When will Arteta be sacked by

[Ollie the Optimist]

Should be gone tonight as the longer we leave, the more damage he does

[Marc Overmars]

Don’t think he’ll last beyond Christmas tbh.

[Niall_Quinn]

A guru will come in and teach Stan and the gang the error of their ways. They'll persuade the players to pull their weight and not be unspeakably greedy cunts. Definitely happening. Don't know who it will be but there must be a superhero out there who can get the job done.

OR.

Some other placeholder will be brought in to maintain the illusion.

[Mac76]

Don’t think he’ll last beyond Christmas tbh.

Me neither, sadly it'll be another season scuppered though

If our next manager isn't someone with real pedigree it'll be the same story with the next one though, we need genuine class and experience

[Bumble]

Me neither, sadly it'll be another season scuppered though

If our next manager isn't someone with real pedigree it'll be the same story with the next one though, we need genuine class and experience

Real pedigree like who though? if a manager life cycle is like 3 or 4 years then does a top manager want to waste 2 of them trying to get us into the CL before even having a tilt at the league.

We need a manager with some experience but possibly one who wants to grab the opportunity at a bigger club than they are used to.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Real pedigree like who though? if a manager life cycle is like 3 or 4 years then does a top manager want to waste 2 of them trying to get us into the CL before even having a tilt at the league.

We need a manager with some experience but possibly one who wants to grab the opportunity at a bigger club than they are used to.

Didnt Klopp take over Liverpool when they were struggling?

I do see the point that why would a big name manager come to us right now but i would hope maybe someone would see it as a challenge. We are still a big name, even if we do not play like one recently, and so having a chance to take a struggling club back to glory surely would be quite tempting for a decent manager as long as the club are prepared to back them in transfer market rather than relying on Edu to negotiate deals with his mates landing us Willian

[Globalgunner]

Zidane is available. It doesnt come with more pedigree than that. Will our owner care enough to make the call?. We need to sack the twats who thought Arteta was a thing too. Moerons of the highest order. Make someone like David O'Leary the new DoF

[Letters]

#WengerIn


:ninja:

[I am invisible]

No decent manager is touching this job right now. Seriously, what’s in it for them? The honour of managing Arsenal? Don’t make me laugh! This is what they have to look forward to…

- A bloated squad full of garbage, overpaid players that can’t be moved and have already maxed out your budget…

- …coupled with a one in, one out, sell-before you-can-buy policy…

- …and a dead market where there’s no buyers.

- Owners who won’t invest.

- No support from executive level.

- No board of directors to set standards.

- The strongest, wealthiest competition in the world who are already light years ahead of us in terms of squad building and investment and only getting stronger.

- A fractured fanbase who reached the limit of their patience 5 years ago and will be at your throat from game one.

If I were any half decent manager, I’d be looking at us and thinking ‘I’ll let someone else take the bullets sorting that mess out and put my application in in a year or two’. I certainly wouldn’t gamble my reputation on being the one to fix Arsenal.

[Mac76]

@ Invisible, Your point about the fanbase is interesting, it'll be fascinating to see the atmosphere next weekend, on the one hand people will be pleased to be back and so in a mood to celebrate, on the other if they don't get a good performance it could turn sour quickly

But on the big-name manager i do think we're still a draw, we've some fantastic young players and there's still enough to work with among the others for someone who actually knows what they're doing to make the CL, plus we still have the draw of London, the stadium etc

If Neverton can get an Ancellotti so can we

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

@ Invisible, Your point about the fanbase is interesting, it'll be fascinating to see the atmosphere next weekend, on the one hand people will be pleased to be back and so in a mood to celebrate, on the other if they don't get a good performance it could turn sour quickly

But on the big-name manager i do think we're still a draw, we've some fantastic young players and there's still enough to work with among the others for someone who actually knows what they're doing to make the CL, plus we still have the draw of London, the stadium etc

If Neverton can get an Ancellotti so can we

We are still a draw and any fan who questions that, even if you are being genuine, is being nothing more than an "enabler" , the kind of "enabler" that has allowed the Kronkes and their partners to continue sucking all the life out of this club.

I have said it a thousand times here that Ancelotti was my first choice to take over from AW and more importantly we were always his first choice club that he wanted to take over...yet every effing time our suits kept messing it up with "enablers" encouraging thier crazy choices.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/5924719/carlo-ancelotti-puts-arsenal-on-alert-after-admitting-he-is-waiting-for-a-job-in-the-premier-league/amp/

https://metro.co.uk/2019/12/18/carlo-ancelotti-disappointed-arsenal-decision-hire-mikel-arteta-11928191/amp/

In one of my last posts here I still mentioned about 4 managers I 'd give the job to over going on another merry-go with Arteta, they all changed clubs this summer except Rodgers, who I still believe we could entice if we said the right words.

We are are the cute gentle guy, who ticks all the right boxes but pretends to be shy, that all pretty girls want to be with, yet he's happy sticking with the mingers.

Zidane could come, it is very realistic and he is not bigger than AFC....can we fans stop repeating drivel that we are completely unattractive because one day (and it looks like it might be coming soon) that talk will be true.

[I am invisible]

@ Invisible, Your point about the fanbase is interesting, it'll be fascinating to see the atmosphere next weekend, on the one hand people will be pleased to be back and so in a mood to celebrate, on the other if they don't get a good performance it could turn sour quickly…
Yeah, I think next week could turn really ugly really quickly. It will start out ok - I expect Saka will get a rousing reception - but the first thing that goes wrong and the atmosphere will turn in an instant. If the game goes really badly (which it easily could) then we could see protests outside the ground after the final whistle.

My point about the fanbase is that I’m not sure we’ve ever really recovered from the battle lines that were drawn back in the final Wenger days - if it’s not AKBs vs Wenger Outers it’s something else. It’s always something. I think that’s just who we are as fans now - we split 10 years ago and now neither side can let it go. If we sack Arteta then the pendulum will just swing the other way again: the current irate section of the fans will be kept happy, but the other half will be looking for any opening to go after the new guy.

At this point I really fear that no new manager will ever be given a fair crack at the job - they’d have to be successful immediately, but how likely is that?


…But on the big-name manager i do think we're still a draw, we've some fantastic young players and there's still enough to work with among the others for someone who actually knows what they're doing to make the CL, plus we still have the draw of London, the stadium etc

If Neverton can get an Ancellotti so can we
I think we’ll be an attractive (ish) option again from next summer because, one way or another, most of our crippling contract issues will be over by then and we’ll actually have room to move - I just don’t see anyone going near us this year. If we sack Arteta now - if we want a new manager now - then I think we’re looking at the same options as before: someone up and coming who’s looking to make a name for themselves or someone who would see this as their only chance to manage a club like Arsenal.

[Globalgunner]

We could get a Zidane or Conte. We just need an owner who cares enough to sell his project. Instead we have a person who probably couldn't tell you how many players are allowed in a team. Sticking with this chancer beyond September would make this a relegation dogfight and then NO One will want to come. Fans will have patience if they see competence sitting on the bench and coherence on the pitch. Everything about Arteta screams rank amateur, from his signings to his tactics to his handling of player and fan affairs. He is toxic and setting him free to run amok on this club on the back of an FA cup win is rank incompetence.

[Mac76]

With our next games being Chelski (currently 3-0 up) then Citeh, we'll be rock bottom after three games with probably a GD of -10

I just hope they don't do what they did with Emery amd leave it too late before acting, lego-hair needs to be gone by the end of September so the new manager can work towards the January window

[Ollie the Optimist]

While its true the fan base is not the most patient at the moment, if the club managed to secure a genuine world class manager such as Allegri or Conte, many would become very patient.

They’ll know that the manager hasn’t had a chance to buy/sell players and that work is needed to fix the club. However the longer the club leave Arteta in charge the more toxic it will become

[dazthegooner]

Well we're being told to trust the process and if we carry on we might be able to win the Championship next year <_<

[I am invisible]

While its true the fan base is not the most patient at the moment, if the club managed to secure a genuine world class manager such as Allegri or Conte, many would become very patient.

They’ll know that the manager hasn’t had a chance to buy/sell players and that work is needed to fix the club. However the longer the club leave Arteta in charge the more toxic it will becomeThis is what I’m worried about, though Ollie - if we’re already setting the expectation level at Conte or Allegri or Zidane (and presumably the £250-300m of spending money that it would take to persuade them to come here) then we’re basically just laying the groundwork for massive disappointment and more outrage and in-fighting when the next manager is anything less than that.

Honestly, I’d love to believe it might happen, I really would, but after 15 years of KSE ownership I’ve stopped hoping that we’re going to win the billionaire lottery. It’s crystal clear to me now that there’s no instant fix for us with these people in charge - they won’t fund it and, as Global rightly says, I doubt they even have a vision for the club to sell, much less the ability to sell it. If we’re going to dig ourselves out of this mess then we’re going to have to do it ourselves, without the owners’ support and leadership and with the club’s own resources.

Get rid of Arteta, fine - he’s really fucked me off with his last couple of interviews - but can we at least have some kind of acceptance and agreement that the new guy will have to be able to succeed in the exact same conditions, and that it probably won’t be a Conte or Zidane?

[Mac76]

No i don't agree, like i said if Neverton can get Ancellotti we can get Allegri, Conte or Zidane

It's just a decision that needs to be made to get an established manager, not another loser

[dazthegooner]

Well if Arteta goes Edu would have to go with him I understand Garrlick has experience dealing with transfers and managers of the caliber of Allergi and Conte would have a vast knowledge of players other than S America and the pull to bring them.

[Ollie the Optimist]

This is what I’m worried about, though Ollie - if we’re already setting the expectation level at Conte or Allegri or Zidane (and presumably the £250-300m of spending money that it would take to persuade them to come here) then we’re basically just laying the groundwork for massive disappointment and more outrage and in-fighting when the next manager is anything less than that.

Honestly, I’d love to believe it might happen, I really would, but after 15 years of KSE ownership I’ve stopped hoping that we’re going to win the billionaire lottery. It’s crystal clear to me now that there’s no instant fix for us with these people in charge - they won’t fund it and, as Global rightly says, I doubt they even have a vision for the club to sell, much less the ability to sell it. If we’re going to dig ourselves out of this mess then we’re going to have to do it ourselves, without the owners’ support and leadership and with the club’s own resources.

Get rid of Arteta, fine - he’s really fucked me off with his last couple of interviews - but can we at least have some kind of acceptance and agreement that the new guy will have to be able to succeed in the exact same conditions, and that it probably won’t be a Conte or Zidane?

A fair point on the type of managers we can get. I think we are big draw still & could get a Conte or Zidane.

However if the club appoint someone like Brendan Rodgers, i think even that would get fans on side for a bit. Arteta was a complete rookie who while he had support at the start, lost it because he tried to act billy big bollcoks pushing out big name players for no reason, and making us worse. If a new manager came in & improvement happened, the fans would be onside

[I am invisible]

No i don't agree, like i said if Neverton can get Ancellotti we can get Allegri, Conte or Zidane

It's just a decision that needs to be made to get an established manager, not another loser
Mate, I think we could easily get an Ancelotti - I just don’t think he’s in the same elite bracket as those other names that we’re talking about. Not anymore. 10 years ago he would have been an elite hire, but Ancelotti in 2021 is about the same level hire as Mourinho for me: a safe pair of hands who will keep the players happy and maybe get us up to 6th or 5th, but who’s ideas are yesterday’s news by today’s standards and who’s not going to challenge Guardiola or Tuchel or Klopp. If we take the red and white tinted specs off, we’re about the same level as Everton right now and he did very little with them after a bright start - I don’t see how he really moves us forward that much.

As for those other names, we passed on Allegri before we hired Emery because his demands were too high, and that was when we still had some CL credit left in the bank and Europa league football to offer - can’t see us suddenly being able to afford him now we’ve had another 3 years out of the CL, a year of no fans in stadiums, and no European football at all.

And Conte has just left Inter on the grounds that they could no longer afford to match his ambition, and then rejected the chance to join spurs because they wouldn’t give him a quarter of a billion to spend. These aren’t managers who come in to fix broken clubs - they’re cherry-on-the-top managers who move around the strongest clubs in the world turning them from near misses into title winners. We have a way to go before we’re shopping in those aisles.

[I am invisible]

A fair point on the type of managers we can get. I think we are big draw still & could get a Conte or Zidane.

However if the club appoint someone like Brendan Rodgers, i think even that would get fans on side for a bit. Arteta was a complete rookie who while he had support at the start, lost it because he tried to act billy big bollcoks pushing out big name players for no reason, and making us worse. If a new manager came in & improvement happened, the fans would be onside
Someone like Rogers would be fine and realistic - all I’m saying is I guarantee you there’d be a section of fans who would oppose if and wouldn’t be able to let it go because he wasn’t the manager they wanted. I’m sure some would do it for no other reason than they’ve blindly followed Arteta, don’t want to admit that they’re wrong, and want the next guy to fail just to prove a point*. That’s how ridiculous I think we’ve become as a fanbase.

But, yeah, fwiw I think that’s more the level of name that I think we’re going to be looking at and need to get comfortable with.

*Edit: I’m a regular watcher / listener of TGT, and Tom has had people loudly unsubscribing from the channel and flouncing off just because he’s changed his stance on Arteta from ‘not everything’s shit and give him a fair chance’ to ‘he’s been given a chance and it’s not working out’ - how crazy is that?

[Ollie the Optimist]

I saw a stat on twitter (so take with pinch of salt) but it does ring true.

Under Arteta, Ozil has created the most number of chances to date. He only played 10 games and hasn’t played for us for 18 months!

That’s pretty damming

[I am invisible]

Is anyone else worried that Vinnai, Edu or Josh don't have the strength of personality or the desire to stand up to Arteta and pull the trigger on him if they have to? I have a horrible feeling that they have no intention of sacking him, no matter what happens...

[Globalgunner]

Strength of personality will come when the whole Emirates start chanting "You dont know what youre doing"

[Letters]

Strength of personality will come when the whole Emirates start chanting "You dont know what youre doing"

The atmosphere could get very toxic vs Chelsea if things go as we expect them to.

