmars]

And that's it. The last reason why Wenger should stay. Because we might get a worse manager in to replace him (even though that's completely impossible).

You'd be surprised at how many are still afraid of change. Stockholm Syndrome perhaps.

[Özim]

You'd be surprised at how many are still afraid of change.

Afraid of change from this mess, I'd prefer the club the way it was before Wenger was in charge than this mess. At least back then there was still a lot to love about the club, what's left now? It's barely a football club anymore.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://playbackmedia.co.uk/podcasts/footballistically-arsenal/

GRRRRRRR! Veins are starting to pop.

Geoff Cunt - 'Erm, well, you know, erm, all those people saying he's playing players out of position, well, err, you know, err, who's to say that, err, if another manager came in, err, you know?"

And that's it. The last reason why Wenger should stay. Because we might get a worse manager in to replace him (even though that's completely impossible).

This podcast is unbelievable. If this is what we're up against then we have no chance at all. These people need to be locked away for their own safety and everyone elses.

[Power n Glory]

Good points about Gilberto. One of the most underrated players of all. I'll always remember Wenger snubbing him for the captaincy and then getting rid of him for absolutely no reason whatsoever. That alarm bells should have been deafening by that stage, but I guess most of us were still basking in the glory days. Gilberto fucking loved this club. I remember his flag at the world cup when he was bossing it for Brazil - "It's just like watching Arsenal" Great bloke, great player. Fuck you Wenger.

The snub for the captaincy over William Gallas was a disgrace. Wenger doesn't reward loyalty but demands it from his players.

Wenger doesn't deserve to leave on a high.

[hobson's choice]

Good points about Gilberto. One of the most underrated players of all. I'll always remember Wenger snubbing him for the captaincy and then getting rid of him for absolutely no reason whatsoever. That alarm bells should have been deafening by that stage, but I guess most of us were still basking in the glory days. Gilberto fucking loved this club. I remember his flag at the world cup when he was bossing it for Brazil - "It's just like watching Arsenal" Great bloke, great player. Fuck you Wenger.

Yes it was so tacky how he took the captaincy from him.

That 06/07 season Gilberto was the leader of that team. He was so impressive when Henry was out injured that season. He really stepped up as a leader.

I hope if he goes into coaching he's brought back to the club. That's if Arsene not around.

[Power n Glory]

I only really listen to Tuesday Club (when they make them) and the odd Arsecast or Le Grove one. Its definitely cathartic though.


Worth checking for Arsenal Vision Podcast. It's more on the tactical side and features Tim Stillman who often has a column over at Arseblog.

Will listen to the Arseblog podcast now.

[Niall_Quinn]

This podcast is unbelievable. If this is what we're up against then we have no chance at all. These people need to be locked away for their own safety and everyone elses.

AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

OMFG!

Poch is no good because he hasn't won anything. Therefore, he couldn't manage Arsenal, he couldn't challenge for a title (even though he did with a cheaper team). Because, of fucking course, we have a real challenger here. Don't we? Koeman the same. Hasn't won, hasn't challenged, he can't manage Arsenal.

BUT - top manager wouldn't come here because they'll go to the chavs and the gypos and Utd, because those clubs have a different business model and it's totally unreasonable for Arsenal to be expected to compete with them. EVEN THOUGH LEICESTER DID!

BUT, from time to time, teams like Leicester pop up. BUT ARSENAL DON'T FUCKING POP UP - DO THEY?

WTF?

You can't argue against this shit. It goes round and round, eating itself. All you can do when faced with a Wengerite is stare blankly, maybe make gurgling noises. It's impossible.

[Niall_Quinn]

Klopp is shite because, okay, he regularly beats his rivals BUT... he hasn't won a title.

The facht is - every manager other than Wenger is shit. So we already have the best manager and there's no point replacing him.

Indeed, isn't this what the club forced Gazidis to say?

If I agree with these cunts will they go away :doh:

[Niall_Quinn]

Breaking News: Lacazette asked Wenger not to play him last Sunday because the PL is too tough for him.

Well, that clears that up. All those interviews with Lacazette where he said he couldn't wait to play - all lies.

[Niall_Quinn]

This podcast is great. Clearing up so much for me. Bellerin played on the left because Wenger has 1,000 games experience.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If I was Wenger I wouldn't do what he's doing so I wouldn't be in that situation.

But if you're responsible for a mess like this then you have a duty to face up to those concerned, as anyone would if they made an error at work.

If he believes in his methods so much then he should be brave enough to face people and reply to their questions/opinions, you don't get paid that kind of money a year ti hide behind the coat tails of the club, indeed if he cared at all about the fans he would, the club would have called a meeting many moons ago.

Filtering questions because you can't take the heat is cowardly IMO.

I could be the manager and doing a fantastic job and wouldn't go on Arsenal fan TV

Whilst I think it's a good forum for fans to vent, it should be beneath a manager to appear on such things

Plus all managers have soft ball questions thrown at them in the main. Was Mourinho really put up under direct media scrutiny and questioning for his childish attitude at Chelsea in the autumn of 2015?.

[Özim]

Klopp is shite because, okay, he regularly beats his rivals BUT... he hasn't won a title.

The facht is - every manager other than Wenger is shit. So we already have the best manager and there's no point replacing him.

Indeed, isn't this what the club forced Gazidis to say?

If I agree with these cunts will they go away :doh:

Brainwashed by Wenger, you'd think the club never existed before Wenger arrived.

Not being funny but he won 3 leagues and 7 FA Cups (3 in a time where it's been 2nd tier) and yes we played some amazing football and had some great players but he's been here for 20 years, on that basis it's not a great return. For 7 years it was great, for 13 it's been rubbish, that's 2/3 of his career here. In all that time not even a European trophy either. He's never reproduced those early days either, so you could question whether his success was in big part down to the leadership he inherited and his knowledge of the French market and nutrition back then.

Great managers remain great for most of their career, not for a fraction of it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Beneath a manager? To talk directly to the fans?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

OMFG!

Poch is no good because he hasn't won anything. Therefore, he couldn't manage Arsenal, he couldn't challenge for a title (even though he did with a cheaper team). Because, of fucking course, we have a real challenger here. Don't we? Koeman the same. Hasn't won, hasn't challenged, he can't manage Arsenal.

BUT - top manager wouldn't come here because they'll go to the chavs and the gypos and Utd, because those clubs have a different business model and it's totally unreasonable for Arsenal to be expected to compete with them. EVEN THOUGH LEICESTER DID!

BUT, from time to time, teams like Leicester pop up. BUT ARSENAL DON'T FUCKING POP UP - DO THEY?

WTF?

You can't argue against this shit. It goes round and round, eating itself. All you can do when faced with a Wengerite is stare blankly, maybe make gurgling noises. It's impossible.

Jesus

You're either drinking too much or not drinking enough.

Why on earth would you put yourself through it.

If I wanted to make myself angry I'd watch an episode of TOWIE and take in how those cunts have made Brentwoods reputation even lower than it was already

[Özim]

I could be the manager and doing a fantastic job and wouldn't go on Arsenal fan TV

Whilst I think it's a good forum for fans to vent, it should be beneath a manager to appear on such things

Plus all managers have soft ball questions thrown at them in the main. Was Mourinho really put up under direct media scrutiny and questioning for his childish attitude at Chelsea in the autumn of 2015?.

I wasn't talking about AFTV, I was talking about facing the paying fans which would be totally reasonable considering this club would be nothing without them.

Yes the questions are soft, but to be fair Mourinho hasn't really done what Wenger has, he's consistently been successful and turned teams into top sides, this is a bit different this is years of failure, years of mistakes, years of the same.

[Özim]

Beneath a manager? To talk directly to the fans?

They haven't made 10,000 substitutions.

[Niall_Quinn]

Brainwashed by Wenger, you'd think the club never existed before Wenger arrived.

Not being funny but he won 3 leagues and 7 FA Cups (3 in a time where it's been 2nd tier) and yes we played some amazing football and had some great players but he's been here for 20 years, on that basis it's not a great return. For 7 years it was great, for 13 it's been rubbish, that's 2/3 of his career here. In all that time not even a European trophy either. He's never reproduced those early days either, so you could question whether his success was in big part down to the leadership he inherited and his knowledge of the French market and nutrition back then.

Great managers remain great for most of their career, not for a fraction of it.

But they aren't brainwashed by Wenger. He's not breaking into their homes and hypnotising them. They are CHOOSING to be this fucking ridiculous. Totally delusional.

[rodders]

See that Sanchez so pissed off threatens never to play for club again!!!

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Beneath a manager? To talk directly to the fans?

Erm on a YouTube broadcast with a cast made up of characters that are a cross between the muppet show and police academy yes.

It's for the birds. Managers should be judged on the performance they get from the team on the pitch. And if that performance is shit they should be answerable to their bosses, that that is contrary to what happens at Arsenal is not a good reason for Wenger to try to answer a question from Troopz

"You err say these words like blood and fam, I do not know what you mean by them"

[Niall_Quinn]

Jesus

You're either drinking too much or not drinking enough.

Why on earth would you put yourself through it.

If I wanted to make myself angry I'd watch an episode of TOWIE and take in how those cunts have made Brentwoods reputation even lower than it was already

Are you giving me advice on drinking? Have you drunk 10,000 bottles?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I wasn't talking about AFTV, I was talking about facing the paying fans which would be totally reasonable considering this club would be nothing without them.

Yes the questions are soft, but to be fair Mourinho hasn't really done what Wenger has, he's consistently been successful and turned teams into top sides, this is a bit different this is years of failure, years of mistakes, years of the same.

And Wenger at his worst did not do to the club what Mourinho did to Chelsea. If they weren't a billionaire club the shit he left them in two years ago would still be bothering them now and for the foreseeable future.

It's just a fact, you're not going to get a manager answering anything other than what's your favourite book from fans

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Are you giving me advice on drinking? Have you drunk 10,000 bottles?

In what frame of time are we talking?

[Niall_Quinn]

Erm on a YouTube broadcast with a cast made up of characters that are a cross between the muppet show and police academy yes.

It's for the birds. Managers should be judged on the performance they get from the team on the pitch. And if that performance is shit they should be answerable to their bosses, that that is contrary to what happens at Arsenal is not a good reason for Wenger to try to answer a question from Troopz

"You err say these words like blood and fam, I do not know what you mean by them"

Because the likes of Cross and Ornstein are far, far more respectable. Right? And the BBC is such a credible platform? What do those cunts have to do with Arsenal, beyond the brown envelope slipped under the door? You'll find the real fans elsewhere, so why not speak to them?

[Özim]

See that Sanchez so pissed off threatens never to play for club again!!!

Wouldn't be surprised and with no time left on his contract we're screwed, in 6 months he knows he find another club, he knows he'll play for Chile in the World Cup if they qualify, there's no real motivation for him.

Be different if he had 3-4 years left because he'd know we could leave him in the reserves for as long as we want and sell him for whatever we want.

[Niall_Quinn]

In what frame of time are we talking?

You expect me to remember that?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Plus in all honesty what good would it do?

Do you honestly expect him to come up with a satisfactory answer to the questions?

If someone says why don't you quit or why doesn't the owner sack you? What would you expect him to say? I quite agree with you.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You expect me to remember that?

Well if we are talking in the last few hours.....I just wanted to have the chance to say goodbye

[Özim]

And Wenger at his worst did not do to the club what Mourinho did to Chelsea. If they weren't a billionaire club the shit he left them in two years ago would still be bothering them now and for the foreseeable future.

It's just a fact, you're not going to get a manager answering anything other than what's your favourite book from fans

He's done a lot worse, Mounrinho won plenty of trophies at Chelsea, then he lost his job (and it happens to the best of them), Mourinho did this for one season before he lost his job, Wenger has been doing this for over a decade, he's made the fans turn against the club....when has that happened at Chelsea?

Would rather have had Wenger doing what Mourinho do than what Wenger is doing personally, been bored of this stuff for years, nothing enjoyable about this club, same thing can't be said about Chelsea.

Wenger has turned this club into losers, everything about this club, this wasn't the case before he arrived.

[Özim]

Plus in all honesty what good would it do?

Do you honestly expect him to come up with a satisfactory answer to the questions?

If someone says why don't you quit or why doesn't the owner sack you? What would you expect him to say? I quite agree with you.

I just think he would be put under pressure and would have to answer for his actions, right now he just pretends it's not happening and it's easy for him to do, it's quite different when you know you have to face up to you mistakes.

[Niall_Quinn]

Little tidbit that escaped into the media this morning, regarding Alexis:


The respective chief executives, Ivan Gazidis and Ferran Soriano had been in dialogue all summer but City did not make their first formal offer of £50m until Tuesday.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He's done a lot worse, Mounrinho won plenty of trophies at Chelsea, then he lost his job (and it happens to the best of them), Mourinho did this for one season before he lost his job, Wenger has been doing this for over a decade, he's made the fans turn against the club....when has that happened at Chelsea?

Would rather have had Wenger doing what Mourinho do than what Wenger is doing personally, been bored of this stuff for years, nothing enjoyable about this club, same thing can't be said about Chelsea.

