Quote Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie View Post
I honestly think if fans start whinging despite what the results and performances are, it's easier for the club and the media to pin them as being difficult, entitled and unreasonable.

But still comes back to the point, what are you personally doing to get Wenger out of the club?. You point the fingers at other people but what are you doing rather than sitting back and being critical.....which seems a rather comfortable position to take.

And again the arrogance to tell people what they should or shouldn't enjoy. People being happy with a one off result doesn't mean they are happy with the season and this preoccupation with yours that fans have to be miserable and testy at all times in case Wenger is able to use it to embolden himself is frankly bizarre.

What i'm hearing from you is your own sense of insecurity, that in fact you are deflecting your own sense of nervousness and unhappiness with us winning because it makes Wenger more likely to stay. If you were honest enough to admit that i would have more sympathy, I don't think there is a single person on this site who wasn't concerned that finishing top four would confirm Wenger staying and without any checks and balances on his excesses.....and that includes myself.

But if you are going to every single game because you are a dedicated fan, and you find the constant bad atmosphere and toxicity draining, why on earth would you seek to look for it. People don't revel in it, it's exhausting and depressing so like I say if they want to just have some enjoyment from a result and a performance that wasn't terrible.....I find it bizarre that you resent this so much.

Or actually I don't, I would expect someone who feels that way to be more prepared to take matters into their own hands but you won't will you. You will be content sitting back and blaming other people.
We've seen it before with other clubs and it's not how it's painted at all, the media love a bit of news your scenario would not happen IMO.

I don't put money into their coffers for a start, if everyone did that they'd soon change, however this isn't about me, clearly people will still turn up, so if they want to their entitled to, but at the same time if they want Wenger out (which you say they do) then what just sit there and accept whats going on...is that what you're saying? No wonder Wenger is comfortable, match fans from other clubs kick up a fuss when they're not happy with something but at Arsenal it's all swept under the carpet....and you wonder why we're in a position we are?

Yes I do think winning makes him more likely to stay, it like is has in previous years papers over the cracks, yes we have picked up a few wins, but lets logic at it objectively, what do these wins actually mean in the grand scheme of things, what relevance do they have?

So as a fan who gos to matches and wants change, it's better to sit there and do nothing because it becomes toxic if you do and you don't enjoy it? That must mean they are happy with what they are seeing in that case, or at the very least not that unhappy. I don't get how you can get enjoyment out of see this club in such a mess to be honest and watching a few matches paper over the cracks, the manager himself has been getting more smug with every game, is that a pleasurable scenario, he's even now said we don't need to change much.

My understanding of your argument is, let's get Wenger out but let's not say or do anything during match days and let's keep going to games, ok fine but that guarantees he'll stay and if that's the case then people clearly can't want him out enough if they know that.

I'm not blaming others btw, I'm just saying that if people do want him out (which you and many others say they do) then surely acting in the same way they have in the last 10+ years isn't going to achieve that. IMO the respect for Wenger is way over the top, at any other club he would have been houdned out by now (by the fans), but it seems at Arsenal it's not the done thing for some reason.