[dazthegooner]

Apparently there is going to Kreonke out protest before the match should be interesting.

[Mac76]

We need to get rid of Kroenke, Edu, Arteta and half the squad

[Bumble]

Apparently there is going to Kreonke out protest before the match should be interesting.

bet the billionaire is well scared of that

[Niall_Quinn]

The atmosphere could get very toxic vs Chelsea if things go as we expect them to.

This has been going on for well over a decade. What difference will the next toxic atmosphere make? There are no signs the cronies in charge are prepared to change.

[I am invisible]

bet the billionaire is well scared of that
Sadly have to agree - it probably won’t even filter through to him on his half million acre ranch in Texas.

I doubt he’d understand what the problem is anyway? From his POV his £1bn investment is now valued at more than double that, so what are these dirty peasants complaining about?

[I am invisible]

Good discussion about the state of the club, if anyone wants a bit of background noise while they work…

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YrxgCcqpJLM

[Niall_Quinn]

We all contributed to this, from the authorities at the highest levels all the way through to the lowly fans who actually support this shit, as in prop it up with their earned cash. More TV, more money, more hype, more spinning graphics and pounding accompaniment. The new football.

Well here it is. We got what we paid through the nose for. Is it any wonder vulture capitalists swooped in to clean it up? And that's just the players.

[Bumble]

Thinking about it. The transfer business we have done, i dony think arteta will get sacked. We are building a young team to develop. It doesnt make sense for them to bin arteta and rebuild again. Experienced managers want a team ready for now not a project.

[Globalgunner]

It all depends on how the weekend goes. If we get a thumping from Chelsea and produce another tickle me Elmo performance against City, the atmosphere will become rancid. If as rumours say Arteta has pissed of his 2 lead strikers. I cant see how we can get any sort of performance from the rest. No Auba laca or Partey. My concern is where are the goals gonna come from?

[I am invisible]

It all depends on how the weekend goes. If we get a thumping from Chelsea and produce another tickle me Elmo performance against City, the atmosphere will become rancid. If as rumours say Arteta has pissed of his 2 lead strikers. I cant see how we can get any sort of performance from the rest. No Auba laca or Partey. My concern is where are the goals gonna come from?

We might get a performance at home and with the crowd, but yeah I'm struggling to see where the goals come from? I think we just need to concentrate on the things we can solve, like making sure we don't get bullied / overrun at the back, and then see what happens. I'd match them up with 3 at the back - Tierney, Holding and White - with Saka LWB, ESR in front of Xhaka and Sambi, and then let Martinelli and Pepe do whatever they want up front. The only thing I'm unsure of is RWB? I think I'd be tempted to go with Tavares again - he's raw, but at least he looks powerful and isn't afraid to have a go. Don't see us having more than one goal in us, max, so we really need to shithouse the shit out of this one...

[GP]

Around 150m spent this window. No excuses now.

[Marc Overmars]

There haven’t been any excuses for a while but I’m sure some will be found.

[Mac76]

There haven’t been any excuses for a while but I’m sure some will be found.

They're forecasting rain on Sunday, you can't expect us to win when it's all wet an' that...

[I am invisible]

Bumble’s already laid out this season’s excuse: Tavares (21), Lokonga (21), White (23), Ødegaard (22), Ramsdale (23), Saka (19), ESR (21), Martinelli (20), Balogun (20), Gabriel (23) - they’re gonna be all over the ‘long-term strategy’ angle if it goes south.

[Letters]

Bumble’s already laid out this season’s excuse: Tavares (21), Lokonga (21), White (23), Ødegaard (22), Ramsdale (23), Saka (19), ESR (21), Martinelli (20), Balogun (20), Gabriel (23) - they’re gonna be all over the ‘long-term strategy’ angle if it goes south.

And, actually, maybe there is something in that. People have been saying we need to rebuild but that takes time unless you're a City who can buy the finished article in every position.

[Mac76]

Well for a start i expect a £50m defender to be at top level right now, not a work in progress ffs

[Letters]

That's fair :lol:
Although these prices are meaningless now.
£50m players are nothing special these days.

[Globalgunner]

That's fair :lol:
Although these prices are meaningless now.
£50m players are nothing special these days.

In the case of Ben White who is just a few inches taller than you. That couldnt be more true

[I am invisible]

And, actually, maybe there is something in that. People have been saying we need to rebuild but that takes time unless you're a City who can buy the finished article in every position.
And I don’t disagree - the problem is we should have done this 3 years ago, straight after Wenger left. Instead we kicked the can down the road for another 3 years and dug ourselves in even deeper.

We asked the fans for patience 15 years ago when we moved stadium, and now we’re going to be asked for more patience. I know it has to be done - we’re in such a mess now I see no other option - but it’s going to go down like a lead balloon when they wheel it out!

[I am invisible]

That's fair :lol:
Although these prices are meaningless now.
£50m players are nothing special these days.
:good:

These prices aren’t actually that eyebrow-raising when the player is young enough and on affordable wages - if it works out then you get 10 years of good service and it looks like value, and if it doesn’t then you recoup a significant chunk and reinvest.

I suspect there’s an element of future-proofing against the post-Brexit market with White and Ramsdale too - pay a premium today to make sure we’re not getting backed into a corner with Grealish and Kane prices for everyone next year (esp. if that non HG cap suddenly lowers).

[Mac76]

It's funny how leaving the EU has had negative effects - who'd have thought... :rolleyes:

[Letters]

It's funny how leaving the EU has had negative effects - who'd have thought... :rolleyes:

https://newsthump.com/2021/08/20/end-of-freedom-of-movement-will-see-santa-unable-to-deliver-in-the-uk-after-brexit/

:(

[Bumble]

It's funny how leaving the EU has had negative effects - who'd have thought... :rolleyes:

ahhh but maybe it could work in our favour - we seem to be buying or developing young british players. so perhaps if there is a quota down the line we are already ahead of the game... or am i giving too much credit to the board.

[Ollie the Optimist]

There are a few stories around today that the club are giving Arteta 5 games to turn it around or hell be sacked & replaced by Conte.

That sort of sums the club up, they cant just pull the trigger & get a world class manager in now. Too weak to do anything.

The next five games include city & spurs plus Burnley away, it is very possible we only get 3/4 points out of 15. If the club think conte wants the job, fire Arteta & get him in. Why waste 5 games

[Bumble]

There are a few stories around today that the club are giving Arteta 5 games to turn it around or hell be sacked & replaced by Conte.

That sort of sums the club up, they cant just pull the trigger & get a world class manager in now. Too weak to do anything.

The next five games include city & spurs plus Burnley away, it is very possible we only get 3/4 points out of 15. If the club think conte wants the job, fire Arteta & get him in. Why waste 5 games
Didnt Conte turn down Spurs because he wanted a load of cash to spend on players. So how would we be any different when we have already spent a load of cash on players. Plus wasnt he sacked at Chelsea for not giving young players a chance... i cant remember exactly.

[Mac76]

There are a few stories around today that the club are giving Arteta 5 games to turn it around or hell be sacked & replaced by Conte.

That sort of sums the club up, they cant just pull the trigger & get a world class manager in now. Too weak to do anything.

The next five games include city & spurs plus Burnley away, it is very possible we only get 3/4 points out of 15. If the club think conte wants the job, fire Arteta & get him in. Why waste 5 games

:gp:

[selassie]

He needs to go ASAP IMO. Damage is already done, he has spent over 200million and alarmingly we don't even seem to have solved any of our issues or improved the team much if at all. The squad is full of garbage, players we can't even give away.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm still shocked Arteta took us on. He could have used his street cred and worked his way up through easier (indeed possible) challenges. But he decided to jump in at the top and that was pretty stupid. Now he'll pay the price, just like the next manager who tries to undo Wenger's catastrophic legacy. Between Wenger and Kroenke, there's not a single manager out there who could make a dent.

[Letters]

So we shouldn’t expect a title challenge within 2 years?

:coffee:

[Ollie the Optimist]

I'm still shocked Arteta took us on. He could have used his street cred and worked his way up through easier (indeed possible) challenges. But he decided to jump in at the top and that was pretty stupid. Now he'll pay the price, just like the next manager who tries to undo Wenger's catastrophic legacy. Between Wenger and Kroenke, there's not a single manager out there who could make a dent.

3 games, 3 defeats & no goals.

That’s just piss poor management especially when millions have been spent in the last two years on new players. That’s not wenger legacy, thats shocking management and lack of coaching which is solely on Arteta.

[Letters]

I’ll keep saying it till the penny drops, but the season after Wenger left we finished 5th and we’re 2 points off 3rd. And we got to the Europa League final.

People can keep pretending that this is all Wenger if they like but it’s kinda funny watching people who said we were “coming for” City after Wenger’s departure and that we should expect a title challenge within 2 years now pretending that there’s no way anyone could do better.

[Mac76]

3 games, 3 defeats & no goals.

That’s just piss poor management especially when millions have been spent in the last two years on new players. That’s not wenger legacy, thats shocking management and lack of coaching which is solely on Arteta.

:gp:

[Globalgunner]

Letters you keep coming back with the same crap after every defeat. Did many on here not tell you what damage Wenger was doing to the club since 2012?. Yeah I'm sure you'd like us to go back to those idyllic days of losing 5-1 to Bayern 3 times on the trot. If you truly had any sense of introspection you would just shut up. But instead you keep harping on a trite statement that anyone was better than Wenger. "Ok....but we havent employed Mr Anyone yet". So wind your damn neck in. You were part and parcel of the Wenger knows brigade for over a decade. Wenger knows shit.

[Niall_Quinn]

So we shouldn’t expect a title challenge within 2 years?

:coffee:

Lying cunt. That's not what I said. I said the resources of this club should allow for a realistic challenge within 2 years and any manager who wasn't up for it SHOULD BE SACKED. Unlike Wenger who got a free pass for years.

But, being the lying cunt you are, you've tried to turn that into me saying the next manager WOULD compete within 2 years.

You are a piece of shit.

[Niall_Quinn]

I’ll keep saying it till the penny drops, but the season after Wenger left we finished 5th and we’re 2 points off 3rd. And we got to the Europa League final.

People can keep pretending that this is all Wenger if they like but it’s kinda funny watching people who said we were “coming for” City after Wenger’s departure and that we should expect a title challenge within 2 years now pretending that there’s no way anyone could do better.

We got to the Europa League final?

You have no self awareness, do you?

Does Wenger have blackmail material on you?

[Niall_Quinn]

Just check the table. We're rock bottom. Wenger's legacy has come to pass. Though, I must admit, he was far, far worse than even I imagined. He totally destroyed every facet of this club. It's a cautionary tale about people who can't change when valid change is due.

Ty and Letters will still have stiffies and a hope for a car window blow-job, but I hope when the distant history books are written Wenger gets more criticism than praise, because he deserves it. There's no point hitting the heights (which we most certainly did) if you end up crawling in the gutter. It means you spunked your load with no plan to satisfy the voracious bitch. Ferguson made it happen, and I hate the bloke. Wenger was a pale shadow who had one moment in the sun (and even the blew the big challenge).

[Marc Overmars]

What we currently have is the product of years and years of neglect. Poor recruitment, bloated contracts and a complete oversight as to where our strengths and weaknesses lie on the pitch.

It is broken beyond repair. It isn’t all Arteta’s fault but his position is the one that is the most expendable and also the one where change for the better could occur. If we had any football driven people running the club then maybe this option would be easy to take, but they’ve hidden behind Arteta and this youth project bollocks. We know it is just because they cannot be trusted to bring anyone in that could make a difference.

[Niall_Quinn]

What we currently have is the product of years and years of neglect. Poor recruitment, bloated contracts and a complete oversight as to where our strengths and weaknesses lie on the pitch.

It is broken beyond repair. It isn’t all Arteta’s fault but his position is the one that is the most expendable and also the one where change for the better could occur. If we had any football driven people running the club then maybe this option would be easy to take, but they’ve hidden behind Arteta and this youth project bollocks. We know it is just because they cannot be trusted to bring anyone in that could make a difference.

Precisely, if we had football driven people running the club.

That's where the first change MUST occur.

Anyone who turns up to an Arsenal match from this day forward must really hate the club.

[Letters]

Letters you keep coming back with the same crap after every defeat.
Well that’s a lie. I’d have RSI if I mentioned it after every defeat.

Did many on here not tell you what damage Wenger was doing to the club since 2012?.
No. Most people on here were saying that Wenger was a Bumbling Idiot and we’d end up in mid table or worse if he stayed (never happened, the last season was the closest we came and I’ve dealt with the season after he went). The claim was he was dragging us down and we’d immediately improve after he left. One of his biggest critics on here - who is now claiming improvement is impossible - excitedly said we were “coming for City” when Wenger’s departure was announced and said his expectation was a title challenge within 2 years.


Yeah I'm sure you'd like us to go back to those idyllic days of losing 5-1 to Bayern 3 times on the trot.
No. I wanted Wenger out. I just never saw it as a silver bullet and called bullshit on claims about how we’d be sweeping all before us after he left. That said, I didn’t expect us to become quite this awful. I thought Emery’s first season was a decent platform to build on and expected a decent top 4 challenge the following season. Quite how we’ve become this poor despite all the money we’ve spent is beyond me.


If you truly had any sense of introspection you would just shut up. But instead you keep harping on a trite statement that anyone was better than Wenger.
Because that is what was claimed. It was always bullshit, I said it was bullshit, it has been proven to be bullshit. If the people who claimed that back in the day had “any sense of introspection” then they’d just admit that rather than desperately trying to rewrite or reframe what they said.


”Ok....but we havent employed Mr Anyone yet". So wind your damn neck in. You were part and parcel of the Wenger knows brigade for over a decade.
We’ve had 2 anyones.
And yes, I kept the faith with Wenger far too long.
But that’s the difference, I’m admitting things I got wrong :good:

[Niall_Quinn]

I can't remember seeing us bottom of the league in my lifetime. It's incredible how this club finds new lows when you think every depth has been dived.