If Wenger had done what Mourinho had done we'd be fucked for years

Despite your whinging about how bad things are going to be, if Wenger goes at the end of the season provided a proper managerial structure is put in place I think we would see immediate dividends. Wenger is fucking his own legacy and it's incredibly frustrating to watch what an embarassment we are becoming.
Despite the club seemingly being run by Capachan Monkeys, we still do have a squad where a good manager could be getting far more out of them than l'ouisseau is.

[Niall_Quinn]

Plus in all honesty what good would it do?

Do you honestly expect him to come up with a satisfactory answer to the questions?

If someone says why don't you quit or why doesn't the owner sack you? What would you expect him to say? I quite agree with you.

Neville set a whole bunch of terms before agreeing to appear. Wenger could do the same. Even if it was another stale event, at least he'd be in the company of some of the people that give a shit about the club.

Not one of the fuckers at this club have come out and spoken to the fans after the calamity on Sunday and the shambles yesterday. Too fucking cowardly. Nothing to do with it being beneath them.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Little tidbit that escaped into the media this morning, regarding Alexis:

Must have been a shit conversation

[Niall_Quinn]

If Wenger had done what Mourinho had done we'd be fucked for years

Despite your whinging about how bad things are going to be, if Wenger goes at the end of the season provided a proper managerial structure is put in place I think we would see immediate dividends. Wenger is fucking his own legacy and it's incredibly frustrating to watch what an embarassment we are becoming.
Despite the club seemingly being run by Capachan Monkeys, we still do have a squad where a good manager could be getting far more out of them than l'ouisseau is.

Trouble is, Stan won't even concede this self evident, face smacking, cold water bucket, fucking simple reality.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Neville set a whole bunch of terms before agreeing to appear. Wenger could do the same. Even if it was another stale event, at least he'd be in the company of some of the people that give a shit about the club.

Not one of the fuckers at this club have come out and spoken to the fans after the calamity on Sunday and the shambles yesterday. Too fucking cowardly. Nothing to do with it being beneath them.

As I've said with Wenger it would be totally pointless. The only thing fans want from him is his resignation. There is nothing he can say that's going to square how badly he's been doing his job.

And of course they are cowards.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Trouble is, Stan won't even concede this self evident, face smacking, cold water bucket, fucking simple reality.

Why would he?

If it's not having any huge detriment into this slice of his portfolio why would he give a fuck, he's 4,000 miles away.

Sacking Wenger would mean he has to get personally involved

[Niall_Quinn]

Why would he?

If it's not having any huge detriment into this slice of his portfolio why would he give a fuck, he's 4,000 miles away.

Sacking Wenger would mean he has to get personally involved

We should declare war on America. Then Stan's assets could be seized and Wenger could be done for trading with the enemy.

[Özim]

If Wenger had done what Mourinho had done we'd be fucked for years

Despite your whinging about how bad things are going to be, if Wenger goes at the end of the season provided a proper managerial structure is put in place I think we would see immediate dividends. Wenger is fucking his own legacy and it's incredibly frustrating to watch what an embarassment we are becoming.
Despite the club seemingly being run by Capachan Monkeys, we still do have a squad where a good manager could be getting far more out of them than l'ouisseau is.

With all due respect that total nonsense, that's just your hatred for Mourinho coming out.

Chelsea recovered quickly, not because they are owned by a Billionaire (we're owned by two, one who is richer than Abhramovic) but because the brought a top manager in to replace him quickly.

Replacing Wenger won't be quite as easy, he'll probably choose his successor and move upstairs to make sure he's pulling the strings. It's ironic you say we'd be screwed if that had happened to us, the reality is we are screwed thanks to Wenger, this club isn't in a good place and won't be for a long time and that's largely thanks to Wenger. Our squad is very much overrated, we have some good players yes but if a new manager comes in he would have a fair amout of work to do, new defence, changing the style of play and some midfielders, getting rid of dead wood,new tactics, new coaches, new scouts, new youth setup, new medical team.....he'll have to start again in many ways to get rid of that losing mentality that has been around for over a decade.

Wengers legacy will be failure and how to spin it as success and leaving this club in a horrible state by overstaying his welcome by a decade.

[Niall_Quinn]

Anyway, that's enough Arsenal for now. Too much of a good thing, and all.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Nah just get some crowd funding going with St Louis fans to hire an Assassin via the deep web

Someone whose happy to be paid in bit coins.

[Özim]

As I've said with Wenger it would be totally pointless. The only thing fans want from him is his resignation. There is nothing he can say that's going to square how badly he's been doing his job.

And of course they are cowards.

Yes and answers to all the questions we never get an answer to to try and make some sense of the nonsense.

I'd go as far as saying he owes it to the fans and would get more respect for facing people, there's no repercussions for anyone at this club, they can just get on and do whatever they want and nothing will ever happen, quite sad really and for every possible action someone comes up with a reason not to do it, so basically people are just accept nothing can be done, so they have to put up and shut up, sad state of affairs because that doesn't have to be the case.

Every problem has a solution at the end of the day and you'll never know if it works unless you try, that suggestion of boycotting would be very bad press for the club, I understand many have already paid but bad press still affects you in other ways, sponsorship deals etc as nobody wants to be associated with a team with a negative outlook.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

With all due respect that total nonsense, that's just your hatred for Mourinho coming out.

Chelsea recovered quickly, not because they are owned by a Billionaire (we're owned by two, one who is richer than Abhramovic) but because the brought a top manager in to replace him quickly.

Replacing Wenger won't be quite as easy, he'll probably choose his successor and move upstairs to make sure he's pulling the strings. It's ironic you say we'd be screwed if that had happened to us, the reality is we are screwed thanks to Wenger, this club isn't in a good place and won't be for a long time and that's largely thanks to Wenger. Our squad is very much overrated, we have some good players yes but if a new manager comes in he would have a fair amout of work to do, new defence, changing the style of play and some midfielders, getting rid of dead wood,new tactics, new coaches, new scouts, new youth setup, new medical team.....he'll have to start again in many ways to get rid of that losing mentality that has been around for over a decade.

Wengers legacy will be failure and how to spin it as success and leaving this club in a horrible state by overstaying his welcome by a decade.

Chelsea got a top manager in because they are a billionaire club

No your nonsense is shaped by your hatred of Wenger. Your argument is based on supposition of what would happen when Wenger goes. It's not likely to be a clean amicable break so its incredibly unlikely he will be retained in any capacity or have a hand in naming a successor.

A club with our infrastructure could absolutely take it in commercially in a way that we aren't at the moment because of Wenger. Media stories about us are ephemeral and the same stories have been written about United, Chelsea and Liverpool in the recent past.

You go on about other fans thinking the club didn't exist before Wenger, yet you show evidence of that yourself when you call him one of the worst managers we've ever had. A statement which shows a shocking lack of knowledge about the clubs history.

We are a big club acting like a mid table club with our current mentality. And that has to change.

Wenger is eroding everything good he's achieved and should have gone in 2014.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yes and answers to all the questions we never get an answer to to try and make some sense of the nonsense.

I'd go as far as saying he owes it to the fans and would get more respect for facing people, there's no repercussions for anyone at this club, they can just get on and do whatever they want and nothing will ever happen, quite sad really and for every possible action someone comes up with a reason not to do it, so basically people are just accept nothing can be done, so they have to put up and shut up, sad state of affairs because that doesn't have to be the case.

Every problem has a solution at the end of the day and you'll never know if it works unless you try, that suggestion of boycotting would be very bad press for the club, I understand many have already paid but bad press still affects you in other ways, sponsorship deals etc as nobody wants to be associated with a team with a negative outlook.

Again I don't get what you're after

Rightly or wrongly (and in most ways rightly) you already believe in your own head that this has been the result of sheer incompetence, hubris and complacency. The evidence tends to point to that, so what on earth do you expect to hear from Wenger? Do you honestly believe he's going to accept that assessment and not try to spin his way out of it?.

It seems to me you're more looking for a figurative punchbag for your own frustrations

I don't give a fuck about recriminations. I just want him to go. Anything else is unnecessary

And yeah I'd like Gazidis, Keswick and others to follow him once the dust has settled.

There's no explanation any of them will give you that's not self serving. They haven't done anything criminal, or wasted public money......therefore this public tribunal you seem to want seems utterly pointless.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And maybe in principle someone from the club should speak to fans but Gazidis?

The guy is an utter spin merchant. There's nothing he could say that id be prepared to believe.

[Özim]

Chelsea got a top manager in because they are a billionaire club

No your nonsense is shaped by your hatred of Wenger. Your argument is based on supposition of what would happen when Wenger goes. It's not likely to be a clean amicable break so its incredibly unlikely he will be retained in any capacity or have a hand in naming a successor.

A club with our infrastructure could absolutely take it in commercially in a way that we aren't at the moment because of Wenger. Media stories about us are ephemeral and the same stories have been written about United, Chelsea and Liverpool in the recent past.

You go on about other fans thinking the club didn't exist before Wenger, yet you show evidence of that yourself when you call him one of the worst managers we've ever had. A statement which shows a shocking lack of knowledge about the clubs history.

We are a big club acting like a mid table club with our current mentality. And that has to change.

Wenger is eroding everything good he's achieved and should have gone in 2014.

Not at all any big club can, we could easily.

Not at all, I don't like Wenger (for obvious reasons, which most people are starting to see now) there's nothing to like about him in a football sense.

Wenger didn't build this club, he's been here 20 years (13 of this rubbish) and won some trophies, trouble is he stopped winning, changed everything about the club and turned the football into this rubbish we have to watch every week, he's not even competitive anymore and hasn't been for years, the way the club is now is horrendous, like I said barely a football club. The 1st 7 years of his career cannot erase the following 13 years of misery, I'd say the 13 years can erase the 7 years however, 2/3 of his time here has been littered with failure.

I do think he is one of the worst managers we ever had, everything considered, at no point has this club been so disconnected from the fans, they've made it clear they don't care and won't listen to a thing, they've made it clear losing is success and yes that is 100% down to Wenger he's turned us into a bunch of losers, at least before we aimed for success, now we aim for being 2nd rate, that's what's shocking!

We're a 2nd tier club now in every way but financially, but comercially we're less attractive than many of the other top clubs due to our losers mentality, non brand wants to be paying through the nose to be associated with a bunch of losers.

[Özim]

Again I don't get what you're after

Rightly or wrongly (and in most ways rightly) you already believe in your own head that this has been the result of sheer incompetence, hubris and complacency. The evidence tends to point to that, so what on earth do you expect to hear from Wenger? Do you honestly believe he's going to accept that assessment and not try to spin his way out of it?.

It seems to me you're more looking for a figurative punchbag for your own frustrations

I don't give a fuck about recriminations. I just want him to go. Anything else is unnecessary

And yeah I'd like Gazidis, Keswick and others to follow him once the dust has settled.

There's no explanation any of them will give you that's not self serving. They haven't done anything criminal, or wasted public money......therefore this public tribunal you seem to want seems utterly pointless.

He's not leaving, probably won't leave in 2 years time either, reckon he'll sign another contract then, the only way that will change is an empty stadium. That can be achieved but some people genuinely believe that others will fill their seats, didn't happen last season when some fans decided to stay away as a protest, granted it wasn't a huge amount of people, but if people did this on a mass scale you can bet your bottom dollar the club would take note.

Will never happen though, too many people believe other people will take their place, considering this club wins nothing of note, I doubt it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The club in terms of potential is far, far bigger than it was when he took over.

The club has performed far, far more consistently in terms of league positioning and trophy acquisition since he took over. He's an absolute dinosaur. But football is a global brand and times have changed and that disconnection between fans and the club exists everywhere in top tier football.

Chelsea are a billionaire club and thus can get in a top manager after finishing in mid table, I'm not sure that's true of Arsenal. And if we fall that far, than the club and the manager has truly fucked us over but until then.

He's stayed too long, been allowed to exist in a bubble and buy into his own hype. A situation which has been left unchecked for so long it's brought us to this and will get worse if not dealt with soon.

But this club did need the stability Wenger brought when we moved to a new stadium, it wasn't exciting for fans. The big problem is we've come out the other side and the club has decided it owes eternal gratitude to this man in an ever changing football landscape.

The expectations you have that have been shat on are a result of Wenger managing this club whether you want to accept it or not. Did he do it single handedly? No it was him and Dein and Friar and Fiszman and Edelman working as a team.

That team has all gone and Wenger has absurdly taken it all on himself, whilst paper tigers like Gazidis give empty platitudes to the fans.

[selassie]

And maybe in principle someone from the club should speak to fans but Gazidis?

The guy is an utter spin merchant. There's nothing he could say that id be prepared to believe.

Gazidis has about as much authority as you or me when it comes to making decisions at Arsenal, I don't even know why he is there.

[rodders]

One of the major problems when a club is in decline as we undoubtedly are , is that fans of the future will tend to follow those clubs that are successful and thus over a period of time the fan base is eroded.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He's not leaving, probably won't leave in 2 years time either, reckon he'll sign another contract then, the only way that will change is an empty stadium. That can be achieved but some people genuinely believe that others will fill their seats, didn't happen last season when some fans decided to stay away as a protest, granted it wasn't a huge amount of people, but if people did this on a mass scale you can bet your bottom dollar the club would take note.

Will never happen though, too many people believe other people will take their place, considering this club wins nothing of note, I doubt it.

A club that still relies on corporate sponsorship of its brand both here and globally won't long put up with a stadium in revolt week in, week out. The protests against Wenger have got bigger and louder in the past two-three years. Whilst fans didn't want him hounded out last season, most did not want him to stay....and if the types of result that we saw at Anfield carry on they will lose sympathy.
Despite the banners and the protests things didn't properly turn last season....it's on the trajectory to. No manager no matter what the club can survive a fan base fully turning.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Chelsea got a top manager in because they are a billionaire club

No your nonsense is shaped by your hatred of Wenger. Your argument is based on supposition of what would happen when Wenger goes. It's not likely to be a clean amicable break so its incredibly unlikely he will be retained in any capacity or have a hand in naming a successor.

A club with our infrastructure could absolutely take it in commercially in a way that we aren't at the moment because of Wenger. Media stories about us are ephemeral and the same stories have been written about United, Chelsea and Liverpool in the recent past.

You go on about other fans thinking the club didn't exist before Wenger, yet you show evidence of that yourself when you call him one of the worst managers we've ever had. A statement which shows a shocking lack of knowledge about the clubs history.

We are a big club acting like a mid table club with our current mentality. And that has to change.

Wenger is eroding everything good he's achieved and should have gone in 2014.

:gp:

Wenger's destroying his legacy with every passing day he remains at the club but let's not be churlish about revising history to ignore all the good he's done in the past for the club - he's essentially built the modern day Arsenal, a financially successful mega club with a global fanbase.


I know like everyone else you're upset with Wenger especially after Sunday and want him gone Zim, but don't let your longstanding hateboner for him cause you to make ridiculous points.

[Power n Glory]

And maybe in principle someone from the club should speak to fans but Gazidis?

The guy is an utter spin merchant. There's nothing he could say that id be prepared to believe.

To Ivan’s credit, he’s gone on AFTV and spoken with Robbie, he’s met with Le Grove and spoken to the people there too. He often takes the tough questions at the AST meetings and laid to rest some myths about our finances and budget. I’ve been reading Le Grove for years and criticism about our structure on how far behind we are as a modern club, our poor injury record, needing to upgrade the staff, needing to invest in new technology….structural changes have started to happen around the club. They’re just not utilised well. This is why I give some sort of credit to Gazidis. But I’ve seen and heard the criticism about how outdated we are, especially on Le Grove, and something has been done about it. It’s not just empty words.

But unfortunately, he can’t give the final decision on Wenger. I think we’ve seen how far his influence has stretched. It would be easy to just ignore the Le Grove and AFTV’s but there is some sort of engagement and follow up action after. It's not all spin.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't know I just think he's all talk. If you take the things he's come out with and weigh it against what happens. It's all pure PR, as soon as fans talk to Gazidis they think "it's ok this guy has our back". Only for the same shit to happen again. Now even if I accept he's totally powerless to prevent it, how much money is your self respect worth to come out with the obsequious nonsense he did after his catalyst for change remarks were shown to be a load of insubstantial guff.

He's not stupid not by any means, I think he knows how to beguile people. But after a while of this you have to say "don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining"

[Niall_Quinn]

:gp:

Wenger's destroying his legacy with every passing day he remains at the club but let's not be churlish about revising history to ignore all the good he's done in the past for the club - he's essentially built the modern day Arsenal, a financially successful mega club with a global fanbase.


I know like everyone else you're upset with Wenger especially after Sunday and want him gone Zim, but don't let your longstanding hateboner for him cause you to make ridiculous points.

Arsenal fans built the modern day club. As did chav fans. As did Liverpudlians. And did Mancs.

The fans built these clubs through the tsunami of inflation, the slavishly devoted merchandising, the monthly subscriptions and the continued interest in an age where attention spans measure seconds and fashions are outdated the day after.

Yes. Vampires swept in to capitalise and orgainise for their own benefit. They added the razzmatazz and the spinning graphics and the wall to wall coverage, the controversy and the endless supply of hooks and bait to keep the engagement at a fever pitch.

But let's never pretend these cunts ever invested a penny of their own money and let's never pretend any of the cunts care a jot about the clubs they sponge off. With a very, very few exceptions, including the much maligned but now, I think, better understood Abramovich - who is still trash, of course. Except not as trashy as cunts like Kroenke or Gazidis or the biggest cunt of them all, Wenger. Wenger. The icon of principle who sold it all for the corporate vision. The worst of the worst, the lowest of the lowest. Fucking, fucking cunt of a bloke.

But they are nothing without the fans. Whatever they imagine. Get rid of the fans and see what they have. Hence their hype, hence their lies, hence their empty promises. Squeeze and suck and bleed everything that has a pulse. That's what these "built the modern game" cunt leeches are.

WE built the fucking modern game. Much to our shame. But credit where credit is due and no credit to those who don't deserve an ounce of it. Fuck them.

[Power n Glory]

I don't know I just think he's all talk. If you take the things he's come out with and weigh it against what happens. It's all pure PR, as soon as fans talk to Gazidis they think "it's ok this guy has our back". Only for the same shit to happen again. Now even if I accept he's totally powerless to prevent it, how much money is your self respect worth to come out with the obsequious nonsense he did after his catalyst for change remarks were shown to be a load of insubstantial guff.

He's not stupid not by any means, I think he knows how to beguile people. But after a while of this you have to say "don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining"

But what are you weighing up in terms of words and actions? You also have to be savvy enough to know he's not going to throw his employers under the bus when speaking to fans. But let's look at the changes.

1 - Before Ivan and when we were reliant on Wenger to speak, he was coy about our finances and allude to us ending up like Leeds Utd despite war chest stories.

- Since Ivan has started speaking nobody believes we're close to going broke and we have way more clarity about what we can afford. All talk of us having to pay off the stadium is dead.

2 - Our injury record. Everyone complained and wondered what was going on. Le Grove would pull the stats on how many injuries we'd get and publish them on the site.

- We've recently employed Darren Burgess as well as Shad Forsythe.

3 - Plenty of complaints about our scouts and not finding the right players.

- New scouts appointed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/12104189/Arsenal-raid-Leicester-for-highly-rated-scout-who-helped-sign-Riyad-Mahrez-and-NGolo-Kante.html

4 - Contract talks taking too long.

- New lawyers added to team.

We've already have a conversation about Andries Jonker who was appointed as head of the youth academy. I remember Le Grove saying when we first appointed this guy that this could have been Ivan's power play and Wenger's successor. He's not far off considering Jonker is now manager of Wolfsburg. Also, considering the fact that Jonker had Ljunberg as his assistant and wanted Henry as a coach too, that looked like a team for a potential coup. But we know how that went. Jonker was undermined and Henry wasn't allowed to join the set up. But this is all just a theory. But it doesn't change the fact that we've tried to add more footballers to our set up. Jens Lehman is the latest installment and we'll see how that works out. But that has to come from Ivan and Le Grove has torn the backroom staff to shreds in some of his posts.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gazidis has about as much authority as you or me when it comes to making decisions at Arsenal, I don't even know why he is there.

tbf, it's usually a redeeming sign when you end up with no authority. Or the signature of a eunuch, one or the other. What is Gazidis? If the former, at least he's tried to get off his knees. If the latter, well he's one of many - it's normal.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

But what are you weighing up in terms of words and actions? You also have to be savvy enough to know he's not going to throw his employers under the bus when speaking to fans. But let's look at the changes.

1 - Before Ivan and when we were reliant on Wenger to speak, he was coy about our finances and allude to us ending up like Leeds Utd despite war chest stories.

- Since Ivan has started speaking nobody believes we're close to going broke and we have way more clarity about what we can afford. All talk of us having to pay off the stadium is dead.

2 - Our injury record. Everyone complained and wondered what was going on. Le Grove would pull the stats on how many injuries we'd get and publish them on the site.

- We've recently employed Darren Burgess as well as Shad Forsythe.

3 - Plenty of complaints about our scouts and not finding the right players.

- New scouts appointed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/12104189/Arsenal-raid-Leicester-for-highly-rated-scout-who-helped-sign-Riyad-Mahrez-and-NGolo-Kante.html

4 - Contract talks taking too long.

- New lawyers added to team.

We've already have a conversation about Andries Jonker who was appointed as head of the youth academy. I remember Le Grove saying when we first appointed this guy that this could have been Ivan's power play and Wenger's successor. He's not far off considering Jonker is now manager of Wolfsburg. Also, considering the fact that Jonker had Ljunberg as his assistant and wanted Henry as a coach too, that looked like a team for a potential coup. But we know how that went. Jonker was undermined and Henry wasn't allowed to join the set up. But this is all just a theory. But it doesn't change the fact that we've tried to add more footballers to our set up. Jens Lehman is the latest installment and we'll see how that works out. But that has to come from Ivan and Le Grove has torn the backroom staff to shreds in some of his posts.

I'm sorry but if Shad Forsythe and Jonker are all you have your sleeve to suggest this guy is a genius operator that's being constrained by the machinations of the Wenger and Kroenke bromance you've all your work ahead of you.

In 2014, it would have been clear to Harvey Price that we needed to address what was going on with us with injuries let alone an average CEO

Same with a youth team that clearly wasn't producing anywhere near the kind of potential it had been.

No one is suggesting Gazidis would have been throwing his bosses under the bus by being a bit circumspect with his statements but it seems abundantly clear to me that he was making a lot of grandiose promises one moment and even as you've suggested yourself completely contradicting himself the next moment with the kind of warnings George Osbourne used to make about us turning into Greece.

Now actually that statement was directly contradicted by Wenger a few days later who said he was being alarmist. So it's not just like he's towing the party line either.

I think unfortunately the business world is full of people who talk a good game, but when it comes down to brass tacks they are gimps.

In conclusion though we aren't going to agree on this. I think Gazidis is largely a waste of space. However I would add as a caveat that if Wengers departure is hastened by results on the pitch, he may get ample opportunity to prove me wrong because as I've said the responsibility to bring in a new guy and a new management structure will fall squarely on him.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

tbf, it's usually a redeeming sign when you end up with no authority. Or the signature of a eunuch, one or the other. What is Gazidis? If the former, at least he's tried to get off his knees. If the latter, well he's one of many - it's normal.

I would say he's more of a gimp than a eunuch.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm sorry but if Shad Forsythe and Jonker are all you have your sleeve to suggest this guy is a genius operator that's being constrained by the machinations of the Wenger and Kroenke bromance you've all your work ahead of you.

In 2014, it would have been clear to Harvey Price that we needed to address what was going on with us with injuries let alone an average CEO

Same with a youth team that clearly wasn't producing anywhere near the kind of potential it had been.

No one is suggesting Gazidis would have been throwing his bosses under the boss by being a bit circumspect with his statements but it seems abundantly clear to me that he was making a lot of grandiose promises one moment and even as you've suggested yourself completely contradicting himself the next moment with the kind of warnings George Osbourne used to make about us turning into Greece.

Now actually that statement was directly contradicted by Wenger a few days later who said he was being alarmist. So it's not just like he's towing the party line either.

I think unfortunately the business world is full of people who talk a good game, but when it comes down to brass tacks they are gimps.

In conclusion though we aren't going to agree on this. I think Gazidis is largely a waste of space. However I would add as a caveat that if Wengers departure is hastened by results on the pitch, he may get ample opportunity to prove me wrong because as I've said the responsibility to bring in a new guy and a new management structure will fall squarely on him.

And yet, there's NO FUCKING WAY that 92 mill bid was made by Wenger yesterday. No fucking way. That's not to say it was a good bid. 92 mill for a 50 mill player, GTFO. But there are two chains of command in the club right now, that much is evident. One is the normal working of any corporation, the other is Wenger crying to Stan.

[Letters]

Yes I think our squad is bang average bar a few players, defence is rubbish, midfield is lacking in areas, up front happier now we have Lacazette, no captains or leaders on top of that.
Agree about the captain situation and the defence is certainly dodgy but overall, they're not average are they? Average in what way? They're one of the best squads in the country. You say "5th is nowhere" but is it where an "average" squad would finish? especially with a manager who doesn't seem to be getting the best out of them. And the season before that they finished 2nd. This squad is not perfect but it is not average in relation to the league we play in.


We're a big club, for a big club like us to get relegated takes an absolute disaster to be honest

Agreed, but after the Liverpool debacle you said:


everything about [the club] is a disaster, the transfers, the contracts, the injuries, the style of football, the quality of the squad, the tactics, youth team, the results, the manager.

And yet last season was the first year we finished outside the top 4 under Wenger and 3 of the last 4 years we've won a trophy. There's a lot wrong at Arsenal but you always exaggerate. :shrug:

5th IS failure for a club or our size...although some would say we're only at that size and have that level of expectation because of Wenger. Not me, obviously :d

As I said elsewhere at more length, the problem with Wenger is that when he came in he was revolutionary and raised us to a level I'd never thought I'd see Arsenal be at. But you can't stay revolutionary, if you stay still while others catch up and surpass you then you start to look like a has been. But revisionism about the early days is like saying Paul McCartney didn't write any good Beatles songs because you hate The Frog Song.