[Niall_Quinn]

Well that’s a lie. I’d have RSI if I mentioned it after every defeat.

Did many on here not tell you what damage Wenger was doing to the club since 2012?.
No. Most people on here were saying that Wenger was a Bumbling Idiot and we’d end up in mid table or worse if he stayed (never happened, the last season was the closest we came and I’ve dealt with the season after he went). The claim was he was dragging us down and we’d immediately improve after he left. One of his biggest critics on here - who is now claiming improvement is impossible - excitedly said we were “coming for City” when Wenger’s departure was announced and said his expectation was a title challenge within 2 years.


No. I wanted Wenger out. I just never saw it as a silver bullet and called bullshit on claims about how we’d be sweeping all before us after he left. That said, I didn’t expect us to become quite this awful. I thought Emery’s first season was a decent platform to build on and expected a decent top 4 challenge the following season. Quite how we’ve become this poor despite all the money we’ve spent is beyond me.


Because that is what was claimed. It was always bullshit, I said it was bullshit, it has been proven to be bullshit. If the people who claimed that back in the day had “any sense of introspection” then they’d just admit that rather than desperately trying to rewrite or reframe what they said.


We’ve had 2 anyones.
And yes, I kept the faith with Wenger far too long.
But that’s the difference, I’m admitting things I got wrong :good:

Eeeeee - jut. You can't even read.

[Letters]

But, being the lying cunt you are, you've tried to turn that into me saying the next manager WOULD compete within 2 years.

:lol:

I literally used the word “should” in the post you are responding too.

I’m sorry you were wrong, I’d have liked you to be right too. A title race would have been better than this shit. I’m only pointing it out because you keep saying “told you so” when you literally said the reverse.

[Letters]

Precisely, if we had football driven people running the club.

That's where the first change MUST occur.

Right. A rare moment of agreement. Which is why removing the manager was never the only thing necessary with our ownership.

But I never imagined we would become quite this rubbish. It’s almost impressive.

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol:

I literally used the word “should” in the post you are responding too.

I’m sorry you were wrong, I’d have liked you to be right too. A title race would have been better than this shit. I’m only pointing it out because you keep saying “told you so” when you literally said the reverse.

And every context you have applied suggest the opposite, being the snake you are.

Your theory is decline halts once the cause departs. And then the originator can be ignored and others attempt to halt that decline. A very convenient position for one so in love as you.

Back in the real world, the next guy has to pick up the pieces. If you recall (here's some fish food - enjoy), I wanted Arteta before Emery because I knew the idiots had a hard-on for him. Go and check the posts. I think I was the only one who said, let's get Arteta. And why?

Because my whole point was, let's not do another Wenger. Let this guy fail and then get rid. Or let him succeed if he's all that EVERY journalist claimed. Fucking journalists, eh? The people you suck off on a daily basis.

Why Arteta? Because he'd be gone by now. We wasted 2 season by hiring Emery and not scratching the Arteta itch.

Now the next guy will claim he need 2-3 seasons and so it goes on.

Not that it's anything more that an interesting psychological observation at this point. I couldn't give a fuck about what used to be a club.

But you.

You are invested, aren't you. You NEED Wenger to be something he obviously wasn't. You are infatuated. It's embarrassing.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The beautiful thing about the truth is that it will always come out no matter how long it takes.

Our truth now is that we are truly shitty washed up hasbeens; and it was the self serving philosophy of our so called legendary manager and the rudderless leadership of the Kronkes that did this to the club. The huge betrayal of the former guardians we had in the past also needs to mentioned when looking at the tragedy AFC is: and unfortunately the millions of fans globally who sucked up everything like they were under some sort of Hitleric spell.

However there is still time to change things if we accept the truth and stop bickering. We need to focus our energy on things we can solve.

ARTETA MUST GO ASAP....END OF.

We can't sack all our players, unfortunately.

We can annoy the hell out of the Kronkes and hope they do the right thing and give our club back to us. Again still a long stretch.

However, the easiest, most important and vital thing remains SACK THE ROOKIE WHO WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN HIRED IF SERIOUS PEOPLE RAN THIS CLUB.

Dithering on this will only make our Leeds like tragedy look more and more inevitable.

[Niall_Quinn]

Things have taken a dramatic turn. Turns out Norwich are shittier than us. They are now bottom. LOSERS!

We are on the up! It's happening.

[Globalgunner]

Absolutely dire clueless football on display week after week for 20 months now and we are still pretending we can turn a corner with this guy. he may have been observing Pep but her learnt nothing. Pep himself can only buy good players but at least he can do that. This dunce Arteta looks for the absolute worst players bioth within and outside and awards them lengthy contracts. I hear we have just awarded Kolasinac a new contract. Another fkker that we will never be able to get rid of

[Niall_Quinn]

Absolutely dire clueless football on display week after week for 20 months now and we are still pretending we can turn a corner with this guy. he may have been observing Pep but her learnt nothing. Pep himself can only buy good players but at least he can do that. This dunce Arteta looks for the absolute worst players bioth within and outside and awards them lengthy contracts. I hear we have just awarded Kolasinac a new contract. Another fkker that we will never be able to get rid of

It's around 8 years if you check back. The writing was huge on the wall.

[Niall_Quinn]

Also, I view Pep as a vandalism. Yeah sure, his football can work with a limitless chequebook. Which he's ALWAYS had. The fraud that he is. And I don't say fraud because he can't take advantage of that chequebook (because he can), but because it's not sport when one "genius" can rig the whole game by writing 50,000 cheques. I don't rate him at all. He's never, ever, once proven himself except in circumstances where the outcome was financially obvious. How the gypos aren't winning the CL every season is an absolute mystery and a testimony to the Pep myth.

[Globalgunner]

It's around 8 years if you check back. The writing was huge on the wall.

True and the little big man on here never wants to admit anything. He even had the effrontery to get on the Wenger out brigade with 6 months to go. Yet still espouses the notion that he was right becuae the next 3 hires didnt fix the rot that set in as far back at 2008 in my mind. we never competed seriously for the EPL from then because Wenger would handicap all his good squads with dross like Almunia and Eboue and The Swiss twins at the back. We have been a joke since them and we are now officially no longer a joke, we are a tragedy. I wont answer little Napoleons posts because all he posts is just trite waffle with no insight or impact. Self absorbed with being right even with dog poo on his face.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Can people attack the message rather than the messenger please?

[Niall_Quinn]

Can people attack the message rather than the messenger please?

No!

Because YOUR "professional" mod is ALWAYS attacking the messenger.

AS YOU ARE WELL AWARE.

[Niall_Quinn]

True and the little big man on here never wants to admit anything. He even had the effrontery to get on the Wenger out brigade with 6 months to go. Yet still espouses the notion that he was right becuae the next 3 hires didnt fix the rot that set in as far back at 2008 in my mind. we never competed seriously for the EPL from then because Wenger would handicap all his good squads with dross like Almunia and Eboue and The Swiss twins at the back. We have been a joke since them and we are now officially no longer a joke, we are a tragedy. I wont answer little Napoleons posts because all he posts is just trite waffle with no insight or impact. Self absorbed with being right even with dog poo on his face.

I think you'll find it's YOUR fault once he gets his reply in.

[Letters]

And every context you have applied suggest the opposite, being the snake you are.
No. That’s just your absolute determination to think the worst of me.


Your theory is decline halts once the cause departs. And then the originator can be ignored and others attempt to halt that decline.
No, that was your theory. The moment the announcement was made you were doing cartwheels.
I’ve covered how you said a new manager should be sacked if they didn’t deliver a title challenge in two years. You said we were “coming for” City.
I’m not picking you up for being wrong - I was wrong too, I never imagined we’d become this poor post Wenger. I’m picking you up in being wrong and then saying you predicted this all along


If you recall
I don’t. But I’ll believe you. Personally I was never convinced by Arteta but was willing to give him a chance. I believe he’s had that chance now. Emery I wasn’t excited about but thought he was a decent enough choice. The first season showed promise although the collapse at the end was…Wengeresque. It was enough to give him another season, it only really all went to shut after that.



Because my whole point was, let's not do another Wenger. Let this guy fail and then get rid. Or let him succeed if he's all that EVERY journalist claimed.
Right. Which is how it should be. And I agree Wenger’s history made that difficult, the best thing about him going is that any new manager is only judged based on how they do, it’s not coloured by what he did 10+ years previously.


I couldn't give a fuck about what used to be a club.
But you.
You are invested, aren't you.
I’m jaded by it all. I didn’t watch today, I haven’t watched any game this season. I vaguely know we have Norwich next but I’ve no idea when (think there’s an international break but no idea of the details). So I’m not that invested, certainly not like back in the day when this would have ruined my weekend. But I’d be lying if I said I was completely detached from it. I’ve found it impossible to completely ignore goings on. My overriding feeling is sadness at how far we have fallen and how much the sport I followed as a kid has changed. It’s not a sport any more.

I don’t “need” anything with regard to Wenger. It’s always nice to be proven right but I certainly didn’t get everything right. I kept faith in Wenger too long, I possibly have done the same with Arteta. I certainly never believed we’d fall this far post Wenger and as others have said pound for pound we are by a distance the worst team in the PL. Which is why Arteta has to go. Because I don’t actually believe our squad is that bad, but our team is. I have to believe that another manager would get a lot more out of this lot.

So, in brief #ArtetaOut.

[Letters]

Can people attack the message rather than the messenger please?

Are you new here?!

[Niall_Quinn]

I’m jaded by it all.

That one comment seemed real, even though you were lying about so much other stuff.

I can work wit that snippet although it would be too much effort to o so right now. There's so much to cover before we could reach level ground.

[Niall_Quinn]

Are you new here?!

Still fishing for fans?

[cricketsi]

Seriously, the amount of abuse Letters cops on here is ridiculous and unnecessary. He never says anything that outrageously unreasonable, yet seems to regularly face outright hostility. Sometimes it may be a little facetious or reductive, but as he says, he's jaded by Arsenal (and football), so coming from that perspective, it's understandable that extremely in depth analysis may not be the focus.

Continuing to blame Wenger for everything that's gone wrong at the club certainly seems more extreme and unnuanced.

Anyway, we've always got Twitter for random abuse and intolerance of opinions.

[Niall_Quinn]

Seriously, the amount of abuse Letters cops on here is ridiculous and unnecessary. He never says anything that outrageously unreasonable, yet seems to regularly face outright hostility. Sometimes it may be a little facetious or reductive, but as he says, he's jaded by Arsenal (and football), so coming from that perspective, it's understandable that extremely in depth analysis may not be the focus.

Continuing to blame Wenger for everything that's gone wrong at the club certainly seems more extreme and unnuanced.

Anyway, we've always got Twitter for random abuse and intolerance of opinions.

FUCK YOU - I hope you took that in the way it was meant. Which is as bad as you think it is.

Fucking sycophant. Grow a set.

[Globalgunner]

Seriously, the amount of abuse Letters cops on here is ridiculous and unnecessary. He never says anything that outrageously unreasonable, yet seems to regularly face outright hostility. Sometimes it may be a little facetious or reductive, but as he says, he's jaded by Arsenal (and football), so coming from that perspective, it's understandable that extremely in depth analysis may not be the focus.

Continuing to blame Wenger for everything that's gone wrong at the club certainly seems more extreme and unnuanced.

Anyway, we've always got Twitter for random abuse and intolerance of opinions.

Yeah cos a man who spent 20 years here will have no lingering effect just 3 years after he left. Totally logical. Many of the stupid players we have here today were bought by him. Yet he isnt to blame for anything. If we had gotten a proper manager after he left. Then you may have a point. Dont forget HE brought Arteta here. A walking clusterfuck of a player, before wenger bought his even worse clone called Xhaka.

[Letters]

True and the little big man on here never wants to admit anything. He even had the effrontery to get on the Wenger out brigade with 6 months to go.
Well that’s 2 lies back to back. In a previous post in this thread I admitted some things I got wrong. And it was a lot longer than 6 months. But I was certainly late to the party - that’s one of the things I have admitted.


Yet still espouses the notion that he was right becuae the next 3 hires didnt fix the rot that set in as far back at 2008 in my mind.
I was right about some things and wrong about others.
I have outlined that in this thread too :shrug:

The rest of your post is just an ad hominem attack. As Gary has suggested, if you can’t respond to what is being said then yes, don’t bother responding :good:

[Letters]

Still fishing for fans?

cricketsi :bow:

(But no, I wasn’t)

[Globalgunner]

I dont respond thats just it. So the ad hominen is the best you will get....Damn! Ive responded

[cricketsi]

FUCK YOU - I hope you took that in the way it was meant. Which is as bad as you think it is.

Fucking sycophant. Grow a set.

It's not bad at all, just unnecessary. Abusing random people on the internet is the norm, I get that, but it would be nice if it was a little less normalised.

[cricketsi]

Yeah cos a man who spent 20 years here will have no lingering effect just 3 years after he left. Totally logical. Many of the stupid players we have here today were bought by him. Yet he isnt to blame for anything. If we had gotten a proper manager after he left. Then you may have a point. Dont forget HE brought Arteta here. A walking clusterfuck of a player, before wenger bought his even worse clone called Xhaka.

Of course there's plenty that's his legacy, but I personally think the board and structures that should have existed (or should have existed) above him are more deserving of our ongoing ire.

[Xhaka Can’t]

No!

Because YOUR "professional" mod is ALWAYS attacking the messenger.

AS YOU ARE WELL AWARE.

It wasn’t aimed specifically at you.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Seriously, the amount of abuse Letters cops on here is ridiculous and unnecessary. He never says anything that outrageously unreasonable, yet seems to regularly face outright hostility. Sometimes it may be a little facetious or reductive, but as he says, he's jaded by Arsenal (and football), so coming from that perspective, it's understandable that extremely in depth analysis may not be the focus.

Continuing to blame Wenger for everything that's gone wrong at the club certainly seems more extreme and unnuanced.

Anyway, we've always got Twitter for random abuse and intolerance of opinions.

You have been here long enough to appreciate that Cripps and Zim are probably rolling there eyes wondering where you were when they needed you the most..... :haha:

Honestly, I can't help but laugh on the hypocrisy in full display...but yeah Letters is a big boy and the resident bully, he'll be ok.

[Mac76]

Are you new here?!

:lol:

[Mac76]

It wasn’t aimed specifically at you.

don't expect the world's biggest conspiracy theorist to believe that for a second, it's obviousy all another plot by the lizard people to get at him, because of course that's their whole aim in life... :rolleyes:

[Letters]

Yeah cos a man who spent 20 years here will have no lingering effect just 3 years after he left.
Which is fair. But some of the people saying this are the ones who were saying that any new manager would do better pretty much immediately
:shrug:


If we had gotten a proper manager after he left. Then you may have a point.

How do you define proper?
The manager we got might not have been a Klopp, but he’s won about a million Europa Leagues in a row (good of him to take a year off when he was with us <_<).
And actually, his first season with us did show some promise, it looked like a decent enough base to build on. It all went to shit after that.

[Letters]

Letters is a big boy
##

and the resident bully
:blink:

[Letters]

Just seen some match stats. We had 1 shot, not on target. And 0 corners :lol: :doh:

[Globalgunner]

Technically Arteta is the first manager we had since Wenger left. Emery was the coach. Who couldn't get the players he wanted and got saddled with Pepe when he asked for Zaha. Arteta was given free reign after winning g the FA cup and we have seen the expensive tripe he has brought in.

You do yourself no favours on here. Never analyse the game the players bought or even the new managers who might come in. Your sole purpose it seems is to seek vindication for Wenger being sacked even though you agreed he stayed too long in the end. Who does that?. Who seeks to be right when over a decade he has vociferously defended the man who kept bringing us lower and lower.

[Letters]

You do yourself no favours on here. Never analyse the game the players bought or even the new managers who might come in.
I really don’t follow football enough to do that.


Your sole purpose it seems is to seek vindication for Wenger.

I even didn’t bring him up in this thread. I was just responding to someone who did :shrug:

[selassie]

Let's start by dealing with the facts, Arteta is a novice, he is learning on the job at what was previously one of the biggest and most important clubs in the country. Arteta has been given a very sizeable budget and plenty of time to shape the team. He has failed, the first half of last season was enough cause for concern, our current predicament is shameful. Arteta has absolutely no credit left, he can't turn this around because he doesn't have the experience or know how, he also shouldn't be given a penny more to spend. His position is untenable IMO, he has to go now.

[Xhaka Can’t]

don't expect the world's biggest conspiracy theorist to believe that for a second, it's obviousy all another plot by the lizard people to get at him, because of course that's their whole aim in life... :rolleyes:

You know what?

I’d just like it to stop - including comments like yours that I’ve just quoted.

[Letters]

Let's start by dealing with the facts, Arteta is a novice, he is learning on the job at what was previously one of the biggest and most important clubs in the country. Arteta has been given a very sizeable budget and plenty of time to shape the team. He has failed, the first half of last season was enough cause for concern, our current predicament is shameful. Arteta has absolutely no credit left, he can't turn this around because he doesn't have the experience or know how, he also shouldn't be given a penny more to spend. His position is untenable IMO, he has to go now.
:gp:

I think that’s something we can pretty much all agree on.
It always felt like a gamble but I was willing to give him a go. He talks a good game, I basically quite like him. But he feels massively out of his depth.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Yeah cos a man who spent 20 years here will have no lingering effect just 3 years after he left. Totally logical. Many of the stupid players we have here today were bought by him. Yet he isnt to blame for anything. If we had gotten a proper manager after he left. Then you may have a point. Dont forget HE brought Arteta here. A walking clusterfuck of a player, before wenger bought his even worse clone called Xhaka.

Is that actually true?

Xhaka was signed by Wenger (but Arteta extended his contract lets not forget), Elneny & Kolisinac seem to be on the way out. Chambers & holding were also wenger signings as well as Auba & Lacazette but their contracts extended by other managers not Wenger.

Bellerin came through the youth academy was a a brilliant player up until his ACL injury (i cant remember if that was Wenger last season or emery first) but he has gone backwards since wenger left.

However, Luiz, Willian, Pepe, Partey, tieney, Cedric, Mari, Saliba, white, odegard, cellabos, torriera, all signed after wenger. Cant be blamed on him & some of those players are good so should be playing well if managed properly. Luiz was rubbish yet Arteta decided to extend his contract, less said about willian.



Even sides like Burnley, Norwich etc who fight relegation look like they have a structure in place. Their players are not hte best yet they look solid in defence at times & coherent in attack. Arsenal do not. How can sides like that look more organised than us be blamed on wenger? It is solely on the manager and his lack of ability

[Globalgunner]

Is that actually true?

Xhaka was signed by Wenger (but Arteta extended his contract lets not forget), Elneny & Kolisinac seem to be on the way out. Chambers & holding were also wenger signings as well as Auba & Lacazette but their contracts extended by other managers not Wenger.

Bellerin came through the youth academy was a a brilliant player up until his ACL injury (i cant remember if that was Wenger last season or emery first) but he has gone backwards since wenger left.

However, Luiz, Willian, Pepe, Partey, tieney, Cedric, Mari, Saliba, white, odegard, cellabos, torriera, all signed after wenger. Cant be blamed on him & some of those players are good so should be playing well if managed properly. Luiz was rubbish yet Arteta decided to extend his contract, less said about willian.



Even sides like Burnley, Norwich etc who fight relegation look like they have a structure in place. Their players are not hte best yet they look solid in defence at times & coherent in attack. Arsenal do not. How can sides like that look more organised than us be blamed on wenger? It is solely on the manager and his lack of ability

You must have missed the part where Im blaming Arteta for being a crap manager and keeping the crap players that existed before him and not selling the ones who could be sold and giving them new contracts plus buying even more crap players. What i dont accept is that Wenger had little to do with this. Hope that clears it up for you

[Ollie the Optimist]

You must have missed the part where Im blaming Arteta for being a crap manager and keeping the crap players that existed before him and not selling the ones who could be sold and giving them new contracts plus buying even more crap players. What i dont accept is that Wenger had little to do with this. Hope that clears it up for you

Clearly there were a few issues with Wenger in his last few years but he still finished in European places & won fa cup in 2017. Since then, the side has just fallen to new lows each season.

Perhaps structurally there are some issues but things that cannot be blamed on wenger are:

- lack of structure & tactics during games
- extending contracts of people like Luiz or buying willian
- managing to take a golden boot winner to couldn’t hit a barn door in space of year
- losing three games in a row with piss poor management

Most of these players didnt play under Wenger, and anyway it was 3 years ago, the club has spent millions since he left on players who should be good enough for European football. Partey, odegard, torriea etc but have been so poorly managed they have made no impact.

How can we keep blaming wenger for these shocking performances?

[Mac76]

by the way, this thread ought really to be called 'By when will Arteta be sacked?' :sulk:

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger started it and the people who are in charge now have finished it.

It’s all collective, this club has been on a slippery slope for a very long time. The blame game is meaningless, there are a whole host of people equally responsible for this mess. A football club that has lost all ambition and sight of what is important.

[Mac76]

Wenger started it and the people who are in charge now have finished it.

It’s all collective, this club has been on a slippery slope for a very long time. The blame game is meaningless, there are a whole host of people equally responsible for this mess. A football club that has lost all ambition and sight of what is important.

You really do wonder who at the club cares a jot about it, who there has any emotional connection - i suppose Edu and Arteta might as former players but they're just kids, no-one in the club management or ownership gets it

As for the players the kids care, but the older players are c***s like Kola and Xhaka or jaded like Laca and Auba

Look how Abramovic runs Chelski, he knows what he and the fans want and he gets it done - yes they've more money than us but we've a bunch of really promising young players and we should sack Arteta right now and get a good established manager in

Another loser and this club really will be finished, wr've got one more chance at this or it's decades in the wilderness for us

[Marc Overmars]

By all accounts Xhaka was ready to leave yet somehow he’s ended up with a new deal. We’ve been trying to flog Kola for probably a year but he’s in the starting 11 against the champions. Spent 30m on a CB who isn’t deemed worthy enough of the squad and sent on loan for 2 years.

It’s difficult to fathom what’s going on at this club. Run by absolute fucking donuts.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Clearly there were a few issues with Wenger in his last few years but he still finished in European places & won fa cup in 2017. Since then, the side has just fallen to new lows each season.

Perhaps structurally there are some issues but things that cannot be blamed on wenger are:

- lack of structure & tactics during games
- extending contracts of people like Luiz or buying willian
- managing to take a golden boot winner to couldn’t hit a barn door in space of year
- losing three games in a row with piss poor management

Most of these players didnt play under Wenger, and anyway it was 3 years ago, the club has spent millions since he left on players who should be good enough for European football. Partey, odegard, torriea etc but have been so poorly managed they have made no impact.

How can we keep blaming wenger for these shocking performances?

Though the blame for today's shitstorm is all down to Arteta with his medicore abilities, we're not going to solve the fundamental problems with Arsenal when we can't be objective and look at how/who laid the foundation for this lack of shame and the generally uncompetitive nature we have.

AW's biggest sin was trying to redefine the wheel, or more plainly, selling to goonerdom a new definition of what "success" is for our football club.

After the invincibles, the only thing that mattered to him was Europe, he was the first manager in the EPL to stop taking the league seriously and look at it as only a vehicle to qualifying for the CL.... his first major redefinition of "success" in AFC lexicon.

Then with the rise of Chelsea and other moneybags in football, he started coming up with the crap that any success they had was tainted because they bought it while teams like us had always achieved ours by "doing things the right way", a blatant factual lie.

He then doubled down on his CL lunacy, by then selling to us that winning domestic trophies were not important and that finishing top 2 (which later became top 4 ) every year was like winning a trophy. If there is a single statement I can blame for killing Aresnal FC, it was this one.

Then other rubbish like project youth would be the only way to secure our future, over-30 players have little value (go tell Messi and Ronaldo that) and so much other self serving crap.

In fact for so long all of us kept believing that the only success that would make sense was for us to win the CL with team youth playing a poor man's version of Barcalike football that AW had gotten a craze over....anything else, even a domestic treble would mean nothing to us.

I remember being so ashamed of our 2005 FA cup victory, mainly because we were second best to Man U for the whole game and literally just defended the whole thing out. Anytime I remember some of the crap I said that day and for months later, I feel so ashamed that I as a grown man was also one of the gullible gooners AW had infected with his narcisim.

The fact remains, that to be successful in sport, you need to compete and the true definition of competing is giving it ALL YOU HAVE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE and never imposing pseudo morals on yourself or tying your hands behind your back with any silly restrictions.

We were NEVER a poor club so we should have never acted as one... NEVER.

Spending money and achieving success in sport have always been intertwined.

Have you asked yourself why a country like the USA dominates competitive athletics. Lets take sprinting for the sake of this discussion and call it a black sport.

USA has only 40M black people, while Africa has over a billion, yet USA has dominated something as basic as sprinting for almost 80 years now. Or do we really think the fastest black people were all shipped to the USA?

We were NEVER Barcelona, we should have never tried to play like them. I mean English football has its own strengths and we were the poster boy for it at a particular time.
Tippy tappy never even dominated the CL, as Barca still got beaten more than enough times, especially by a Chelsea who became the true heirs of the early AW style.

I could go on and on, but I'm getting tired.

Our psyche as a sporting competitive club is broken and we all know who broke it.

I mean how can we, as proud gooners, be discussing if sacking a manager who has ZERO goals in 3 games and a -9 goal difference is worth it ?

A Rookie who has no documented history of success? Come on guys, what top club would stand for this kind of crap

[Niall_Quinn]

It's not bad at all, just unnecessary. Abusing random people on the internet is the norm, I get that, but it would be nice if it was a little less normalised.

Nah, it's a fair cop. You are random in terms of the amount of times I talk to you. So I apologise. You just took fire because you stood in front of the target.

You're so wrong about Letters though. Maybe because you aren't here much you don't see what he is. Either way, wrong target, misplaced fire, sorry about that.

[Niall_Quinn]

I really don’t follow football enough to do that.



I even didn’t bring him up in this thread. I was just responding to someone who did :shrug:

So coy.

[Niall_Quinn]

You know what?

I’d just like it to stop - including comments like yours that I’ve just quoted.

You're right. I'll stop.

Do me a favour though. Behind the scenes, could you ask the main instigator to have a think about his participation here? You know what I mean.

[Niall_Quinn]

Is that actually true?

Xhaka was signed by Wenger (but Arteta extended his contract lets not forget), Elneny & Kolisinac seem to be on the way out. Chambers & holding were also wenger signings as well as Auba & Lacazette but their contracts extended by other managers not Wenger.

Bellerin came through the youth academy was a a brilliant player up until his ACL injury (i cant remember if that was Wenger last season or emery first) but he has gone backwards since wenger left.

However, Luiz, Willian, Pepe, Partey, tieney, Cedric, Mari, Saliba, white, odegard, cellabos, torriera, all signed after wenger. Cant be blamed on him & some of those players are good so should be playing well if managed properly. Luiz was rubbish yet Arteta decided to extend his contract, less said about willian.



Even sides like Burnley, Norwich etc who fight relegation look like they have a structure in place. Their players are not hte best yet they look solid in defence at times & coherent in attack. Arsenal do not. How can sides like that look more organised than us be blamed on wenger? It is solely on the manager and his lack of ability

The whole style of Wengerball which killed the club and is in direct contrast to the football that won us titles is down to one man. The cotton wool players. Down to one man. The stupid mismanagement of contracts, putting the privileged interests of pampered players above the requirements of the club. Down to one man. The awful failure to recognise the steady decline and the willingness to cover it all up with bullshit, the speciality of one man.

Nothing has changed since because the very foundations of the club were destroyed.

By one man.

[Niall_Quinn]

Though the blame for today's shitstorm is all down to Arteta with his medicore abilities, we're not going to solve the fundamental problems with Arsenal when we can't be objective and look at how/who laid the foundation for this lack of shame and the generally uncompetitive nature we have.