[Letters]

I know like everyone else you're upset with Wenger especially after Sunday and want him gone Zim, but don't let your longstanding hateboner for him cause you to make ridiculous points.
:lol:

And for Zim to say it's been 7 years good and 13 years bad is a ridiculous over-simplification.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Arsenal fans built the modern day club. As did chav fans. As did Liverpudlians. And did Mancs.

The fans built these clubs through the tsunami of inflation, the slavishly devoted merchandising, the monthly subscriptions and the continued interest in an age where attention spans measure seconds and fashions are outdated the day after.

Yes. Vampires swept in to capitalise and orgainise for their own benefit. They added the razzmatazz and the spinning graphics and the wall to wall coverage, the controversy and the endless supply of hooks and bait to keep the engagement at a fever pitch.


And a good chunk of the current fanbase (especially overseas) who pump money into the club, started supporting the club due the success brought by Wenger in the late 90's/early 00's.

Without the success he generated then, it wouldn't have been as easy to modernise the club (new training ground, stadium etc), improve our global reputation & appeal and to consequently attract large corporate sponsors.




But let's never pretend these cunts ever invested a penny of their own money and let's never pretend any of the cunts care a jot about the clubs they sponge off. With a very, very few exceptions, including the much maligned but now, I think, better understood Abramovich - who is still trash, of course. Except not as trashy as cunts like Kroenke or Gazidis or the biggest cunt of them all, Wenger. Wenger. The icon of principle who sold it all for the corporate vision. The worst of the worst, the lowest of the lowest. Fucking, fucking cunt of a bloke.

I imagine this will evoke howls of fury & derision from you but I genuinely believe that unlike a shithead like Kroenke, Wenger does passionately love the club. Even right now.

It's more that he's deluded himself into believing that he still has capabilities & knowhow to fix the problems and to make Arsenal great again (tm). #MAGA And with no authority figure to keep him in check at the club tell him otherwise he'll continue to believe that. He's a fool, but at least he's an honest fool.

I mean if he really didn't care it would be incredibly easy for him to walk away. It's clear he's not in it for the money - I mean he's already earned more money then he'd be capable of spending in the years he has left alive and he doesn't have any financial dependents to provide for. He suffers barrages of abuse and ridicule from the fans and the media and still puts up with daily and comes into work every day because he feels he can still do the job.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

:lol:

And for Zim to say it's been 7 years good and 13 years bad is a ridiculous over-simplification.

Wasn't Zim (or Zimmerman FC) moaning about Wenger & Gilberto back during the invincible era back on the old BBC 606 boards? :lol:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Wasn't Zim (or Zimmerman FC) moaning about Wenger & Gilberto back during the invincible era back on the old BBC 606 boards? :lol:

Constantly.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Can't even remember my 606 name

Might have been this, might have been something else

Does anyone remember Mad Dog, borderline sociopath?

[Niall_Quinn]

Can't even remember my 606 name

Might have been this, might have been something else

Does anyone remember Mad Dog, borderline sociopath?

I can't stand borderline sociopaths, nor anyone that can't commit.

[Niall_Quinn]

And a good chunk of the current fanbase (especially overseas) who pump money into the club, started supporting the club due the success brought by Wenger in the late 90's/early 00's.

Without the success he generated then, it wouldn't have been as easy to modernise the club (new training ground, stadium etc), improve our global reputation & appeal and to consequently attract large corporate sponsors.




I imagine this will evoke howls of fury & derision from you but I genuinely believe that unlike a shithead like Kroenke, Wenger does passionately love the club. Even right now.

It's more that he's deluded himself into believing that he still has capabilities & knowhow to fix the problems and to make Arsenal great again (tm). #MAGA And with no authority figure to keep him in check at the club tell him otherwise he'll continue to believe that. He's a fool, but at least he's an honest fool.

I mean if he really didn't care it would be incredibly easy for him to walk away. It's clear he's not in it for the money - I mean he's already earned more money then he'd be capable of spending in the years he has left alive and he doesn't have any financial dependents to provide for. He suffers barrages of abuse and ridicule from the fans and the media and still puts up with daily and comes into work every day because he feels he can still do the job.

You mean a good chunk of the Wenger cultists? Fuck them, tbf. I'm talking about real fans.

Wenger loves this club? Show me the proof and compare it to the reality.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Nah just get some crowd funding going with St Louis fans to hire an Assassin via the deep web

Someone whose happy to be paid in bit coins.

Probably safer making the arrangements on GW.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wasn't Zim (or Zimmerman FC) moaning about Wenger & Gilberto back during the invincible era back on the old BBC 606 boards? :lol:

Yes.

Yes he was.

[Letters]

And this is why Zim can fuck right off if he thinks he's been vindicated.
He's been whining forever. It's what he does.
Whineo Ergo Sum is the Zim family motto.
Now we finally have something worth whining about he's all "told you!". Oh piss off.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

You mean a good chunk of the Wenger cultists? Fuck them, tbf. I'm talking about real fans.


Oh for god sake NQ, you don't need to have lived on Avenell road for your entire life or have been initiated by parents & grandparents who were Arsenal Season Ticket Holders in the past be a "real fan".

A lot of kids and overseas fans of football, who weren't affiliated with a club at the time, became enamoured with The Arsenal and chose to support them based on the success generated by Wenger during the late 90's and 00's. That's how it is - success generates new fans especially during an era where the PL has exploded in popularity. Most of these fans will continue to support the club for the rest of their lives and even get their offspring to do so and it's partly the growth of these fans that have helped contribute to making the club the mega global brand it is these days.

And it has nothing to with them being Wenger cultists - heck most of them I've seen are on the same page as you and I and want Wenger out. Whereas you get people like geoffarsenal (the guy on that podcast) who's been a Londoner all his life and supported the club for decades, who is one of the biggest Wenger champions around.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

And this is why Zim can fuck right off if he thinks he's been vindicated.
He's been whining forever. It's what he does.
Whineo Ergo Sum is the Zim family motto.
Now we finally have something worth whining about he's all "told you!". Oh piss off.

It also doesn't help the cause.

One of the reasons the BSM weren't taken seriously in their early days despite them warning about Kroenke and the direction of the club before the shit really hit the fan was that you had people like Zim in their midst who were just full with venomous hatred for the manager, saying ridiculous hyperbolic stuff like ...... "Wenger is the worst manager in Arsenal history" or "Wenger couldn't manage a pub team" ......... so you had a lot of average Arsenal fans thinking they were just nutters.

People just don't do nuance anymore.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think in fairness as fans we've had legitimate grievance to one extent or another for the last ten years

From I wish we'd stop bottle jobbing it when it comes to the crunch, why doesn't he fix the obvious deficiencies in the squad, I know we are operating on a budget but do we really not have a pot to piss in when it comes to transfers.

Now we are going backward, our football is terrible, defeats are more and more predictable, one crisis after another, an absentee owner who our only hope of seeing the back of is selling our souls to the vile gangster Alisher the Hutt.

The board are shown to be puppets to a manager losing touch with reality, a fanbase in civil war that's only unified now in agreeing this is a fucking tsunami of diarroeah.

Zim seems to think now he has to up the ante with "No I hate Wenger more". Holding him in about the same regard the Swift family do Sidney Cook.

He seems to me to sustain himself on indignation and negativity

The kind of guy who'll find a girl of his dreams and then just drone on and on about how she's going to leave him until she does making it a self fufilling prophecy.

Is he right about a lot of his criticisms, yes but he acts like it's an epiphany that only he had the presience to see when in fact most of us have been saying the same thing just not taking it to ridiculous extremes as a kind of doom mungering one upmanship

[Letters]

People just don't do nuance anymore.
This is one of my big problems with this place. Too many people have lost any objectivity or ability to see things in anything other than a completely black or white way.

PS: If any of you can remember your logins to the old place, a QED of my previous post is this thread from January 2006, a mere 18 months after The Invincibles, in which Zim started a thread about Wenger.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersweb/index.php?showtopic=1692&hl=

[GP]

This is one of my big problems with this place. Too many people have lost any objectivity or ability to see things in anything other than a completely black or white way.

PS: If any of you can remember your logins to the old place, a QED of my previous post is this thread from January 2006, a mere 18 months after The Invincibles, in which Zim started a thread about Wenger.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersweb/index.php?showtopic=1692&hl=


The best kids tend to come through our ranks like Gilbert!

:haha: Classic

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

This is one of my big problems with this place. Too many people have lost any objectivity or ability to see things in anything other than a completely black or white way.

PS: If any of you can remember your logins to the old place, a QED of my previous post is this thread from January 2006, a mere 18 months after The Invincibles, in which Zim started a thread about Wenger.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersweb/index.php?showtopic=1692&hl=

In fairness whilst you had the run to the champions league final, that wasn't an enjoyable season. If we went 1-0 down away from home, you could blow for full time because even if they scored in the first ten minutes we'd never get back into the game.
We accepted it as a transitional season. But largely it was one of many.

Of course it can seem overblown to say you've lost faith in someone eighteen months after the unbeaten season. But there wasn't a lot to be positive about around the time he wrote that, if I remember we had Blackburn above us in the table in February.

[Power n Glory]

I'm sorry but if Shad Forsythe and Jonker are all you have your sleeve to suggest this guy is a genius operator that's being constrained by the machinations of the Wenger and Kroenke bromance you've all your work ahead of you.

In 2014, it would have been clear to Harvey Price that we needed to address what was going on with us with injuries let alone an average CEO

Same with a youth team that clearly wasn't producing anywhere near the kind of potential it had been.

No one is suggesting Gazidis would have been throwing his bosses under the bus by being a bit circumspect with his statements but it seems abundantly clear to me that he was making a lot of grandiose promises one moment and even as you've suggested yourself completely contradicting himself the next moment with the kind of warnings George Osbourne used to make about us turning into Greece.

Now actually that statement was directly contradicted by Wenger a few days later who said he was being alarmist. So it's not just like he's towing the party line either.

I think unfortunately the business world is full of people who talk a good game, but when it comes down to brass tacks they are gimps.

In conclusion though we aren't going to agree on this. I think Gazidis is largely a waste of space. However I would add as a caveat that if Wengers departure is hastened by results on the pitch, he may get ample opportunity to prove me wrong because as I've said the responsibility to bring in a new guy and a new management structure will fall squarely on him.

Already you've gone wrong and just jumped into a counter argument without thinking about what you originally said. Weigh up words vs actions. You always seem to suggest nothing is being done and it's quite clear a lot is going on behind the scenes but it's still not enough to bring the desired results. I didn't suggest he's a genius operator. I don't even care if what he's done is obvious to most people. That's not the argument. The question is, has he tried to do something or has he sat back and ignored the fans concerns. On evidence I see, we have made changes to our set up. If he's all talk we wouldn't see structural changes at all.

You're entitled to your opinion on Gazidis, but if you're going to provide a real counter argument and not just arguing for the sake of it, it would make sense to establish who pushed for these changes at the club and why they haven't been as effective as they should have been. Is it Wenger pushing for these changes? Is it Stan? Again, I haven't argued that it's taken a genius to work out that we need to address these problems, I'm arguing that someone is paying attention to the criticism and trying to address it with action and not just words.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh for god sake NQ, you don't need to have lived on Avenell road for your entire life or have been initiated by parents & grandparents who were Arsenal Season Ticket Holders in the past be a "real fan".

A lot of kids and overseas fans of football, who weren't affiliated with a club at the time, became enamoured with The Arsenal and chose to support them based on the success generated by Wenger during the late 90's and 00's. That's how it is - success generates new fans especially during an era where the PL has exploded in popularity. Most of these fans will continue to support the club for the rest of their lives and even get their offspring to do so and it's partly the growth of these fans that have helped contribute to making the club the mega global brand it is these days.

And it has nothing to with them being Wenger cultists - heck most of them I've seen are on the same page as you and I and want Wenger out. Whereas you get people like geoffarsenal (the guy on that podcast) who's been a Londoner all his life and supported the club for decades, who is one of the biggest Wenger champions around.

Yes, yes, fair enough. Whatever. But you know what I meant, minus the generalities.

But I think there has been a divergence. We now have Arsenal fans and Wenger fans, and the two things aren't the same and it's reaching the point where it's contradictory to claim to be an Arsenal fan if you still support Wenger. And we have fans who are blasé about the whole corporate thing because why? Because it's all they've ever known. I suppose in that respect it's not entirely their fault. I just don't get how mediocrity can be the point of competitive sport and how some people find that reasonable and acceptable. All I know is these people are, wittingly or unwittingly, part of the problem. Probably an even larger obstacle than Wenger and Kroenke themselves, because bastards like that can't survive without complacency and obedience, must like our modern day politicians.