AW's biggest sin was trying to redefine the wheel, or more plainly, selling to goonerdom a new definition of what "success" is for our football club.

After the invincibles, the only thing that mattered to him was Europe, he was the first manager in the EPL to stop taking the league seriously and look at it as only a vehicle to qualifying for the CL.... his first major redefinition of "success" in AFC lexicon.

Then with the rise of Chelsea and other moneybags in football, he started coming up with the crap that any success they had was tainted because they bought it while teams like us had always achieved ours by "doing things the right way", a blatant factual lie.

He then doubled down on his CL lunacy, by then selling to us that winning domestic trophies were not important and that finishing top 2 (which later became top 4 ) every year was like winning a trophy. If there is a single statement I can blame for killing Aresnal FC, it was this one.

Then other rubbish like project youth would be the only way to secure our future, over-30 players have little value (go tell Messi and Ronaldo that) and so much other self serving crap.

In fact for so long all of us kept believing that the only success that would make sense was for us to win the CL with team youth playing a poor man's version of Barcalike football that AW had gotten a craze over....anything else, even a domestic treble would mean nothing to us.

I remember being so ashamed of our 2005 FA cup victory, mainly because we were second best to Man U for the whole game and literally just defended the whole thing out. Anytime I remember some of the crap I said that day and for months later, I feel so ashamed that I as a grown man was also one of the gullible gooners AW had infected with his narcisim.

The fact remains, that to be successful in sport, you need to compete and the true definition of competing is giving it ALL YOU HAVE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE and never imposing pseudo morals on yourself or tying your hands behind your back with any silly restrictions.

We were NEVER a poor club so we should have never acted as one... NEVER.

Spending money and achieving success in sport have always been intertwined.

Have you asked yourself why a country like the USA dominates competitive athletics. Lets take sprinting for the sake of this discussion and call it a black sport.

USA has only 40M black people, while Africa has over a billion, yet USA has dominated something as basic as sprinting for almost 80 years now. Or do we really think the fastest black people were all shipped to the USA?

We were NEVER Barcelona, we should have never tried to play like them. I mean English football has its own strengths and we were the poster boy for it at a particular time.
Tippy tappy never even dominated the CL, as Barca still got beaten more than enough times, especially by a Chelsea who became the true heirs of the early AW style.

I could go on and on, but I'm getting tired.

Our psyche as a sporting competitive club is broken and we all know who broke it.

I mean how can we, as proud gooners, be discussing if sacking a manager who has ZERO goals in 3 games and a -9 goal difference is worth it ?

A Rookie who has no documented history of success? Come on guys, what top club would stand for this kind of crap

That's about it, on the head. One man baked second best status into a top club. And a second best attitude in competitive eventually means last place.

It's so weird that some people just can't see what happened in front of their eyes and will always find an alternative reality to dwell in.

[I am invisible]

I’ll always have time for Wenger - the man served up the best Arsenal sides and the best football I’ll probably ever see - but he 100% played his part in where we find ourselves now. For me, by far his biggest sin was the disastrous “socialist” wage structure he implemented - we’re still counting the cost of that today. If it were just the decline in coaching and standards that he oversaw then I think we could have bounced back from that pretty quickly on the playing side. What we haven’t been able to do is free ourselves from his bloated, overpaid squad. Everyone who comes in is stuck with the same group of problem players, and every year that goes by they give less of a F and get harder to motivate. By the time they get to their final years they’re not even pretending to be interested.

Let’s be honest, all of the stuff about the second best attitude comes from the owners. Sure, Wenger sowed the seed, but the Kroenkes allowed it. They were happy with it. Why was the manager even allowed to define what success looked like for the club? Of course he’s going to say that whatever he’s achieved is good enough and that he’s hit his targets if you let him mark his own paper. Where were the owners? Where was the the CEO / MD? Don’t forget, we had a 10 month period after Edelman left where we didn’t have anyone running the club at all! That should tell you everything you need to know about KSE’s expectations. Where was the DoF? We didn’t even have one of those under Wenger because he didn’t want one! Again, why was that even the manager’s choice? Of course he’s going to veto the creation of a role that oversees his and holds him to account.

And now Wenger’s gone we’re making all the same mistakes again. The owners are absent. The CEO is a ghost. The TD has been humiliated and demoted and is basically a glorified scout. And the manager is once again being allowed to decide and define everything.

I’ve lost any hope of the Kroenke’s selling up, but can we at least hire a proper CEO? I’m sure Vinnai is a very nice man - he seems affable enough - but he got grifted by a fake Chinese car company ffs! This is the man we decided should be running the club! Seriously, what does he even do? I think he’s stuck his head above the parapet twice since he took the role: once to proudly announce that he was promoting Arteta to manager (and effectively hobbling the TD at the same time) - slow clap for that; and once to get on his knees and apologise for trying to fuck over the whole of football with the ESL.

Give us that at least, KSE - a decent CEO who can then appoint a decent TD / DoF, and reset that role to sit above the manager’s again. Do that and you can fuck off to your half a million acre ranch in peace.

[Marc Overmars]

Let’s not forget Edu and what a disaster he’s been. Seems like a shady crook along with his circle of pals who’ve got their dirty hands on the club.

[I am invisible]

Fair play, you guys totally called it about Arteta. He initially impressed me in his first 8 months, and I’ve tried to be fair with him since then - give him the benefit of the doubt when I’ve seen legitimate reasons that have caused legitimate problems - but these team selections are fucking killing me now, they’re absolutely killing me!

He lost me after Villarreal, but even then I left a door open for him - with a good preseason and his own players he could have won me back. What we’ve seen so far this season has been an absolute disgrace though. It’s not the results - I could have seen us losing any of those games, and I think most of us had mentally written off at least two of them - but I really have been taken aback by how unprepared we look.

His press conference before Brentford was shocking - first game of the season and he literally sucked all of the energy and all of the belief out of the team. We should have been buzzing, even with the news about Auba and Laca! And since then it’s just been really, really basic, obvious team selection errors. Not matching up Chelsea with 3 at the back. Playing Kolasinac and Cedric and Xhaka as our only defensive midfielder against City! Fuck me.

The absolute best case scenario for him here is that he’s gone full Mourinho and is deliberately tanking our lineups to make an unnecessary point about not getting all of the players he wanted. But even that just makes him a petulant, sulky, reckless child instead of a novice who is in way over his head - neither is a good look, and both should result in an immediate P45. Unfortunately I think we’re stuck with him for a while yet.

[I am invisible]

Let’s not forget Edu and what a disaster he’s been. Seems like a shady crook along with his circle of pals who’ve got their dirty hands on the club.
This is the big worry isn’t it? Who do we trust to hire Arteta’s replacement? The guy who holidays with our disgraced former Head of Football and a super agent? The guy who signed us up to a sponsorship deal with a fake car company? The owners? Maybe we could ask Arteta’s buddy, Mertesacker?

[Munchies]

Arteta isn't even a club legend or anything of the sort

Yet Chelsea got rid of Lampard for worse and replaced him with Tuchel and won the CL.

[Mac76]

Arteta isn't even a club legend or anything of the sort

Yet Chelsea got rid of Lampard for worse and replaced him with Tuchel and won the CL.

You mean for less?

[Ollie the Optimist]

Arsenal's start to the season is the worst in Premier League history and the worst in the English top flight since West Ham in 1962-63 (0 points and -10 goal difference).

From Orbinho on twitter.

I blame wenger :coffee:

[Bumble]

Think Arseblog is right September is key. Norwich Burnley and Spurs. if we dont get at least 7 points then Arteta will be gone. but what to do next - the next manager cant be someone who likes to get the cheque book out as we have spent a shed load of cash and we struggle to get rid of players for free let alone get value for them.

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah we can’t even give some of our deadwood away let alone get a small fee, that’s what Arteta is dumped with and that isn’t his fault. Well, except for Willian that is.

There’s hardly any equity in our squad and that speaks volumes as to how poorly they’re perceived. Mud sticks, especially in football. I don’t include our young players in that because that’s where the only value in our squad lies, without them we’ve got nothing.

[Letters]

Yeah we can’t even give some of our deadwood away let alone get a small fee, that’s what Arteta is dumped with and that isn’t his fault. Well, except for Willian that is.

There’s hardly any equity in our squad and that speaks volumes as to how poorly they’re perceived. Mud sticks, especially in football. I don’t include our young players in that because that’s where the only value in our squad lies, without them we’ve got nothing.

I think this is the biggest issue Wenger left behind. I don't buy the "loser mentality" thing - even if that was a problem it's surely not a difficult one to fix. These guys have got right to the top of the game, they're clearly competitive and want to win. Get the right manager in who can motivate them and I don't think we'll have an issue there. But the contract management and wage structure is a massive mess, that is down to Wenger and it's harder to fix. That said, bullshit like Xhaka spending all summer making eyes at other clubs and then when nothing happened we offer him a new contract and make him captain for the first game. What kind of message does that send? That's the sort of nonsense we need to sort out.

[Chippy]

Yeah we can’t even give some of our deadwood away let alone get a small fee, that’s what Arteta is dumped with and that isn’t his fault. Well, except for Willian that is.

There’s hardly any equity in our squad and that speaks volumes as to how poorly they’re perceived. Mud sticks, especially in football. I don’t include our young players in that because that’s where the only value in our squad lies, without them we’ve got nothing.

Apologies if this sounds dramatic, but would any of these players have the fight for a relegation scrap? I think not.
I look at our squad, and it is very average, at best.

[Mac76]

Apologies if this sounds dramatic, but would any of these players have the fight for a relegation scrap? I think not.
I look at our squad, and it is very average, at best.

I was thinking the same, it's why they need to get rid of Arteta asap

[Xhaka Can’t]

The bulk of our lot haven’t the fight needed to win a heated friendly.

[Mac76]

Yeah we can’t even give some of our deadwood away let alone get a small fee, that’s what Arteta is dumped with and that isn’t his fault. Well, except for Willian that is.

There’s hardly any equity in our squad and that speaks volumes as to how poorly they’re perceived. Mud sticks, especially in football. I don’t include our young players in that because that’s where the only value in our squad lies, without them we’ve got nothing.

It seems to me the problem is we haven't given enough players away cheaply or for free, look at how we actually had an offer for Xhaka and turned it down, plus we turned down a good offer for AMN last summer and now we're haggling over Nketiah with Palace when we should be happy to get rid as he's useless

Arteta's got a hand in all that for sure, as they've said he's involved in all aspects, he's definitely to blame for Xhala in particular

I'd love to know what some of the players really think of Xhaka, he's supposed to really popular but my theory he's this teacher's pet who everyone has to pretend to like for fear of losing favour with Arteta, but in reality surely at least some of them must be able to see he's a c**t and probably a bit of a bully too, I bet some of them were gutted when he didn't leave

[I am invisible]

I’m sure Xhaka is a poplar enough character around the camp on a personal level, and is ok at making captain’s speeches and motivational clapping, etc, but when put under any kind of pressure his “leadership” evaporates - when we really need him to keep his head and hold us together, he becomes emotional, indisciplined and too often takes the coward’s way out, leaving his team mates in the shit. At some point you have to lose faith in him, if you’re one of the other players - how can you not start rolling your eyes at any instruction he gives you?

[Bumble]

I’m sure Xhaka is a poplar enough character around the camp on a personal level, and is ok at making captain’s speeches and motivational clapping, etc, but when put under any kind of pressure his “leadership” evaporates - when we really need him to keep his head and hold us together, he becomes emotional, indisciplined and too often takes the coward’s way out, leaving his team mates in the shit. At some point you have to lose faith in him, if you’re one of the other players - how can you not start rolling your eyes at any instruction he gives you?

Xhaka is synonymous with where we are right now, we should have sold him when we had the chance then we could move on to a new era as such. Not all our problems are his but he seems to reasonable where we are right now.

[I am invisible]

Xhaka is synonymous with where we are right now, we should have sold him when we had the chance then we could move on to a new era as such. Not all our problems are his but he seems to reasonable where we are right now.
I get why we told Roma to fuck off with their €9m offer - that’s just insulting - but it’s no excuse not to have strengthened the midfield anyway. Eddie, Willian, Nelson and at least 2 of our 4 RBs could all have been axed without any direct replacements being needed, if raising funds and freeing up wages and squad space were the issues, and we could have binned off Elneny too if a new CM pushed him out of contention. The fact that Xhaka is still one of our starting CMs is an absolute failure from Edu and Arteta.

[Mac76]

I get why we told Roma to fuck off with their €9m offer - that’s just insulting.

really? insulting to give us ACTUAL MONEY for a slow useless c**t who gives the ball away, breaks up our attacks with back and sideways pases and then gets sent off regularly - we should have grabbed it with both hands

[Chippy]

really? insulting to give us ACTUAL MONEY for a slow useless c**t who gives the ball away, breaks up our attacks with back and sideways pases and then gets sent off regularly - we should have grabbed it with both hands

This!
How can anyone defend Xhaka??
We should have taken the money straight away.
Instead, we give him another fucking contract!
OMG! This is a bloody nightmare! Arteta, Edu, Kroenke, Arteta Out! Don't wait any longer.

[I am invisible]

really? insulting to give us ACTUAL MONEY for a slow useless c**t who gives the ball away, breaks up our attacks with back and sideways pases and then gets sent off regularly - we should have grabbed it with both hands


This!
How can anyone defend Xhaka??
We should have taken the money straight away.
Instead, we give him another fucking contract!
OMG! This is a bloody nightmare! Arteta, Edu, Kroenke, Arteta Out! Don't wait any longer.
Jeez, calm down you two, no one’s defending Xhaka - no one wants him here. I’m just saying I understand why we rejected their incredibly low first offer. Whatever we think of him, he’s still a starting CM for club and country, a national team captain and was just named in the team of the tournament at the Euros - if they could afford £34m for Abraham then they could have upped their offer for Xhaka. Personally speaking, I don’t think their interest was ever that serious - they must have known that offer was going to get rejected (every first offer in every deal ever is rejected ffs) and they never came back so I reckon they were just chancing it because we’ve got a reputation for giving players away now.

[Globalgunner]

Either way you look at it Roma got the better of that deal. If Xhaka was really any good then any other team could have come for him.

If you have a 3 year old Aston Martin that gives you all sorts of problems. Its worth 100k but is always in the dealership and cant get you 100miles without calling AA.

If someone offers you 70k you accept your loss and move on. It was pure hubris on Arsenals part. We were cockeyed by his one display at the Euros and felt we had a hot item. No its the same Xhaka. Give him space and he looks like a quarterback spraying passes everywhere, even forwards sometimes. but he was suspended for The Swiss next game. Why....because its Xhaka thats why. We played ourselves. Why did we let Ozil go, why is Willian going even though we are likely gonna pay a fair chunk of his wages if he leaves. We realized that they offered no value on the pitch and were just a bad stench to leave hanging about the place.

The only reason Xhaka is still here is because Arteta obviously loves him and since Roma didnt come back we didnt want to seem to lose face by calling them again. We then compounded that stupidity by offering him a new, improved contract. Arteta is a terrible manager, awful at tactics, coaching and as we can see totally amateur at poker. We will not be able to get rid of Xhaka now. The new manager will have to get him paid off to leave. A liability every time he steps on the pitch.

[Mac76]

Either way you look at it Roma got the better of that deal. If Xhaka was really any good then any other team could have come for him.

If you have a 3 year old Aston Martin that gives you all sorts of problems. Its worth 100k but is always in the dealership and cant get you 100miles without calling AA.

If someone offers you 70k you accept your loss and move on. It was pure hubris on Arsenals part. We were cockeyed by his one display at the Euros and felt we had a hot item. No its the same Xhaka. Give him space and he looks like a quarterback spraying passes everywhere, even forwards sometimes. but he was suspended for The Swiss next game. Why....because its Xhaka thats why. We played ourselves. Why did we let Ozil go, why is Willian going even though we are likely gonna pay a fair chunk of his wages if he leaves. We realized that they offered no value on the pitch and were just a bad stench to leave hanging about the place.

The only reason Xhaka is still here is because Arteta obviously loves him and since Roma didnt come back we didnt want to seem to lose face by calling them again. We then compounded that stupidity by offering him a new, improved contract. Arteta is a terrible manager, awful at tactics, coaching and as we can see totally amateur at poker. We will not be able to get rid of Xhaka now. The new manager will have to get him paid off to leave. A liability every time he steps on the pitch.

:gp:

[selassie]

really? insulting to give us ACTUAL MONEY for a slow useless c**t who gives the ball away, breaks up our attacks with back and sideways pases and then gets sent off regularly - we should have grabbed it with both hands

What we have done with Xhaka and to a lesser extent AMN pretty much goes to show Arteta and Edu don't have a clue, they are absolutely out of their depths. Extending Xhaka's contract after he was pretty much 90% out of the door is pure madness. The AMN situation is laughable too.

[I am invisible]

What we have done with Xhaka and to a lesser extent AMN pretty much goes to show Arteta and Edu don't have a clue, they are absolutely out of their depths. Extending Xhaka's contract after he was pretty much 90% out of the door is pure madness. The AMN situation is laughable too.
The AMN situation is far more bizarre - that’s just the manager in full Mikel Vendetta mode. I get that he’s mucked us around, and his midfield demands have resulted in an extra fullback being brought in who wasn’t really needed, but he was still clearly the best option we had at RB last year, and to not make use of him is just cutting your nose to spite your face. An indulgent move that wasn’t in the club’s best interest.

[Bumble]

The AMN situation is far more bizarre - that’s just the manager in full Mikel Vendetta mode. I get that he’s mucked us around, and his midfield demands have resulted in an extra fullback being brought in who wasn’t really needed, but he was still clearly the best option we had at RB last year, and to not make use of him is just cutting your nose to spite your face. An indulgent move that wasn’t in the club’s best interest.

that is a good point... i am sure if AMN was selected to play right back he would play and do a decent job. After all most footballers want to play football. And AMN whether it was right back or midfield playing is playing. no footballers deliberately play badly to get dropped. these are guys who are competitive and have worked hard to get where they are.

[I am invisible]

that is a good point... i am sure if AMN was selected to play right back he would play and do a decent job. After all most footballers want to play football. And AMN whether it was right back or midfield playing is playing. no footballers deliberately play badly to get dropped. these are guys who are competitive and have worked hard to get where they are.
I just don’t get why this has been such a tough sell for the player and from the manager? As a midfielder, he’s nothing special and destined for a forgettable career at a team like West Brom; as a RB he was one of the best in the league, winning MOTMs all over the place and getting called up for the national side. He’d probably have spend half his time in CM anyway, given Arteta’s love of inverted fullbacks. What a waste of a year.

[Mac76]

I just don’t get why this has been such a tough sell for the player and from the manager? As a midfielder, he’s nothing special and destined for a forgettable career at a team like West Brom; as a RB he was one of the best in the league, winning MOTMs all over the place and getting called up for the national side. He’d probably have spend half his time in CM anyway, given Arteta’s love of inverted fullbacks. What a waste of a year.

got to say AMN's clearly a bit deluded - whatever our standing right now most players would still kill to be on Arsenal's books and would play wherever they were asked to, his moaning about being put at RB, where he does a good job ffs, is a bit dim - he needs a reality check.

still think the club should've sold him to Wolves when they had the chance though

[I am invisible]

got to say AMN's clearly a bit deluded - whatever our standing right now most players would still kill to be on Arsenal's books and would play wherever they were asked to, his moaning about being put at RB, where he does a good job ffs, is a bit dim - he needs a reality check.

still think the club should've sold him to Wolves when they had the chance though
We had the same thing with Theo - never passed up a chance to remind the world that he wanted to play as a CF instead of just fully committing to being a wide forward.

As you say, it’s dim because you’re not taking the chance that’s there, it’s dim because you’re not seeing the best fit for your talents, and it’s dim because it shows a lack of awareness of current trends in the game.

[I am invisible]

Behind closed doors friendly against Brentford yesterday with Ainsley playing CM :lol:

OK, I officially have no idea what the plan is with him - just gonna have to wait and see what happens…

[Globalgunner]

AMN is not very good in any position on the pitch. He should stop believing what his Mom tells him

[I am invisible]

I think his Mum mostly tells him to give her money so she can move out of the storage crate.

[LDG]

I think his Mum mostly tells him to give her money so she can move out of the storage crate.

Yo mumma so big she needs AMN to pay for the haulage

[Chippy]

AMN is not very good in any position on the pitch. He should stop believing what his Mom tells him

Spot on.
We should have sold him to Everton.

[selassie]

I think his Mum mostly tells him to give her money so she can move out of the storage crate.

:lol:

I wouldn't mind her giving Edu & Arteta a slap! Didn't she beat up one of the youth team coaches years back? :lol:

[selassie]

Apparently there is going to Kreonke out protest before the match should be interesting.

Look I'm no Kroenke fan but let's be honest, he has given Arteta a pretty much open wallet to go and spend! Kroenke is an issue in that he is very detached from it all but he is doing what he should be doing in as much as giving the Manager money to spend. Arteta has spent an absolute fortune the past two seasons and we have gone backwards!

[Letters]

Look I'm no Kroenke fan but let's be honest, he has given Arteta a pretty much open wallet to go and spend! Kroenke is an issue in that he is very detached from it all but he is doing what he should be doing in as much as giving the Manager money to spend. Arteta has spent an absolute fortune the past two seasons and we have gone backwards!
:gp:

You can pin lots of things on Kronke, but he’s certainly let us open the chequebook over the last few seasons. The fact we’ve been shopping at Poundland and paying Harrods prices isn’t his fault.

[Chippy]

Look I'm no Kroenke fan but let's be honest, he has given Arteta a pretty much open wallet to go and spend! Kroenke is an issue in that he is very detached from it all but he is doing what he should be doing in as much as giving the Manager money to spend. Arteta has spent an absolute fortune the past two seasons and we have gone backwards!
Spot on.
It's not Kroenke's fault that Edu and Arteta have pretty much wasted 140m 😂

[I am invisible]

The problem with Kroenke has never been lack of funds - it’s his absence and lack of direction, vision and oversight. All he ever had to do was appoint a good CEO to run the club and a fort balling board to oversee things and he could have faded into the background.

Edit: in that respect I think the fans have every right to protest his ownership - either get involved or hire someone competent to run the club, but stop leaving us in the hands of crooks and idiots like Gazidis, Raul and Vinnai. I swear to god they just give the job to whoever happens to be standing there when it comes up!

[Chippy]

Does anyone believe that any other result than a victory against Norwich that Arteta should be sacked? Personally, I believe he should have gone after the City game.

[Mac76]

Does anyone believe that any other result than a victory against Norwich that Arteta should be sacked? Personally, I believe he should have gone after the City game.

With you all the wqy

Kind of hoping we lose tbh to hasten his departure

[I am invisible]

If we’re talking about ‘should haves’ then he should have gone after Villarreal, so don’t get your hopes up.

The Kroenkes think they’re smarter than everyone else in the room, and possessed of level of foresight and patience that’s well beyond the average fan. After all, that’s why they’re the billionaire businessmen and we’re the angry mob of peasants. They’ll stick with it we’ll past breaking point, you watch - everything with them happens at a fucking glacial pace. And even when they do finally act, they’ll just reach for the closest, most convenient replacement - whoever happens to be standing there, asking for the job.

[selassie]

If we’re talking about ‘should haves’ then he should have gone after Villarreal, so don’t get your hopes up.

The Kroenkes think they’re smarter than everyone else in the room, and possessed of level of foresight and patience that’s well beyond the average fan. After all, that’s why they’re the billionaire businessmen and we’re the angry mob of peasants. They’ll stick with it we’ll past breaking point, you watch - everything with them happens at a fucking glacial pace. And even when they do finally act, they’ll just reach for the closest, most convenient replacement - whoever happens to be standing there, asking for the job.

Let's play devils advocate here for one minute, if say for example we sack Arteta...which we should do and should have done last season, then regardless of who comes in we are not finishing top 4 this season and I suspect we will struggle to finish top 4 next season. We are now miles behind the top 4, they are all by some distance much better teams than us, and have much better squads and managers with the exception of maybe Ole at United.

We are firmly in the 5th-10th camp and if I am honest right now I would have us behind Leicester, Sc*m and arguably Everton / West Ham on current form, in fact I am not that confident we will finish above any of those teams this season.

Getting back to us hiring a new Manager, let's say we get the best available Manager right now, Conte for example, even with him in charge this team is finishing no higher than 5th place this season. I guess the point i am trying to make is that the rebuild is BIG and I have mentally accepted that we will be spending a few more seasons out of Top 4 given the level of competition in the League at the moment, Top 4 is almost a lock for City, United, Chelsea & Liverpool, each of those sides are capable of winning the league this season, the rest aren't which is why I think any improvement will be fairly marginal in as much as 5th place is our best possible hope.

[Mac76]

I'd like Arteta to go but I'm prepared to see if he can get these new players working together.

The real test is what he does with Xhaka - if he walks straight back into the team then we can kiss this season goodbye, he destroys everything around him and if Arteta can't see that by now then there's no hope for him

[WGC Goon]

I'd like Arteta to go but I'm prepared to see if he can get these new players working together.

The real test is what he does with Xhaka - if he walks straight back into the team then we can kiss this season goodbye, he destroys everything around him and if Arteta can't see that by now then there's no hope for him

I never want to see Xhaka in an Arsenal shirt again, he epitomises everything that has been wrong with Arsenal as a football team for years now.

[Chippy]

I'd like Arteta to go but I'm prepared to see if he can get these new players working together.

The real test is what he does with Xhaka - if he walks straight back into the team then we can kiss this season goodbye, he destroys everything around him and if Arteta can't see that by now then there's no hope for him

Double standards from Arteta.

Doesnt he have a problem with Guendouzi and Salaiba's attitude when they are no where near as bad as Xhaka? :fury:

[I am invisible]

Couldn’t care less about Guendouzi - if it was just Arteta then I’d call it unfair, but every coach he’s worked with has had behavioural problems with him so far. Always starts out fine, but sooner or later there’s always something.

Hoping there’s still a way back for Saliba though - we’ve registered him as part of our squad for this year, which means he’ll count as homegrown as of next season, so that could be a sign that we’re keeping our options open with him?

[I am invisible]

I'd like Arteta to go but I'm prepared to see if he can get these new players working together.

The real test is what he does with Xhaka - if he walks straight back into the team then we can kiss this season goodbye, he destroys everything around him and if Arteta can't see that by now then there's no hope for him
The more you look at what we’re trying to do, the more he doesn’t fit - he really is the odd man out when you put him in a team with all the new faces.

Fingers crossed Partey and Lokonga put on a show against Burnley - he could literally be gambling his Arsenal career if he puts Xhaka back in the side for spurs and he costs us the game.

[IBK]

I just don’t get why this has been such a tough sell for the player and from the manager? As a midfielder, he’s nothing special and destined for a forgettable career at a team like West Brom; as a RB he was one of the best in the league, winning MOTMs all over the place and getting called up for the national side. He’d probably have spend half his time in CM anyway, given Arteta’s love of inverted fullbacks. What a waste of a year.

Thought he did OK in MF when he came on against Burnley?

[I am invisible]

Thought he did OK in MF when he came on against Burnley?
Yeah, fair play to him - he’s fighting for it! I’m still not sure his ceiling will ever lift him higher than 3rd or 4th choice CM for us, but if he can maintain that Burnley standard then I’d take him over Xhaka or Elneny.

[GP]

https://twitter.com/premierleague/status/1446430169481109505?t=Frst9WdbNncz8n8jWaHSdA&s=09

[Özim]

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/thierry-henry-arsenal-mikel-arteta-b960226.html

[Mac76]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/thierry-henry-arsenal-mikel-arteta-b960226.html%3Famp

That took me precisely nowhere

[Özim]

That took me precisely nowhere

Have updated the link.

[Letters]

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/thierry-henry-arsenal-mikel-arteta-b960226.html

I think most of us feel that way.
I’ve hopped on and off the Arteta Out bandwagon a few times.
The results after the car crash start have bought him some time, but let’s see where we are at Christmas.