To be honest, I'm not sure I care that much myself anymore. It's not really Arsenal and it's not really Wenger. It's the fact these two things have become identical to every other piece of crap, lying, cheating, stealing, aspect of corporate soaked life. Arenal and Wenger are the focal point, but pretty much everything is fucked up. Complacency drives me nuts. The way complacent cunts can be so reasonable about their absurd ordinariness and cowardice drives me nuts. Is there no fucking excellence anywhere? No pursuit of it? Nothing to rally behind? Are we all free to be fucking average?

I don't know. Can this football club be rescued? Is it worth rescuing? Can it serve any useful purpose in the future or are we kicking against this tidal wave of blandness? Is this it now? Are we accepting it? Are we beaten by it?

Somebody said watch tennis the other day. Goddam, that boring shite. No offence to people who like it, and no offence to the athletes who play, but the cunts sitting around the edge munching their sandwiches? Fuck that.

I miss football and I feel as if Wenger has given it then taken it away. And I guess I fucking hate his living guts for that. Especially as he swapped some of the most marvellous moments imaginable for 30 pieces of corporate silver. I hate the bloke.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is one of my big problems with this place. Too many people have lost any objectivity or ability to see things in anything other than a completely black or white way.

PS: If any of you can remember your logins to the old place, a QED of my previous post is this thread from January 2006, a mere 18 months after The Invincibles, in which Zim started a thread about Wenger.

http://z13.invisionfree.com/goonersweb/index.php?showtopic=1692&hl=

Well stop posting here then.

[Power n Glory]

You mean a good chunk of the Wenger cultists? Fuck them, tbf. I'm talking about real fans.

Wenger loves this club? Show me the proof and compare it to the reality.

I'm sure OJ loved Nicole and that one legged sprinter loved his girlfriend before shooting her to shit. Whatever Wenger feels for the club, it's not healthy.

[Niall_Quinn]

Already you've gone wrong and just jumped into a counter argument without thinking about what you originally said. Weigh up words vs actions. You always seem to suggest nothing is being done and it's quite clear a lot is going on behind the scenes but it's still not enough to bring the desired results. I didn't suggest he's a genius operator. I don't even care if what he's done is obvious to most people. That's not the argument. The question is, has he tried to do something or has he sat back and ignored the fans concerns. On evidence I see, we have made changes to our set up. If he's all talk we wouldn't see structural changes at all.

You're entitled to your opinion on Gazidis, but if you're going to provide a real counter argument and not just arguing for the sake of it, it would make sense to establish who pushed for these changes at the club and why they haven't been as effective as they should have been. Is it Wenger pushing for these changes? Is it Stan? Again, I haven't argued that it's taken a genius to work out that we need to address these problems, I'm arguing that someone is paying attention to the criticism and trying to address it with action and not just words.

Unfortunately, whether Gazidis has been fighting or lying down is neither here nor there in the grand scheme, and I tend to think he has been fighting. The fact he hasn't resigned makes him as bad as Wenger in my book. As soon as that cunt Wenger ran of whining to Stan, Gazidis should have said fine, you want to keep this prick? Well keep him and I'm off. That would have done more for Arsenal in one hit than anything he can do behind the scenes with both arms tied behind his back. How can he possibly put up with this situation, if he is not to some degree at least complicit?

They all need to go. And none of them will go.

[Power n Glory]

And this is why Zim can fuck right off if he thinks he's been vindicated.
He's been whining forever. It's what he does.
Whineo Ergo Sum is the Zim family motto.
Now we finally have something worth whining about he's all "told you!". Oh piss off.

Give it up. You're having resort back to the old 606 board to drag up ancient history. :lol: Does it bother you that much? You have been wrong for a very long time. Accept it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Give it up. You're having resort back to the old 606 board to drag up ancient history. :lol: Does it bother you that much? You have been wrong for a very long time. Accept it.

A Wenger apologist who only dives in to attack the messenger whenever his French fancy man is criticised. The rather transparent disguise is the odd, I wanted him sacked, I wanted him sacked comment. And then everything else is, oh please be reasonable, oh lets wait and see, oh we won the FA Cup, oh we finished 5th, but who can we replace Wenger with, there's nobody, but Wenger built the stadium with his bare hands.

For me, 2006, just after that fuck awful FA Cup final that is was painful and embarrassing to win, where Wenger had turned full coward and sent our warriors out to cower, to find every negative way to stink up the game, that seems about the right moment to be getting on Wenger's case. Unfortunately I'm a stupid cunt and it took me a lot longer to twig. And some still haven't.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why do we even start these transfer threads anyway. It's always a complete waste of time. Even when they do spend money it all goes on dredging machines so they can dig up the likes of Xhaka. Interesting question on that Tuesday Club podcast. How come nobody else ever bids for our transfer targets?

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger told beIN SPORTS about Sanchez's failed move to be reunited with Pep Guardiola: 'It was not very close, it's very difficult for me to speak about that because what I want now is the player to focus on his career, on his season and Arsenal.

'I always think first, make sure that my commitment is at the level that is expected from people paying me and have confidence in me. On the player's side it is exactly the same.'

Not very close? The gypos tell a completely different story and Alexis was sitting with their representatives waiting to sign. That the player we said we were not selling under any circumstances, sitting there waiting to sign after we accepted the gypos bid. The same player it now emerges we were talking with the gypos about for months, always intending to sell.

So Wenger, stop lying you cunt.

"I will not talk about this, except to beIN sports who I whored my arse out to on deadline day when I should have been at work justifying my 10 million quid salary."

The only reason the gypos didn't land their target was because they were relying on the Keystone Cops at our gaff to sign a replacement. We had from Tuesday to do it but we waiting until the bloke was warming up for a fucking world cup qualifier to start the ball rolling.

I take it back. It's better when this bloke doesn't speak because all that comes out of his gob is lies.

[Letters]

Well stop posting here then.

But then I'd have to try and find some real friends :(

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Already you've gone wrong and just jumped into a counter argument without thinking about what you originally said. Weigh up words vs actions. You always seem to suggest nothing is being done and it's quite clear a lot is going on behind the scenes but it's still not enough to bring the desired results. I didn't suggest he's a genius operator. I don't even care if what he's done is obvious to most people. That's not the argument. The question is, has he tried to do something or has he sat back and ignored the fans concerns. On evidence I see, we have made changes to our set up. If he's all talk we wouldn't see structural changes at all.

You're entitled to your opinion on Gazidis, but if you're going to provide a real counter argument and not just arguing for the sake of it, it would make sense to establish who pushed for these changes at the club and why they haven't been as effective as they should have been. Is it Wenger pushing for these changes? Is it Stan? Again, I haven't argued that it's taken a genius to work out that we need to address these problems, I'm arguing that someone is paying attention to the criticism and trying to address it with action and not just words.

Bringing in a couple of coaches, one of whom left the club because he had his hands tied is not evidence of much more than token effort that is not serious structural change.

Maybe he did plot serious structural change behind the scenes, but he got as we both know totally outmanuevered by Wenger. And all you are left is wondering is why someone who is apparently so savvy and talented doesn't have enough self respect to think fine I'm off. Chips Keswick you can understand he knew what the deal was when he stepped in for that old coffin dodger Hill Wood.

[Power n Glory]

Unfortunately, whether Gazidis has been fighting or lying down is neither here nor there in the grand scheme, and I tend to think he has been fighting. The fact he hasn't resigned makes him as bad as Wenger in my book. As soon as that cunt Wenger ran of whining to Stan, Gazidis should have said fine, you want to keep this prick? Well keep him and I'm off. That would have done more for Arsenal in one hit than anything he can do behind the scenes with both arms tied behind his back. How can he possibly put up with this situation, if he is not to some degree at least complicit?

They all need to go. And none of them will go.

How? If you believe he's fighting, don't we need someone pushing for change at that level? If he were to walk, who comes in to replace him? It would be left to Wenger to pick his own boss and he'll pick someone that won't try to challenge him. I'm sure if we left Wenger to do the CEO job, he'd play down our ambitions and attempt to stifle expectations instead of play them up. I wouldn't want to be in a position where the club can claim we have no money left to spend and fans just believe him. They'd still be playing the stadium repayment card if they could.

Also, I think a lot of people are leaning too heavily on this idea that Gazidis should walk as if his pride should be hurt and as if you need integrity for what he does. He's not as bad a Wenger. Not even close. Wenger is an athlete and I've laid out my argument before about why a sportsman like Wenger should walk away from the job. The lack of silverware and not being able to win should crush his professional pride. Gazidis is a suit. It's not the same. He could be a spineless, weasel of a man that only cares about himself and his goals. We've seen plenty of suits like that in the corporate world. But that doesn't mean such people can't do the job that's required of them. They're more than willing to schmooze and scheme their way to the top for self interest. So why would a man with with that sort of character walk away from Arsenal after losing one power battle with Wenger?

Forget the fans. Even if he's only looking out for number one, walking away with a bloody nose doesn't make sense, especially if Wenger's stupid enough to still want to work with him after seeing him try to slip the knife in his back. Walking away may prove a point to some fans, but it might not. I'm sure he'd be accused of cowardice if handing in his notice either way. But the point is, we don't need a nice guy in that role. If he's prepared to look weak one day to come back strong the next, it really doesn't matter if the purpose is to get one over Wenger and get him out.

Again, not saying this is all what I believe him to be, just thinking about the sort of slime that usually operate in that world.

[Power n Glory]

Why do we even start these transfer threads anyway. It's always a complete waste of time. Even when they do spend money it all goes on dredging machines so they can dig up the likes of Xhaka. Interesting question on that Tuesday Club podcast. How come nobody else ever bids for our transfer targets?

They slaughtered Xhaka Khan on the Tuesday Club. All true though. Worth listening to the latest Arseblog podcast. Has Tayo from the Tuesday Club joined along with the yankee, Elliot from Arsenal Vision Podcast. Elliot made some great points from what I've heard so far.

[Power n Glory]

Bringing in a couple of coaches, one of whom left the club because he had his hands tied is not evidence of much more than token effort that is not serious structural change.

Maybe he did plot serious structural change behind the scenes, but he got as we both know totally outmanuevered by Wenger. And all you are left is wondering is why someone who is apparently so savvy and talented doesn't have enough self respect to think fine I'm off. Chips Keswick you can understand he knew what the deal was when he stepped in for that old coffin dodger Hill Wood.

You're not really raising any relevant points or new information. You have no way to back up your points.

If bringing in new coaches isn't serious structural change, remind me of what's been said about Arsenal's backroom staff and men Wenger has kept around? A token move? If it were a token move, Jonker would have stayed on as Head of Youth for the easy money. But instead, he jumped at the opportunity to manage Wolfsburg.

Define serious structural change and how should we go about changing the culture of the club with Wenger in charge and Stan being part of his cult?

[Niall_Quinn]

How? If you believe he's fighting, don't we need someone pushing for change at that level? If he were to walk, who comes in to replace him? It would be left to Wenger to pick his own boss and he'll pick someone that won't try to challenge him. I'm sure if we left Wenger to do the CEO job, he'd play down our ambitions and attempt to stifle expectations instead of play them up. I wouldn't want to be in a position where the club can claim we have no money left to spend and fans just believe him. They'd still be playing the stadium repayment card if they could.

Also, I think a lot of people are leaning too heavily on this idea that Gazidis should walk as if his pride should be hurt and as if you need integrity for what he does. He's not as bad a Wenger. Not even close. Wenger is an athlete and I've laid out my argument before about why a sportsman like Wenger should walk away from the job. The lack of silverware and not being able to win should crush his professional pride. Gazidis is a suit. It's not the same. He could be a spineless, weasel of a man that only cares about himself and his goals. We've seen plenty of suits like that in the corporate world. But that doesn't mean such people can't do the job that's required of them. They're more than willing to schmooze and scheme their way to the top for self interest. So why would a man with with that sort of character walk away from Arsenal after losing one power battle with Wenger?

Forget the fans. Even if he's only looking out for number one, walking away with a bloody nose doesn't make sense, especially if Wenger's stupid enough to still want to work with him after seeing him try to slip the knife in his back. Walking away may prove a point to some fans, but it might not. I'm sure he'd be accused of cowardice if handing in his notice either way. But the point is, we don't need a nice guy in that role. If he's prepared to look weak one day to come back strong the next, it really doesn't matter if the purpose is to get one over Wenger and get him out.

Again, not saying this is all what I believe him to be, just thinking about the sort of slime that usually operate in that world.

I probably overstated it when I said fighting. Dissenting might be closer to the mark.

Why would Gazidis walk rather than weasel his way to the top? Because he's already supposedly at the top. The senior executive at the club. And even with all his weasel ways he ends up impotent. I've seen execs quit just for having their decision questioned in a meeting. The corporate world is all about pecking order and deference. Once the founder has gone you tend to get left with shitty functionaries who know how to steer a ship but wouldn't have the first clue how to build one or repair it when it breaks down. If Gazidis has tried yet failed then that failure has to be judged as absolute. He's demonstrated he'll never have the influence to do anything significant so he's literally pointless. He made his play and came up short, apparently against a saint of a man who loves the club and the people. Yeah right, is that the sort of man who prevails in these confrontations. The dirtiest, shittiest, double dealing scumbag tends to come out on top. Not a pride thing with Gazidis, it's a power thing. Plainly he has none so it would be better to get somebody else in who might be an even bigger cunt than Wenger. Worth a try. Instead they have chosen to present a pathetic unified front, as if their spats in the media never happened. Imagine if Gazidis had said, well I tried but that cunt Wenger won't listen to reason and is against all notion of change, wouldn't that be some pretty nice ammo to pound the two bastards who remain? And of course Gazidis would have to resign if he told the truth. But he wants the cash, he's prepared to admit the job is bigger than him in return for it and that he's Wenger's bitch. His choice. Castrated. Loser. I guess he fits in now.

[Niall_Quinn]

They slaughtered Xhaka Khan on the Tuesday Club. All true though. Worth listening to the latest Arseblog podcast. Has Tayo from the Tuesday Club joined along with the yankee, Elliot from Arsenal Vision Podcast. Elliot made some great points from what I've heard so far.

3 games in a row. Identical mistakes. That's a terminal problem, especially under a manager like Wenger. We paid more for this guy than we initially bid for Lemar. Wenger claims he understand value?

[Niall_Quinn]

But then I'd have to try and find some real friends :(

The only thing we have in common.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Give it up. You're having resort back to the old 606 board to drag up ancient history. :lol: Does it bother you that much? You have been wrong for a very long time. Accept it.

Ancient history includes the same timeframe Zim was talking about?

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Why do we even start these transfer threads anyway. It's always a complete waste of time. Even when they do spend money it all goes on dredging machines so they can dig up the likes of Xhaka. Interesting question on that Tuesday Club podcast. How come nobody else ever bids for our transfer targets?

What like Lemar in this very window? I don't know what people on podcasts are talking about most of the time.

If they mean the players we do buy, Wenger has already got them gooey-eyed by that point somehow, so they aren't going to consider anybody else.

[Power n Glory]

I probably overstated it when I said fighting. Dissenting might be closer to the mark.

Why would Gazidis walk rather than weasel his way to the top? Because he's already supposedly at the top. The senior executive at the club. And even with all his weasel ways he ends up impotent. I've seen execs quit just for having their decision questioned in a meeting. The corporate world is all about pecking order and deference. Once the founder has gone you tend to get left with shitty functionaries who know how to steer a ship but wouldn't have the first clue how to build one or repair it when it breaks down. If Gazidis has tried yet failed then that failure has to be judged as absolute. He's demonstrated he'll never have the influence to do anything significant so he's literally pointless. He made his play and came up short, apparently against a saint of a man who loves the club and the people. Yeah right, is that the sort of man who prevails in these confrontations. The dirtiest, shittiest, double dealing scumbag tends to come out on top. Not a pride thing with Gazidis, it's a power thing. Plainly he has none so it would be better to get somebody else in who might be an even bigger cunt than Wenger. Worth a try. Instead they have chosen to present a pathetic unified front, as if their spats in the media never happened. Imagine if Gazidis had said, well I tried but that cunt Wenger won't listen to reason and is against all notion of change, wouldn't that be some pretty nice ammo to pound the two bastards who remain? And of course Gazidis would have to resign if he told the truth. But he wants the cash, he's prepared to admit the job is bigger than him in return for it and that he's Wenger's bitch. His choice. Castrated. Loser. I guess he fits in now.

Gazidis leaving and making such a statement would get people on here taking but not much else. What's the ammo? Who has the gun? What are they going to do with it? It's a lot of noise and empty threats. The fans and media can play their part but we still need someone inside the club that can actually make a play for Wenger's job. I can't see Wenger and Stan appointing anyone else that could pro ideas a threat to them. There is reason why Henry wasn't allowed to coach here and it makes sense for them to usher Jonker out of the door. That's two members of staff with eyes for a managerial role. It is the opposite of people like Bould who has openly declared that he doesn't want the manager role. That's no ambition.

Also, Ivan hasn't got the top job. It seems like it in name but he doesn't have the influence. This story will develop and we'll continue to hear more information. But from what I can see, Wenger is the one resistant to change and he's managed to fend off potential threats. I don't think he'll survive another two years.

[Power n Glory]

Ancient history includes the same timeframe Zim was talking about?

Zim, like most of us do, bring up old Arsenal related news and occurrences. Letters is spending his time digging out the dead GW site to try and discredit Zim. :lol: He looks ridiculous. Zim can be over the top and extreme with his views but we don't need Letters to dig up old shit to know that.

[Power n Glory]

A Wenger apologist who only dives in to attack the messenger whenever his French fancy man is criticised. The rather transparent disguise is the odd, I wanted him sacked, I wanted him sacked comment. And then everything else is, oh please be reasonable, oh lets wait and see, oh we won the FA Cup, oh we finished 5th, but who can we replace Wenger with, there's nobody, but Wenger built the stadium with his bare hands.

For me, 2006, just after that fuck awful FA Cup final that is was painful and embarrassing to win, where Wenger had turned full coward and sent our warriors out to cower, to find every negative way to stink up the game, that seems about the right moment to be getting on Wenger's case. Unfortunately I'm a stupid cunt and it took me a lot longer to twig. And some still haven't.

:gp: by the way.

Shouldn't Zim and Letters have something to agree on now?

[Niall_Quinn]

What like Lemar in this very window? I don't know what people on podcasts are talking about most of the time.

If they mean the players we do buy, Wenger has already got them gooey-eyed by that point somehow, so they aren't going to consider anybody else.

If he was a real transfer target he'd be signed up. He never was.

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger is a cunt.

[Globalgunner]

Zim, like most of us do, bring up old Arsenal related news and occurrences. Letters is spending his time digging out the dead GW site to try and discredit Zim. :lol: He looks ridiculous. Zim can be over the top and extreme with his views but we don't need Letters to dig up old shit to know that.

Quite impressive how after defending Wenger for years, Letters has found something on Zim that allows him to showcase this debacle of Wengers last 13 years as a victory for him.
LedumbProf himself would be proud. We are truly in an ideal situation.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Letters clearly picked a bad example, as actually for once given what I remember of the time Zim wrote that...it wasn't an unreasonable sentiment to be losing faith in someone who had gone from the unbeaten season to balless defeats peppered everywhere.

The broader point is that Zim seems to dine out on his exaggerations. And it's hard not to roll your eyes at times.

We all reached our conclusions about Wenger at different times, I reached mine in 2011.

Even now I still don't hate Wenger, I resent him for what he's doing being so selfish and arrogant. We've always been known as a team that "didn't like it up em". But now on top of that actual spineless capitulations and shockingly bad football which fans are paying a premium for.

He isn't stupid it's not that he doesn't recognise that. He just won't do anything to fix it because everything has to be done his way and he doesn't want to challenge his players.

If he was as tough and ruthless with his players as Ferguson was than I doubt we'd be seeing this decline so badly. Ferguson himself wasn't a tactical genius, but he knew when to delegate, when to change things and was a great motivator.

Wenger doesn't like confrontation so could never be like that.

[Letters]

For me, 2006, just after that fuck awful FA Cup final that is was painful and embarrassing to win, where Wenger had turned full coward and sent our warriors out to cower, to find every negative way to stink up the game, that seems about the right moment to be getting on Wenger's case.
And yet, last time he signed a new contract you were supportive :lol:
And now you're lying about your opinions and mine. Low energy. Sad.

[Letters]

Give it up. You're having resort back to the old 606 board to drag up ancient history. :lol: Does it bother you that much? You have been wrong for a very long time. Accept it.

I think I have been too patient with Wenger. But that doesn't mean that we can now back-date our views and be all revisionist about what Wenger did for us back in the day.
As I said at more length elsewhere, Wenger's time with us broadly fails into 3 phases

1) Revolutionary who completely changed the culture of the club and raised us to a level I never thought I'd see Arsenal play at
2) Steadying of the ship where finances were hampering us somewhat during the stadium move and the billionaires had their biggest impact
3) Recent years where the money has been available to compete but the game has somewhat overtaken Wenger while he has stayed still and is increasingly looking like he can't compete at the very top level.

Like any manager he has strengths and weaknesses, those strengths in the early days revolutionised the club and formed the basis for the global club we now are - and have to be if we want to compete, and please don't anyone pull Leicester out their arse, it was amazing what they did but it was clearly a one off as last season showed. If you think 5th and the FA Cup was a car crash of a season then you have Wenger to thank for that, before he joined that would have been a very acceptable season. We expect better things now, we have the resources to expect that and that is largely down to Wenger. But his weaknesses were always evident, looking back. It's hard to see that when you're winning trophies left, right and centre and the quality of football in Europe but the failures in the CL, the failure to retain the title. Those are because of the failings which have always been there. And his strengths no longer help him in a game where now every club knows the worldwide game, every club has top training methods, every club has a good manager rather than a GHEL. Wenger can no longer compete in the modern game but that doesn't erase what he did in the past.

The "ancient history" was to demonstrate that Zim is a whiner and has always been a whiner. If you look at that thread pretty much everyone was telling him to STFU. He will always exaggerate, always go to the extreme. Now he's smugly saying "told you so" :lol:. If you take the same position on a subject, especially one like this where fortunes tend to fluctuate then you will always be able to declare yourself "right" at some point. People can lie about my opinions if they like but I'm not going to defend what Wenger is doing now and haven't done. But I will argue against stupid comments about him being our "worst manager ever" and "13 years of failure" or start questioning whether he was ever any good in the first place. Those are stupid comments and deserve ridicule.

[Power n Glory]

You guys can't talk about 'nuance' and 'over simplification' in Zim's posts if you're only reacting to one or two click bait lines from a post and ignoring context.

Gilberto was a good player with Vieria in a 4-4-2. That combination worked. With Cesc in a 4-4-2, he was terrible. The system was terrible. Can anyone deny that? It took a while for Wenger to figure out that he can't play those two players together in a 4-4-2. We were getting bullied and overrun. Gilberto wasn't a bulldozing all action DM and Cesc was a lightweight on defence that needed protecting.

In today's squad, it would be like trying to play Ozil and Xhaka in a 4-4-2. Even when changing to a 4-5-1 and the Gilberto/Cesc combo starts working better, he'd start to make odd choices, like playing Cesc on the wing, Eboue on the wing, Senderos as right back, Diaby on the wing....bench Gilberto all together and move Cesc to playing as a number 10 and put players behind Cesc that don't have the skill to recycle the ball effectively....hence, the birth of Tip Tap football.

All hallmarks to the sort of problems we see today. Back then, we used to blame the players and the Board because we thought Wenger was being forced to make odd decisions because of money restrictions. So early criticism of Wenger would often get waved away. It was true to extent because we couldn't spend what our rivals spent. But there were obvious flaws in Wenger's tactical thinking back then and it's clear now that the problem is the way he thinks and sees the game. I can't fault Zim for spotting that early. A lot of his earlier gripes were about team selection and the sort of performances we're getting from certain players and our transfer policy.

[Power n Glory]

I think I have been too patient with Wenger. But that doesn't mean that we can now back-date our views and be all revisionist about what Wenger did for us back in the day.
As I said at more length elsewhere, Wenger's time with us broadly fails into 3 phases

1) Revolutionary who completely changed the culture of the club and raised us to a level I never thought I'd see Arsenal play at
2) Steadying of the ship where finances were hampering us somewhat during the stadium move and the billionaires had their biggest impact
3) Recent years where the money has been available to compete but the game has somewhat overtaken Wenger while he has stayed still and is increasingly looking like he can't compete at the very top level.

Like any manager he has strengths and weaknesses, those strengths in the early days revolutionised the club and formed the basis for the global club we now are - and have to be if we want to compete, and please don't anyone pull Leicester out their arse, it was amazing what they did but it was clearly a one off as last season showed. If you think 5th and the FA Cup was a car crash of a season then you have Wenger to thank for that, before he joined that would have been a very acceptable season. We expect better things now, we have the resources to expect that and that is largely down to Wenger. But his weaknesses were always evident, looking back. It's hard to see that when you're winning trophies left, right and centre and the quality of football in Europe but the failures in the CL, the failure to retain the title. Those are because of the failings which have always been there. And his strengths no longer help him in a game where now every club knows the worldwide game, every club has top training methods, every club has a good manager rather than a GHEL. Wenger can no longer compete in the modern game but that doesn't erase what he did in the past.

The "ancient history" was to demonstrate that Zim is a whiner and has always been a whiner. If you look at that thread pretty much everyone was telling him to STFU. He will always exaggerate, always go to the extreme. Now he's smugly saying "told you so" :lol:. If you take the same position on a subject, especially one like this where fortunes tend to fluctuate then you will always be able to declare yourself "right" at some point. People can lie about my opinions if they like but I'm not going to defend what Wenger is doing now and haven't done. But I will argue against stupid comments about him being our "worst manager ever" and "13 years of failure" or start questioning whether he was ever any good in the first place. Those are stupid comments and deserve ridicule.

This the the problem. Key points in bold. You say Wenger has always had these flaws when looking back. It was hard for you to see when we were winning. So why continue to hammer away at another poster because he's always seen the flaws and never been afraid to voice them? Why call it revisionism if you're now looking back and seeing the flaws but couldn't see them back then?