[Chippy]

I think most of us feel that way.
I’ve hopped on and off the Arteta Out bandwagon a few times.
The results after the car crash start have bought him some time, but let’s see where we are at Christmas.

Great performance against the Spuds, piss poor either side against Burnley and Brighton respectfully. Are we the old / new West Ham raising our game against the so called bigger teams?

[Bumble]

Great performance against the Spuds, piss poor either side against Burnley and Brighton respectfully. Are we the old / new West Ham raising our game against the so called bigger teams?

no because we beat spurs and they are no big team. also brighton are playing really well at the moment and they have a pretty decent manager so not that much of a disgrace a draw.

[WMUG]

Win our next two games and we're 4th :faint:

Admittedly until one of the 5 teams with a game in hand on us wins the next day :lol:

[dazthegooner]

Well if it’s good enough for the spuds :unsure:

[Chippy]

no because we beat spurs and they are no big team. also brighton are playing really well at the moment and they have a pretty decent manager so not that much of a disgrace a draw.

Not a disgrace at all. However, Brighton pissed all over our midfield and we were very lucky to get a point.

[dazthegooner]

Hopefully gone tonight <_<

[Letters]

Yeah.

Off you pop, Mikel :wave:

[GP]

Bye Felicia

[dazthegooner]

So Friday then? :pray:

[Marc Overmars]

Bar one game it’s been a shit show so far and the worst part is that no one is really surprised.

Project this, project that. Cannot believe we’ve accepted this PE teacher as though he’s as good as we can get. Oh well, on to the next game and maybe we’ll see more make believe green shoots of hope we can pin ourselves on.

[selassie]

Bar one game it’s been a shit show so far and the worst part is that no one is really surprised.

Project this, project that. Cannot believe we’ve accepted this PE teacher as though he’s as good as we can get. Oh well, on to the next game and maybe we’ll see more make believe green shoots of hope we can pin ourselves on.

This. Watching us these days is painful, has been pretty much since cone boy has been in charge. Honestly, I see little to no improvement, best we can hope for is 8th again this season. I wish those at the top would get rid of him and to a lesser extent Edu. If the powers at be are willing to invest millions in the squad, at least let someone with experience have a crack.

[Letters]

Overall I’d say we are more solid defensively but at the expense of being much worse offensively.
Overall it’s all very mid table. So sure, you’ll get some good performances but a lot of very ordinary ones. It’s often pretty painful to watch.

[LDG]

Stick or twist. Do you accept we ain’t there yet, but great to watch performances like tonight or v spurs, but we will pull a few shockers?

Or you go for NOW NOW NOW, amazon football.

I’m enjoying watching this season. Been pissed off as mucb as I’ve been happy, but isn’t that watching football???

I feel like something there, more in this lot than I’ve felt for a very long time. I’d rather have that than watch the side of the past embarrassing us.

Sometimes you have to just try and enjoy football as a competitive sport, and I’ve always said, 100% effort on the pitch, you can’t expect more. At that point, it’s about whether the club is ambitious….tonight was effort and a good degree of quality.

[Letters]

Stick or twist. Do you accept we ain’t there yet, but great to watch performances like tonight or v spurs, but we will pull a few shockers?

Or you go for NOW NOW NOW, amazon football.

I’m enjoying watching this season. Been pissed off as mucb as I’ve been happy, but isn’t that watching football???

I feel like something there, more in this lot than I’ve felt for a very long time. I’d rather have that than watch the side of the past embarrassing us.

Sometimes you have to just try and enjoy football as a competitive sport, and I’ve always said, 100% effort on the pitch, you can’t expect more. At that point, it’s about whether the club is ambitious….tonight was effort and a good degree of quality.

I do agree with a lot of that. But I’m less sure about the direction of travel.
There are some promising signs and some really good young players.
But I reckon you could cherry pick performances from any of the past 5 seasons and use them as cause for optimism. Is this really different? Maybe, but I’m not convinced it is yet.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I do agree with a lot of that. But I’m less sure about the direction of travel.
There are some promising signs and some really good young players.
But I reckon you could cherry pick performances from any of the past 5 seasons and use them as cause for optimism. Is this really different? Maybe, but I’m not convinced it is yet.

Good post.

I am not sure why people are still doing this with Arteta.

He has officially had more games than Emery and Freddie combined. If we could make up our minds on both their reigns, then we should be able to make up our minds on if we are happy with the team under him or not.

At Emery's best, I saw the best of Arsenal performances I had seen in almost a decade. IMO the best of Arteta has not even come close to the best of Emery. However these one-offs didn't stop me ( and most of us) then nor now from realising that in general, the guy wasn't right for us.

As a fan, you know in your gut when your team is going the right way, it doesn't matter if you get one or 2 trophies, or not, that feeling is just there and we all know it.

I won't go on further, Arteta might feel safer than the erratic days of Emery, but "safety" was never what I imagined my club would be about (especially since AW changed that narrative)

Please lets just move on to the next chapter till we get it right.

[Marc Overmars]

Good post.

I am not sure why people are still doing this with Arteta.

He has officially had more games than Emery and Freddie combined. If we could make up our minds on both their reigns, then we should be able to make up our minds on if we are happy with the team under him or not.

At Emery's best, I saw the best of Arsenal performances I had seen in almost a decade. IMO the best of Arteta has not even come close to the best of Emery. However these one-offs didn't stop me ( and most of us) then nor now from realising that in general, the guy wasn't right for us.

As a fan, you know in your gut when your team is going the right way, it doesn't matter if you get one or 2 trophies, or not, that feeling is just there and we all know it.

I won't go on further, Arteta might feel safer than the erratic days of Emery, but "safety" was never what I imagined my club would be about (especially since AW changed that narrative)

Please lets just move on to the next chapter till we get it right.

This sums up where I am perfectly. Sincerely hope to be proven wrong but I just don’t see it with Arteta or this squad.

Granted it doesn’t help that my interest in football is at an all time low, I had no idea we were playing last night till I saw the match thread.

[selassie]

I do agree with a lot of that. But I’m less sure about the direction of travel.
There are some promising signs and some really good young players.
But I reckon you could cherry pick performances from any of the past 5 seasons and use them as cause for optimism. Is this really different? Maybe, but I’m not convinced it is yet.

Agree with this. We were really good on Friday, especially in the first half, best i have seen us play in a long time. I thought we performed even better than we did against Spurs in that first half. The thing is, the team is wildly inconsistent, I don't expect perfect performances every week, but i do expect some kind of consistency and a general higher level of performance on a weekly basis.

I'm not convinced either, we definitely need a solid run of good to very good performances to change my mind.

[Bumble]

Think Ole might go first.... i am sure Liverpool would give us a right good pasting as well but united were awful considering how much they have spent.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Think Ole might go first.... i am sure Liverpool would give us a right good pasting as well but united were awful considering how much they have spent.

Well, Steve Bruce is available.

[Chippy]

Should be gone tonight as the longer we leave, the more damage he does

Now that the last so called "Elite" Manager (Conte) has been taken by the Scum, does that make Arteta safe for the season?

I bet that OGS at Manure is feeling pretty safe now as well ;)

[Letters]

Arteta was always safe for the season unless things went really bad.
The difference is with the recent run the fans are (mostly) on board now.
Subject to change after the first bad result of course #fickle

[Bumble]

Arteta was always safe for the season unless things went really bad.
The difference is with the recent run the fans are (mostly) on board now.
Subject to change after the first bad result of course #fickle

i think you can see the plan with recruitment and we have recruited well recently.

i am going to say it as well. i reckon we will finish 4th.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I think we’re a bubble team at best

[selassie]

Arteta was always safe for the season unless things went really bad.
The difference is with the recent run the fans are (mostly) on board now.
Subject to change after the first bad result of course #fickle

TBF, Arteta is starting to build up some credit now...a loss or two against better opposition shouldn't really change that unless we perform really poorly. There have been some pleasing aspects to some of our recent peformances...but on the whole we still struggle to control games though we are managing them better, especially the latter part of games. I am still not fully convinced, the next set of games after the international break will really tell us where this team is.

[selassie]

i think you can see the plan with recruitment and we have recruited well recently.

i am going to say it as well. i reckon we will finish 4th.

Top 4 battle this season will be between West Ham, Man U, Sp*ds and us. I am not convinced we will finish top 4 though.

[Marc Overmars]

The key will be when the wheels come off and how quickly we get going again. A defeat is fine, but go and win the next few games after that and no one will care. If we keep stringing together runs of form I’m sure we will find ourselves up there in contention. The reason we’ve been mid table for 2 years is because our form has basically been win, lose, draw and repeat. We can’t allow ourselves to fall back into that aimless existence.

We’ve recovered well from that shocker of a start. Go and get yourselves a statement win next I say. No better place than Anfield for that considering how much of a graveyard it is for us.

[Letters]

I’ve written off the Liverpool game. I don’t think we are there yet.
I do expect us to have a go at Utd though. They are there for the taking. Historically we have been the go to team for clubs who are in trouble and need a confidence boosting win, we need to stop that and stand up in these games.
Christmas is the next time to look at where we are.

[selassie]

I’ve written off the Liverpool game. I don’t think we are there yet.
I do expect us to have a go at Utd though. They are there for the taking. Historically we have been the go to team for clubs who are in trouble and need a confidence boosting win, we need to stop that and stand up in these games.
Christmas is the next time to look at where we are.

Liverpool game is a write off for me too…but I just want to see us go there and compete, even if we lose it will be an improvement if we actually give them a good game. The United game is a must not LOSE if we have any ambitions of challenging too 4 properly, the Everton away game I’m looking at like Leicester now so another win. Then we have West Ham home which will be a really difficult game IMO

[Mac76]

Yeah if he turns up at Anfield with a back ten I''ll be really annoyed, we need to try to take them on a bit and try to grab a point

We can do Moan U if we get the tactics right, same with the Hammers

[Letters]

Right. I don’t mind losing at Anfield. It wasn’t losing up at City I objected to, it was the grim inevitability of the result and the absolute pasting we took. Partly because of Xhaka’s brainfart, but we were getting a spanking before then, that just made it worse.
Let’s go to Anfield and give them a game. If we lose the fine, they’re better than us. But let’s not just roll over for them.

[Bumble]

Right. I don’t mind losing at Anfield. It wasn’t losing up at City I objected to, it was the grim inevitability of the result and the absolute pasting we took. Partly because of Xhaka’s brainfart, but we were getting a spanking before then, that just made it worse.
Let’s go to Anfield and give them a game. If we lose the fine, they’re better than us. But let’s not just roll over for them.

Liverpool have conceded goals lately so no reason we couldnt nick one. Defensively we have been pretty solid too. So not inconceivable that we could smash and grab. But think if we concede first chasing the game we might struggle.

United is one i really fancy. West ham have been really good this season so that would be another good assessment of where we are. Not having europe is helping and will help against the other top 4 contenders.

[selassie]

Yeah if he turns up at Anfield with a back ten I''ll be really annoyed, we need to try to take them on a bit and try to grab a point

We can do Moan U if we get the tactics right, same with the Hammers

Aye, we need to go to Anfield and try and compete. Our defence looks relatively solid these days as does our keeper so whilst we are going to be on the backfoot, I do have confidence that they won't make stupid mistakes like our previous backs 4 of the past 10 years!!!

We should be beating Man U, but they still have a quality team so it will be a really hard game.

[I am invisible]

I don’t have any expectations about the result at Anfield, and I don’t think we should have expectations about the game plan, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have expectations.

What I want to see in this one is evidence of a step forward in discipline and mental resilience. I can handle losing by a goal or two, and being out-thought / out-fought by a better side, but what I absolutely do not want to see any more of is our players throwing a temper tantrum and leaving us down to 10 men because they’re getting frustrated, or going from 1-down to 5-down in the space of 10 minutes because we’ve completely lost our shit. And if we do lose I want to see us bounce straight back next week and not let it turn into a slump.

[Mac76]

what I absolutely do not want to see any more of is our players throwing a temper tantrum and leaving us down to 10 men because they’re getting frustrated

don't worry Xhaka's injured

btw anyone noticed how we're starting to play better and be more slick in our movement now he's not playing?

[I am invisible]

don't worry Xhaka's injured

btw anyone noticed how we're starting to play better and be more slick in our movement now he's not playing?
Yes, although I think that’s also due to having ball-playing defenders (inc. Ramsdale) who don’t need our CMs to keep dropping back out of position to get moves started, and who also have enough pace to play high so our CMs aren’t having to cover massive amounts of ground in between defence and attack.

But yes, being rid of his indulgent nonsense and limitations has felt like a real holiday!

[Mac76]

Yes, although I think that’s also due to having ball-playing defenders (inc. Ramsdale) who don’t need our CMs to keep dropping back out of position to get moves started, and who also have enough pace to play high so our CMs aren’t having to cover massive amounts of ground in between defence and attack.

But yes, being rid of his indulgent nonsense and limitations has felt like a real holiday!

i just wish i could even try and hope that Arteta would realise it but we all know he'll be straight back in the team...

[I am invisible]

i just wish i could even try and hope that Arteta would realise it but we all know he'll be straight back in the team...

Don't do it to yourself! You know he's going straight back into the side when the AFCON rolls around - the stars are all lining up perfectly for him. Again! I'm just waiting for Sambi or Ainsley to pick up a knock over Christmas to make it indisputable.

[Chippy]

Should be gone tonight as the longer we leave, the more damage he does

A bit quiet on here tonight. :tiphat:
Another false dawn, another thrashing at Anfield.
Arteta out. Our defence is a fucking joke.

[Letters]

Oh holy shit. Did you have that post typed out in a Notepad file ready to post after the first bad result? I’m disappointed at the margin of the defeat but our defence has mostly been a lot better this season. The key thing is now we react.

[Chippy]

Oh holy shit. Did you have that post typed out in a Notepad file ready to post after the first bad result? I’m disappointed at the margin of the defeat but our defence has mostly been a lot better this season. The key thing is now we react.
Not at all.
We had an unbeaten run against mediocre teams. The first real test ends in another thrashing at Anfield. We are miles away from the top four. Arteta out.