Also, it's not just a case of Zim just saying 'Wenger Out' for 10 years. If you look at that post, he's talking about inexperienced players not being ready, failing to replace ageing players, not buying experienced quality, all stuff we've agreed with and repeat today. You're mate, GP, laughs about the Gilbert comment below....


He has failed to bring in quality experienced players (last summer and in January) and instead brought in more kids, we have plenty and most of the time they don;t cut it. The best kids tend to come through our ranks like Gilbert!

but fails to see how relevant this comment still is. I remember when Gilbert was first getting games and he looked the business. A year or two later it went downhill for him. Isn't that what happened to Jack Wilshere and Gibbs? Haven't we seen that with Iwobi and Bellerin? An explosive start but now things are starting to go sour. We're still signing inexperienced kids and none of have turned out well for us. Ox, Chambers, Jenkinson, Campbell, Walcott.....all these examples of seen before and it's still going on now. Everyone is singing Nelson's praises now but how knows what will happen with him here.

Again, I don't think you can accuse anyone of lacking nuance if you're only looking at debating the extreme comments. That's not a problem with this place, it's problem with you picking out a base level argument and hammering away at it for 10 years or so. It's not just Zim either. Someone can put together an intricate and sophisticated argument and you'll take the most meaningless, throw away comment from that post, quote it out of context from the body of the argument and decide to tackle that one point. That's not a problem with this place. You have plenty to choose from when it comes to an interesting debate. Heck, I still dont know why Zim triggers you so much.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Wenger is a cunt.

:haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

And yet, last time he signed a new contract you were supportive :lol:
And now you're lying about your opinions and mine. Low energy. Sad.

You're such a shockingly dishonest and petty individual. If you'd have added the entire quote it would reverse the context and obliterate the point you are trying to scribble. Which is why you picked half the quote.

And I didn't utter one single lie about your, what did you call them, opinions? That's ambitious. I wish somebody had the time to trawl through your posts like you are doing to others. If they categorised them into certain types of post is would be massively illustrative and incredibly embarrassing for you. The kill the messenger posts, the attack and redirect posts, the one liner wind-up efforts, and the endless, endless parrying you do for Wenger.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

In fairness I think it's always been obvious Wenger wasn't a great tactician and with the exception of the odd season here and there was never particularly proactive or successful in the transfer market.

The difference between then and now is the constant use of social media. What we liked and didn't like about him was discussed in the pub with mates.

And from what I remember. I don't think anyone was too sure about him until we clinched the first double.

Just as I remember even going back 10-11 years Zim was hardly a lone voice in criticising Wengers team selection and match tactics.

[Power n Glory]

You're such a shockingly dishonest and petty individual. If you'd have added the entire quote it would reverse the context and obliterate the point you are trying to scribble. Which is why you picked half the quote.

And I didn't utter one single lie about your, what did you call them, opinions? That's ambitious. I wish somebody had the time to trawl through your posts like you are doing to others. If they categorised them into certain types of post is would be massively illustrative and incredibly embarrassing for you. The kill the messenger posts, the attack and redirect posts, the one liner wind-up efforts, and the endless, endless parrying you do for Wenger.

:lol: Does it all the time.

[Niall_Quinn]

Word starting to come out today about how badly we fucked up the Lemar transfer. Story goes that Law and Wenger WENT ON HOLIDAY in the middle of the negotiations and left the player, his representatives and Monaco hanging in thin air. Can't confirm it yet but hopefully somebody will dig and get the full details out. Another claim is we told Alexis we'd accepted the bid from the gypos but did not tell him it was dependant on signing Lemar at the 11th hour. So Alexis was under the impression the deal was done, a team was over in Chile to finalise the deal, but we left them sitting there and never contacted them again, the window closed and that was that.

:haha:

Sounds like we've managed to piss off every single club, person, player involved in both these deals. And yet we bent over and took it right up the hole from Liverpool when they came calling for Ox.

[Power n Glory]

In fairness I think it's always been obvious Wenger wasn't a great tactician and with the exception of the odd season here and there was never particularly proactive or successful in the transfer market.

The difference between then and now is the constant use of social media. What we liked and didn't like about him was discussed in the pub with mates.

And from what I remember. I don't think anyone was too sure about him until we clinched the first double.

Just as I remember even going back 10-11 years Zim was hardly a lone voice in criticising Wengers team selection and match tactics.

I remember saying Wenger wasn't a great tactician 10 years ago or more and the GW mods rounding on me as if I had said something outrageous. Easy to say it's obvious now but people weren't saying it on this platform. Zim wasn't the lone voice but that doesn't matter. He's the one being singled out today and most days.

[Niall_Quinn]

I remember saying Wenger wasn't a great tactician 10 years ago or more and the GW mods rounding on me as if I had said something outrageous. Easy to say it's obvious now but people weren't saying it on this platform. Zim wasn't the lone voice but that doesn't matter. He's the one being singled out today and most days.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and we're all guilty of it to varying degrees. But blind devotion is not a wonderful thing and way, way too many of us were guilty of that for way way too long. Wenger and the club surfed it all the way to where we are now. A 10 year, slo motion train wreck with more and more passengers losing their blissful and snooty smiles and replacing them with masks of pure horror as the reality started dawning.

Some people are now saying the criticism of Wenger is being exaggerated. I'd love to know how? Worst manager in the world? The challenge still stands. Name a single manager who is worse, as things stand today and not based on events of 20 years ago, sticks of broccoli or Thierry Henry. Who, in world football, is fucking up more than Wenger? Name somebody. Who is playing their players out of position? Who is leaving their new signings on the bench for big games? Who is grubbing around for profits in the transfer window? Who is ruining young players to such a comprehensive degree? Who lies as much? The list could go on and on and on. He fucks up EVERYTHING. Again, no exaggeration.

And it was obvious it was coming. But of course, as fans, we'll be the blindest and most trusting of all. That's probably why some are still clinging to Wenger. They can't admit what the rest of us have had to admit, just how blind and gullible we've been.

[Globalgunner]

The amusing part is watching Letters slow, incremental descent from blind devotion to pretend distant detachment.
It started with " I won't hear a bad thing said about him" to
" Don't anybody dare call him a cunt". To
" Nobody can prove that he is incompetent". To
" I know he really loves the club" to
" I wish he would leave on a high but I don't want him embarrassed".
Now what is left is.
" I secretly wish he would win the treble and shut these fucks up". At which point he would go back to line 1.
" I won't hear a bad thing said about him".

[Niall_Quinn]

The amusing part is watching Letters slow, incremental descent from blind devotion to pretend distant detachment.
It started with " I won't hear a bad thing said about him" to
" Don't anybody dare call him a cunt". To
" Nobody can prove that he is incompetent". To
" I know he really loves the club" to
" I wish he would leave on a high but I don't want him embarrassed".
Now what is left is.
" I secretly wish he would win the treble and shut these fucks up". At which point he would go back to line 1.
" I won't hear a bad thing said about him".

Going back to Gutenberg's New Worlde Almanac, published c.1440, I notice you said:


I love Arsene Wenger!

And now you want him sacked :haha:

:doh:

Make up your mind.

#1000InternetPoints

[Globalgunner]

I invoke the Shaggy defence
"It wasn't me"

[KSE Comedy Club]

Going back to Gutenberg's New Worlde Almanac, published c.1440, I notice you said:



And now you want him sacked :haha:

:doh:

Make up your mind.

#1000InternetPoints
:haha::haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

Interesting to see the absolute meltdown at Barca over their transfer window. Lose star players? Fail to bring in the players the fans want to see? And this is with a club that has won titles and CLs and competes at the very top level every season. The fans know that to ease off for just a second gives the advantage to their rivals. And Barca chiefs are out explaining and apologising and trying to placate the fans.

The cunts at our place? Lying as usual. According to Le Cock, who has competed for fuck all in a decade, it was everyone else's fault they raked in a profit during our most important transfer window in years. Catalyst for change? Same old same old. Lucky this lot have Arsenal fans to answer to, rather than Barca fans. Can you imagine?

[Niall_Quinn]

This is a club remember where the manager sets his own (modest) goals, fails to meet them, but is kept on anyway. This is a club where under-achieving players are rewarded with bumper contracts that make them unsellable. This is a club where Yaya Sanogo recently found gainful employment for four years.

Sanchez challenged the mediocrity, and must be gotten rid of as a result. Good riddance. Please leave Alexis, and allow Arsenal to sleepwalk to a seventh-placed finish in peace.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/08/30/arsenal-players-wanting-alexis-sanchez-go-no-surprise-dont/

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I remember saying Wenger wasn't a great tactician 10 years ago or more and the GW mods rounding on me as if I had said something outrageous. Easy to say it's obvious now but people weren't saying it on this platform. Zim wasn't the lone voice but that doesn't matter. He's the one being singled out today and most days.

Because he welches on it, and deliberately exaggerates things. Things are bad enough without someone picking away at the carcus. It's as annoying as the devoted followers of Wenger who make shit up to fit their narrative.

I don't particularly want or need to have an inquest into what fans thought 5-10 years ago, what exactly does it achieve. You know what your opinion was, I know what my opinion was. And yet Zim seems to have a time machine he hasn't told anyone about where he thinks he can go back and correct the mistakes of the past in the sense of people's rose tinted spectacles when it comes to Wenger, first of all its crying for the moon as I remember people ripping him to shreds in a post season q and a back in 2009 over signing Mikael Silvestre. There's always been been those who have critiqued the Wenger approach, obviously it was going to take time for more and more people to be convinced.
Second of all even if every fan was against Wenger years ago would it have made the difference we think it might?

Don't get me wrong I'm not sure where Letters is coming from about a lack of nuance, we aren't in a situation that requires nuance. It's blatant to anyone that if you don't think he should be manager anymore you have some bizarre agenda.

[Power n Glory]

Because he welches on it, and deliberately exaggerates things. Things are bad enough without someone picking away at the carcus. It's as annoying as the devoted followers of Wenger who make shit up to fit their narrative.

I don't particularly want or need to have an inquest into what fans thought 5-10 years ago, what exactly does it achieve. You know what your opinion was, I know what my opinion was. And yet Zim seems to have a time machine he hasn't told anyone about where he thinks he can go back and correct the mistakes of the past in the sense of people's rose tinted spectacles when it comes to Wenger, first of all its crying for the moon as I remember people ripping him to shreds in a post season q and a back in 2009 over signing Mikael Silvestre. There's always been been those who have critiqued the Wenger approach, obviously it was going to take time for more and more people to be convinced.
Second of all even if every fan was against Wenger years ago would it have made the difference we think it might?

Don't get me wrong I'm not sure where Letters is coming from about a lack of nuance, we aren't in a situation that requires nuance. It's blatant to anyone that if you don't think he should be manager anymore you have some bizarre agenda.

Wasn't it Letters that decided to dig deep into archives of GW along a few of the other mods and Emirates bringing up what Zim would say about Gilberto?

If you find it annoying, you don't have to engage or attempt to challenge his posts every time. Even when there is an attempt to congratulate the team on a good result or celebrate a win on the thread, Letters is quick to take a swipe and drag out old stuff which takes the conversation down a level.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wasn't it Letters that decided to dig deep into archives of GW along a few of the other mods and Emirates bringing up what Zim would say about Gilberto?

If you find it annoying, you don't have to engage or attempt to challenge his posts every time. Even when there is an attempt to congratulate the team on a good result or celebrate a win on the thread, Letters is quick to take a swipe and drag out old stuff which takes the conversation down a level.

Seconded.

Zim has a certain way of presenting his opinions, as do I, as do all of us, but you can scan back and you'll see he doesn't initiate attacks on other posters and his targets are relevant. Wenger. The board. The players and sometimes those absolute fuckhead Wengerites who, yes, are entitled to their own opinions but they don't get a pass for being fucking stupid. Zim takes the piss out of Wenger, Letters takes the piss out of Zim. There is a HUGE difference in that. In fact Zim often tries to diffuse conflict by posting a reasonable and non-inflammatory response even when under the most vigorous abuse. Whereas Letter's style is far more likely to be a rush and flee, one line backstabs when he thinks it will attract attention. Zim concerns himself with Arsenal and its many woes, whereas Letters seems to use the place as a venue for amusement and trolling. Just my opinion. But also correct.

[Power n Glory]

Seconded.

Zim has a certain way of presenting his opinions, as do I, as do all of us, but you can scan back and you'll see he doesn't initiate attacks on other posters and his targets are relevant. Wenger. The board. The players and sometimes those absolute fuckhead Wengerites who, yes, are entitled to their own opinions but they don't get a pass for being fucking stupid. Zim takes the piss out of Wenger, Letters takes the piss out of Zim. There is a HUGE difference in that. In fact Zim often tries to diffuse conflict by posting a reasonable and non-inflammatory response even when under the most vigorous abuse. Whereas Letter's style is far more likely to be a rush and flee, one line backstabs when he thinks it will attract attention. Zim concerns himself with Arsenal and its many woes, whereas Letters seems to use the place as a venue for amusement and trolling. Just my opinion. But also correct.

Pretty much. Letters complains about GW but chooses the same battle each and every time.

[Özim]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and we're all guilty of it to varying degrees. But blind devotion is not a wonderful thing and way, way too many of us were guilty of that for way way too long. Wenger and the club surfed it all the way to where we are now. A 10 year, slo motion train wreck with more and more passengers losing their blissful and snooty smiles and replacing them with masks of pure horror as the reality started dawning.

Some people are now saying the criticism of Wenger is being exaggerated. I'd love to know how? Worst manager in the world? The challenge still stands. Name a single manager who is worse, as things stand today and not based on events of 20 years ago, sticks of broccoli or Thierry Henry. Who, in world football, is fucking up more than Wenger? Name somebody. Who is playing their players out of position? Who is leaving their new signings on the bench for big games? Who is grubbing around for profits in the transfer window? Who is ruining young players to such a comprehensive degree? Who lies as much? The list could go on and on and on. He fucks up EVERYTHING. Again, no exaggeration.

And it was obvious it was coming. But of course, as fans, we'll be the blindest and most trusting of all. That's probably why some are still clinging to Wenger. They can't admit what the rest of us have had to admit, just how blind and gullible we've been.

Absolutely spot on, when all is taken into consideration Wenger is pretty awful, you have to look at the whole picture, no other manager is doing such a diservice to the fans who effectively have allowed him to be what he is today, all the bits you pointed out are spot on, it would be hard to find a manager who does all of the above.

[Özim]

I remember saying Wenger wasn't a great tactician 10 years ago or more and the GW mods rounding on me as if I had said something outrageous. Easy to say it's obvious now but people weren't saying it on this platform. Zim wasn't the lone voice but that doesn't matter. He's the one being singled out today and most days.

Exactly right and incidentally I'm not here to say I told you so and have never said as much, all I've said is Wenger should have gone years ago and I stand by that. It's taken more time for others to come round to the fact Wenger isn't up to it and that's fine, but some still somewhat defend him even if they don't admit to it, there is no defence of him however, he's created this mess.

Thanks for the support guys!

[Özim]

And yet, last time he signed a new contract you were supportive :lol:
And now you're lying about your opinions and mine. Low energy. Sad.

Firstly people are allowed to changed their minds, secondly I don't recall NQ being particularly supportive of Wenger for many years, he's been one of his staunchest critics if anything.

[Özim]

I think I have been too patient with Wenger. But that doesn't mean that we can now back-date our views and be all revisionist about what Wenger did for us back in the day.
As I said at more length elsewhere, Wenger's time with us broadly fails into 3 phases

1) Revolutionary who completely changed the culture of the club and raised us to a level I never thought I'd see Arsenal play at
2) Steadying of the ship where finances were hampering us somewhat during the stadium move and the billionaires had their biggest impact
3) Recent years where the money has been available to compete but the game has somewhat overtaken Wenger while he has stayed still and is increasingly looking like he can't compete at the very top level.

Like any manager he has strengths and weaknesses, those strengths in the early days revolutionised the club and formed the basis for the global club we now are - and have to be if we want to compete, and please don't anyone pull Leicester out their arse, it was amazing what they did but it was clearly a one off as last season showed. If you think 5th and the FA Cup was a car crash of a season then you have Wenger to thank for that, before he joined that would have been a very acceptable season. We expect better things now, we have the resources to expect that and that is largely down to Wenger. But his weaknesses were always evident, looking back. It's hard to see that when you're winning trophies left, right and centre and the quality of football in Europe but the failures in the CL, the failure to retain the title. Those are because of the failings which have always been there. And his strengths no longer help him in a game where now every club knows the worldwide game, every club has top training methods, every club has a good manager rather than a GHEL. Wenger can no longer compete in the modern game but that doesn't erase what he did in the past.

The "ancient history" was to demonstrate that Zim is a whiner and has always been a whiner. If you look at that thread pretty much everyone was telling him to STFU. He will always exaggerate, always go to the extreme. Now he's smugly saying "told you so" :lol:. If you take the same position on a subject, especially one like this where fortunes tend to fluctuate then you will always be able to declare yourself "right" at some point. People can lie about my opinions if they like but I'm not going to defend what Wenger is doing now and haven't done. But I will argue against stupid comments about him being our "worst manager ever" and "13 years of failure" or start questioning whether he was ever any good in the first place. Those are stupid comments and deserve ridicule.

I'm not revising history, just questioning how a man who was supposedly so great can be so awful in the modern day and it's a fair question. He inability to repeat anything like what he did before whilst also completely changing all the successful things about his winning teams is odd to say the least, in 12-13 years since he's not managed to repeat or come close to doing that once and hasn't even really tried in my eyes, he's been so blinkered by this new mini Barca methodology and building the worlds best youth team he's refused to accept it just doesn't work.

People harp on about what he did, but what about what's he's done in the last decade, which is anything has moulded are club far more, moulded it into something a lot of fans very much dislike. He had 7 years of great success yes, but IMO 2/3 of his career at Arsenal can be viewed as a failure because of where we are now, in an almighty mess.

[Özim]

You guys can't talk about 'nuance' and 'over simplification' in Zim's posts if you're only reacting to one or two click bait lines from a post and ignoring context.

Gilberto was a good player with Vieria in a 4-4-2. That combination worked. With Cesc in a 4-4-2, he was terrible. The system was terrible. Can anyone deny that? It took a while for Wenger to figure out that he can't play those two players together in a 4-4-2. We were getting bullied and overrun. Gilberto wasn't a bulldozing all action DM and Cesc was a lightweight on defence that needed protecting.

In today's squad, it would be like trying to play Ozil and Xhaka in a 4-4-2. Even when changing to a 4-5-1 and the Gilberto/Cesc combo starts working better, he'd start to make odd choices, like playing Cesc on the wing, Eboue on the wing, Senderos as right back, Diaby on the wing....bench Gilberto all together and move Cesc to playing as a number 10 and put players behind Cesc that don't have the skill to recycle the ball effectively....hence, the birth of Tip Tap football.

All hallmarks to the sort of problems we see today. Back then, we used to blame the players and the Board because we thought Wenger was being forced to make odd decisions because of money restrictions. So early criticism of Wenger would often get waved away. It was true to extent because we couldn't spend what our rivals spent. But there were obvious flaws in Wenger's tactical thinking back then and it's clear now that the problem is the way he thinks and sees the game. I can't fault Zim for spotting that early. A lot of his earlier gripes were about team selection and the sort of performances we're getting from certain players and our transfer policy.

This is a great post btw, I'm glad someone remembers how it actually was, for me it was the contrast from successful coach and the total transformation that followed, the way he seemed to make illogical decisions and insisted on the wrong player combinations and putting square pegs into round holes.

It just didn't sit right with me, 2 years before that the football was exhilerating and everything about the club was exciting, such a dramatic change in formula was one of the oddest things I've seen in football, to never return to your winning formula despite years of failure with your new methods is even odder, you'd have thought he might have tried, ironically he's seemingly purposefully resisted trying that formula, refusing to buy leaders or to buy tough, physical players and defenders who can primarily defend.

[Özim]

Because he welches on it, and deliberately exaggerates things. Things are bad enough without someone picking away at the carcus. It's as annoying as the devoted followers of Wenger who make shit up to fit their narrative.

I don't particularly want or need to have an inquest into what fans thought 5-10 years ago, what exactly does it achieve. You know what your opinion was, I know what my opinion was. And yet Zim seems to have a time machine he hasn't told anyone about where he thinks he can go back and correct the mistakes of the past in the sense of people's rose tinted spectacles when it comes to Wenger, first of all its crying for the moon as I remember people ripping him to shreds in a post season q and a back in 2009 over signing Mikael Silvestre. There's always been been those who have critiqued the Wenger approach, obviously it was going to take time for more and more people to be convinced.
Second of all even if every fan was against Wenger years ago would it have made the difference we think it might?

Don't get me wrong I'm not sure where Letters is coming from about a lack of nuance, we aren't in a situation that requires nuance. It's blatant to anyone that if you don't think he should be manager anymore you have some bizarre agenda.

You seem to think I'm constantly stating "I told you so" whereas that's not the case, I've never ever said to anyone I told you 10 years ago he should have gone, the most I've done is said Wenger should have gone years ago, something which other people also point out many years back, perhaps as far back as 2011, that's not a dig at other posters thinking he should have stayed on longer, more that I feel we would be in a better place now had he gone then.

I just think Wenger has had too much leeway for a manager at a top club, too many free passes despite many odd decisions and never addressing issues with the team, we did have some great times, but those can't gloss over the present and what is happening, you might buy yourself a few years of grace, but not a decade or anywhere near it, at some stage you have to deliver on your promises.

I can still remember him during the failed youth project not signing enough players saying that the players will have 1 more years experience and that they are now ready to kick on and win stuff, that was probably about 7 years ago and yet when he failed to do it, it's not talked about at all (by the press), he just walks away from that without any questions asked, it's swept under the carpet.

He's decided to follow a certain route and failed, that's fine but at least learn from that and acknowledge your failures, don't pretend they never happened and hail them as a success.

[Letters]

I'm not revising history, just questioning how a man who was supposedly so great can be so awful in the modern day and it's a fair question.
It is a fair question and I've already given my take on that. Quite simply, he has got older, he hasn't been able or willing to adapt as the game has changed around him.
But that doesn't mean that he wasn't, in the early days, a revolutionary who transformed the club.

It's like watching the original 1933 King Kong film now and saying "The effects are crap!". Well, sure, they look pretty crappy NOW, because things have moved on and we are used to better. But at the time they were thought amazing. If a director kept making films using those techniques then they would look increasingly bad compared with films made using modern techniques. And that's where Wenger has failed, his once revolutionary ideas about fitness, diet and training are no longer revolutionary. His once revolutionary knowledge of the worldwide game which meant he could cherry pick talent before other clubs even knew about players is no longer revolutionary. The other clubs have caught up and arguably surpassed us in these areas.

I think it's too simplistic to say that it's been 7 years of success and 13 of failure. In the middle phase of the 3 I outlined above I think he did pretty well when money was fairly tight and the billionaires were running amok to keep us relatively competitive. He failed to land another title, maybe without the Eduardo leg break he would have, we will never know. But I don't regard those years as an abject failure. I think he deserved a chance when the money became available to use it to try and compete again. The signings of Ozil, Cech and Sanchez did seem to indicate a change of direction, the FA Cup was a welcome relief after so many trophyless years. But he has failed to push us on and it's increasingly clear he can't.

Wenger is a man making stop motion films in a world of CGI. But back in the day his stop-motion films were brilliant, he was brilliant. He had flaws, sure, every manager does. And I don't believe you or anyone else was particularly prescient about those, his failure as a tactician is not new news. But comments about him being the worst manager Arsenal have had are pretty silly.

[selassie]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=28nXNHyPUgA

[Niall_Quinn]

It is a fair question and I've already given my take on that. Quite simply, he has got older, he hasn't been able or willing to adapt as the game has changed around him.
But that doesn't mean that he wasn't, in the early days, a revolutionary who transformed the club.

It's like watching the original 1933 King Kong film now and saying "The effects are crap!". Well, sure, they look pretty crappy NOW, because things have moved on and we are used to better. But at the time they were thought amazing. If a director kept making films using those techniques then they would look increasingly bad compared with films made using modern techniques. And that's where Wenger has failed, his once revolutionary ideas about fitness, diet and training are no longer revolutionary. His once revolutionary knowledge of the worldwide game which meant he could cherry pick talent before other clubs even knew about players is no longer revolutionary. The other clubs have caught up and arguably surpassed us in these areas.

I think it's too simplistic to say that it's been 7 years of success and 13 of failure. In the middle phase of the 3 I outlined above I think he did pretty well when money was fairly tight and the billionaires were running amok to keep us relatively competitive. He failed to land another title, maybe without the Eduardo leg break he would have, we will never know. But I don't regard those years as an abject failure. I think he deserved a chance when the money became available to use it to try and compete again. The signings of Ozil, Cech and Sanchez did seem to indicate a change of direction, the FA Cup was a welcome relief after so many trophyless years. But he has failed to push us on and it's increasingly clear he can't.

Wenger is a man making stop motion films in a world of CGI. But back in the day his stop-motion films were brilliant, he was brilliant. He had flaws, sure, every manager does. And I don't believe you or anyone else was particularly prescient about those, his failure as a tactician is not new news. But comments about him being the worst manager Arsenal have had are pretty silly.

Good God. The endless excuses. Why is it you even feel you need to make these excuses for the man? What sort of argument is it to say, yes it is awful now, but remember when it wasn't! What's that supposed to do? What does it give us? Should we keep on taking it up the arse because a decade ago he used to buy us flowers?

Do we have to make these excuses for Bergkamp? Henry?

So fucking what if Wenger ruled the roost in a bygone era? What relevance does that have to what's happening now? It's just the same tired old excuse, he used to be able to do it so he should be forgiven for not being able to do it now. Bollocks.

He's a sellout. That's the real difference and the real change. All the things he did. Well congratulations and they'll never be forgotten. But the sellout is fresher on the memory and just as significant.