[cricketsi]

The end result was disappointingly familiar, but this was a very different spanking at Anfield from our usual outings there. We were decently competitive in the first half, and they really turned it on in the second half to ultimately blow us away.

I can take more heart from that than when they race to a 3 or 4 goal lead inside half an hour then ease off and save their energy, like we often allow them to do, and as they did against Man Utd the other week.

We already knew we were a way off their level, and this performance was nowhere near as dire as I feared it could have been. As long as the squad can learn and not have too much confidence sapped, it will hopefully be more a blip than a crashing down to earth.

[Letters]

We are miles away from Liverpool and Chelsea, probably City too.
I don’t think anyone else is obviously better than us.
Arteta’s built up a bit of good will. I’m not going to wet my pants over the first bad result.
Let’s see how we react.
He’s here for the season, we can only really assess where we are at the end of it. I’m not convinced by Arteta but I’m looking for some progress this season. At times I think I’ve seen it but today was a setback. Not a big enough one to jump on the Arteta out bandwagon though.

[Chippy]

We are miles away from Liverpool and Chelsea, probably City too.
I don’t think anyone else is obviously better than us.
Arteta’s built up a bit of good will. I’m not going to wet my pants over the first bad result.
Let’s see how we react.
He’s here for the season, we can only really assess where we are at the end of it. I’m not convinced by Arteta but I’m looking for some progress this season. At times I think I’ve seen it but today was a setback. Not a big enough one to jump on the Arteta out bandwagon though.
Ok, let's chat in May!
Nothing will change.

[Globalgunner]

All this does is delay the inevitable. West Ham can give Liverpool a game but we cant.?. What is wrong g with us. Can we beat Newcastle or Ole at United. I will guess we wont. This is where we were last season. This is where we will be this time next season. Arteta is taking us nowhere.

[Marc Overmars]

All this does is delay the inevitable. West Ham can give Liverpool a game but we cant.?. What is wrong g with us. Can we beat Newcastle or Ole at United. I will guess we wont. This is where we were last season. This is where we will be this time next season. Arteta is taking us nowhere.

Didn’t Brighton come from 2 down to get a point there as well recently? Sure Brentford got a result too. All these teams scored multiple goals against them.

I mean, we know Liverpool are one of the best teams in the world but it’s strange how we just seem to close our eyes, stick our fingers in our ears and shout la la la not happening! Whenever these kind of fixtures come around. We’ve lost by an agg of 11-0 so far to the 3 best teams in the league. The inevitability of it is what concerns me. These results should feel like a shock to the system, a real watershed moment but for us it’s just another day at the office.

Arsenal are not cut out for the big stage anymore and that’s quite evident. The mentality is that of a plucky mid table side that can punch above their weight from time to time.

The only positive I can think of is that you won’t need to be a top side to finish 4th this year. So the bar is low enough for us to aim for.

[Mac76]

The end result was disappointingly familiar, but this was a very different spanking at Anfield from our usual outings there. We were decently competitive in the first half, and they really turned it on in the second half to ultimately blow us away.

I can take more heart from that than when they race to a 3 or 4 goal lead inside half an hour then ease off and save their energy, like we often allow them to do, and as they did against Man Utd the other week.

We already knew we were a way off their level, and this performance was nowhere near as dire as I feared it could have been. As long as the squad can learn and not have too much confidence sapped, it will hopefully be more a blip than a crashing down to earth.

i kind of agree with this although i also agree with MO above too

we competed well although tbf without the exceptional talent of Ramsdale we'd have been behind sooner.

i think we were naive in trying things with the ball which gave Liverpool possession - White did it with the first goal then there was that suicidal pass from Tavares for the third (i think) goal

i guess it does ust come down to being a young team which is something we maybe need some patience with

very worried about Odegaard btw - he just seems terrible now

tbh i never got carried away with that unbeaten run - some of it was a bit fortunate wiih us playing pretty poorly for entire halves of games at times.

i still think Arteta was a mistake but he'll be there for the rest of the season i guess, unless things go drastically wrong

[I am invisible]

This does feel like the first test failed for this team, but that’s not a problem - it just means we’re not as far ahead in our progress as we were starting to hope we are and there’s more to learn. Tbf we only slapped this team together about 8 games ago, so stuff like this is going to happen along the way (esp. when your juggling as many changes and as many young players as we are, and esp. when facing one of the 3 elite sides in the league on their own patch). Sure, West Ham and Brighton went there and did a lot better than us, but then they also both lost to Wolves and Villa (who we just sparked) so read into that what you will. As others have said, City, Chelsea and ‘Pool are clearly a level above everyone else at this point - if we can show that we’re the best / 2nd best of the rest by the end of the season (I.e. 4th or 5th) then we’ll be well on track.

A bad day at the office - let’s see if this group of players has enough resilience to shrug it off and bounce back next week, even if that means a more businesslike performance while we regroup. There’s a lot of talk about needing to show consistency right now, but for me it’s more about showing resilience. Consistency only really comes through experience and repetition, and you only survive long enough to gain that experience if you’re mentally tough enough to not let these days rattle you. As I said, we failed this test - the next test is to not let it turn into a slide.

[Chippy]

i kind of agree with this although i also agree with MO above too

we competed well although tbf without the exceptional talent of Ramsdale we'd have been behind sooner.

i think we were naive in trying things with the ball which gave Liverpool possession - White did it with the first goal then there was that suicidal pass from Tavares for the third (i think) goal

i guess it does ust come down to being a young team which is something we maybe need some patience with

very worried about Odegaard btw - he just seems terrible now

tbh i never got carried away with that unbeaten run - some of it was a bit fortunate wiih us playing pretty poorly for entire halves of games at times.

i still think Arteta was a mistake but he'll be there for the rest of the season i guess, unless things go drastically wrong

Having young players is no excuse. Fergie won the League with "Kids".
We had a good unbeaten run under Emery, once again, many of those fixtures was against pub teams.
We seem to making excuses and putting up with mediocrity. Especially as you said "We competed well for 45 minutes". Not good enough for the Arsenal.

[I am invisible]

i kind of agree with this although i also agree with MO above too

we competed well although tbf without the exceptional talent of Ramsdale we'd have been behind sooner.

i think we were naive in trying things with the ball which gave Liverpool possession - White did it with the first goal then there was that suicidal pass from Tavares for the third (i think) goal

i guess it does ust come down to being a young team which is something we maybe need some patience with

very worried about Odegaard btw - he just seems terrible now

tbh i never got carried away with that unbeaten run - some of it was a bit fortunate wiih us playing pretty poorly for entire halves of games at times.

i still think Arteta was a mistake but he'll be there for the rest of the season i guess, unless things go drastically wrong
Yeah, I’m not 100% sure where / how Ødegaard fits yet, but he still has a bit of time before we need to panic - it feels like we’re still another window or two away from putting the finishing touches to the side (particularly the attack) so he might have been bought with longer-term plans in mind? I’m sure we’d rather have a single striker who offers what both Auba and Laca do, rather than having to split the job across two players - that’s kind of keeping him out of the side right now - and I also think he’d benefit massively from a confident, in-form Martinelli and/or Pepe in front of him (or, failing that, a new wide attacker to make those runs).

[Bumble]

Unfortunately OGS has been sacked which might race for 4th harder

[Mac76]

Having young players is no excuse. Fergie won the League with "Kids".
We had a good unbeaten run under Emery, once again, many of those fixtures was against pub teams.
We seem to making excuses and putting up with mediocrity. Especially as you said "We competed well for 45 minutes". Not good enough for the Arsenal.

Agreed re kids though they're still learning to play together in our case, the point about that Man Ure side was they all came through the academy together i think

But no it's not good emough for sure, at least Arteta didn't go all defensive from the outset though, that at least is progress of sorts...

[I am invisible]

Unfortunately OGS has been sacked which might race for 4th harder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhI0OVs_zj0

[Letters]

Ok, let's chat in May!
Nothing will change.

You might be right. I’m not convinced about Arteta.
But we’ve been on a good run and I’m not going to overreact to a bad result, I don’t think we should overreact to the good run either.
But yes, let’s see where we are in May.

[I am invisible]

You might be right. I’m not convinced about Arteta.
But we’ve been on a good run and I’m not going to overreact to a bad result, I don’t think we should overreact to the good run either.
But yes, let’s see where we are in May.
:good:

I think it’s fair to have little ‘how’s it going’ reviews after every 10 games or so - you’ve got to have something to talk about throughout the year - but not after every single result. That’s gonna wear us all down pretty quickly.

[selassie]

Unfortunately OGS has been sacked which might race for 4th harder

TBH, any top 4 finish needs to be because we have performed to a standard required for CL football the next season. As it happens, we still do not look a CL level team to me. Finishing top 4 would be nice this season, but I would rather we got the squad right first and start performing regularly at a consistently high level. We still have a lot of work to do, i would say we are only marginally better than last season.

[Marc Overmars]

4th would obviously be great but for now I just want to see a team that’s capable of creating chances, scoring goals, dominating possession. If we do that we will always stand a chance of winning any match.

I feel like we play football in patches and only really turn up for portions of a match. It’s just too robotic for me and I don’t believe we’re doing much off the cuff, it’s all telegraphed stuff from the training ground.

Only 7 goals from open play is quite telling and having been here for 2 years now I don’t see anything changing from an attacking sense with Arteta, it’s the lowest scoring Arsenal side for a generation. We have a pair of strikers we spent over 100m on but they’ve declined badly under him and I have no doubt it’s down to the style of play that leaves them neutered and isolated.

We should be looking to smash Newcastle this weekend and get some confidence flowing. I don’t feel like this team believes it can score goals at will and that’s what needs to change. We have a decent squad but I feel like it just lacks some inspiration and belief in itself.

But as I said previously the best thing about this season is that it looks like you will not need to be a great team to finish 4th, so we should at least count ourselves in that conversation.

[Chippy]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59416587

:doh:

[Letters]

:dance:

[dazthegooner]

Well it's working with Fergie at Manure :unsure:

[Letters]

Well it's working with Fergie at Manure :unsure:

:lol:

I still have a lot of respect for Wenger and wouldn't mind him having some role - not sure exactly what that role should be tbh.

[Chippy]

:lol:

I still have a lot of respect for Wenger and wouldn't mind him having some role - not sure exactly what that role should be tbh.

I also have respect for Wenger, he brought the glory years back to Arsenal, no doubt about that.

However, I am not sure what message this sends out. Arteta (IMHO) is asking for help because he is struggling.

[Globalgunner]

Dumb being backed up by Dumber. Perfect combination. You let Wenger back in at your peril

[Letters]

Oh yeah, things have got loads better since he left.
Imagine calling a man with a degree in Economics and who speaks at least 3 languages “dumb”
:rolleyes:

[Mac76]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/59416587

:doh:

My reaction too, like wtf?

Given Wenger supports daft ideas like having a World Cup every two years, plus stopped giving a damn about what the players did on the pitch about five tears before he left, why do we want him back?

To coin a phrase - Arsene Wenger? No thanks

[Letters]

stopped giving a damn about what the players did on the pitch about five years before he left,

What do you mean by this, out of interest?

[Mac76]

I just mean he seemed to just say "go out and play", there didn't seem to be much more to it than that

[Letters]

Ah. I actually think he was always a bit like that.
I don’t think he was ever a master tactician.
But when you’ve got better and fitter players than other clubs, which he did in his early time with us, and when you’ve got captains like Adams or Vieira then it kinda works.
Could be a reason we never made it in Europe.

[selassie]

:dance:

:d

[selassie]

My reaction too, like wtf?

Given Wenger supports daft ideas like having a World Cup every two years, plus stopped giving a damn about what the players did on the pitch about five tears before he left, why do we want him back?

To coin a phrase - Arsene Wenger? No thanks

I appreciate Arsene for what he did and the great heights he took us to but i want him nowhere near the club now. He would be too involved in my opinion, by right in some ways and I don't want that.

I am not sold on Arteta but Wenger left and that should be that.

[Ralpheroo72]

Tonight with a bit of luck

[Xhaka Can’t]

Tonight with a bit of luck


Improved contract is more likely.

[selassie]

It's blatantly obvious Arteta is out of his depth, we wont get anywhere with him in charge. Same as it ever was.

[Letters]

It's always one step forward, two steps back with these twats.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It's always one step forward, two steps back with these twats.

I seem to have missed the steps forward.

[Letters]

I seem to have missed the steps forward.

A few games ago we were on a good run and there were a few tentative good signs. The Leicester result was good.
And it was good that after the Anfield game we bounced back and won the next one.
Old Trafford was annoying but actually I thought the performance was OK. But tonight...well, I didn't see it. But it's just textbook Arsenal.
Need a result. Game against a struggling side. So...you know the rest.
Wankers.

[Marc Overmars]

Arteta may well go on to have a noteworthy career but as I said in the match thread, he’s not an Arsenal manager. Sometimes a certain style and philosophy doesn’t suit a club and that’s the problem we have here.

[Xhaka Can’t]

A few games ago we were on a good run and there were a few tentative good signs. The Leicester result was good.
And it was good that after the Anfield game we bounced back and won the next one.
Old Trafford was annoying but actually I thought the performance was OK. But tonight...well, I didn't see it. But it's just textbook Arsenal.
Need a result. Game against a struggling side. So...you know the rest.
Wankers.

We were on a run…against teams you’d expect to beat, and even then we did not look good other than in fits and starts.

The Leicester result seemed good at the time. Leicester’s record since then indicates it wasn’t the great result it appeared to be at the time.

[Letters]

Sure, there were no really outstanding results...but we were at least getting results, we weren't at the start of last season.
We continue to fail the bigger tests at every opportunity :ilt:

[Ralpheroo72]

Problem is, who is out there with any calibre? Next appointment is critical, we cant experiment, or hire an interim fix.

[dazthegooner]

Yep all the managers that were available during this season have now secured jobs elsewhere (not sure I would have wanted Conte) so looks like if there is going to be any change it will have to be next season :(