Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

[Letters]

I think there are a fair number at the Giroud or Welbeck level but that isn't going to push us on.
There aren't many at the very top level who we have a realistic chance of getting.

[selassie]

I'm not convinced they are, and it's not even necessarily about money. Assuming we were prepared to spend 60million on Lewandowski or Aubemeyang.....would they want to join us, or would they want to wait until a bigger club comes calling.

I don't even think we need a Lewandowski level type signing to upgrade on Giroud. Sure Lewandowski would be a dream signing and one that would elevate us but he's not obtainable and we are a step down from Bayern. Aubameyang may be possible but as you said he would cost a fair bit and we would face heavy competition.

When I say we are not prepared to spend, what I actually mean is that I don't believe Wenger sees value for money in buying say an Icardi, Morata or Dybala for say 40-50million, even someone like Lukaku...though I'm not totally sold on him. I personally feel we should be looking at a second tier striker like those names I have mentioned, someone who is young with room to grow and develop into a top class striker.

We know how much these types of strikers cost now and their value won't plummet so we either buy in that market or continue to suffer.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I've not seen anything of Morata that convinces me he is better than Giroud in terms of overall goals.....Juventus aren't going to sell Dybala and as for Icardi the jury is out.

I agree with you in that we are so risk adverse in that we are not prepared to make a big outlay on a player with the potential to be better than what we have, as for it being a sure thing and they are glaringly out there. No I'm not convinced.

I'm personally not convinced by Dybala or Morata, Icardi i'm not sure...we have to accept that whilst Wenger is manager we are going to play his style of football and that means a striker who will need to hold up the ball more than Icardi would. In that regard i would probably go for someone like Islam Slimani and have him link up with his international team mate Mahrez.

[selassie]

I've not seen anything of Morata that convinces me he is better than Giroud in terms of overall goals.....Juventus aren't going to sell Dybala and as for Icardi the jury is out.

I agree with you in that we are so risk adverse in that we are not prepared to make a big outlay on a player with the potential to be better than what we have, as for it being a sure thing and they are glaringly out there. No I'm not convinced.

I'm personally not convinced by Dybala or Morata, Icardi i'm not sure...we have to accept that whilst Wenger is manager we are going to play his style of football and that means a striker who will need to hold up the ball more than Icardi would. In that regard i would probably go for someone like Islam Slimani and have him link up with his international team mate Mahrez.

Fair points, can't argue against them. I definitely agree with you in that we are risk averse, well Wenger/Arsenal are in general. I don't think Morata is an upgrade on him right now but I personally think he/Wenger would develop him to a very high level, he's got all the attributes to be a top class player IMO.

Yeah we've missed the boat with Dybala, from what I've seen of Icardi he has a lot of raw potential, he is definitely different to Giroud, more of a poacher, but his hold up play isn't bad and would improve here. I think like Morata, Icardi has high potential. I personally think we should just bite the bullet and bring in someone now who can deliver but has room to grow.

I'll be honest I've not seen much of Slimani but I've heard he is rated. Mahrez I would love but can't see it.

[Özim]

I think there are a fair number at the Giroud or Welbeck level but that isn't going to push us on.
There aren't many at the very top level who we have a realistic chance of getting.

Giroud and Wellbeck are just above average there are plenty of strikers better than them, you're just make excuses, if we stump up there's plenty of strikers we could have got, trouble is we're too cheap.

[Letters]

:lol: I'm not making excuses. We should be signing someone who will push us on.
But players at the level who would don't grow on trees.

[fakeyank]

I agree with Letters that players of the quality that will improve our squad do not grow on trees. I cannot think of a realistic player other than Lukaku who I believe is possibly available now... even then, I think he is a money grabbing cunt who will leave us if another big money offer comes in.

What I cannot understand one bit about this situation is why the manager or any of his minions ever suggest a different system of play? Walcott is pretty wasted everywhere, why not play him with another striker like Giroud? Or how about playing Sanchez upfront with Giroud? Why bench Campbell when he was doing well on the wings?

Money can solve many things in life and football.. since we dont want to splash the cash, why not try something different because what we are trying clearly isnt working?! No Plan B or C ever.. frankly our plan A is pretty shitty too.. and this more than Wengers reluctance to spend money takes the piss for me. I cannot stand the mans stubbornness and rigidity. He cannot leave soon enough!

[Niall_Quinn]

Always.

Always...

If the manager repeatedly fails to do his job, assuming his job is still to manage the team, if this goes on season after season then isn't it legitimate to criticise him? If criticism is dismissed as "whining" then this gives a free hand and zero consequences for the policy that has handicapped the club to continue, does it not? For people who still have an outside interest in Arsenal, the club they may have supported since childhood and in many cases the club they pay a rather large amount of money to watch play, isn't it right they also demand a return on their investment? Plenty of money has gone in. What has come out? 2 FA Cups? For a club the size of Arsenal? Using the topical Tesco as an analogy, if that was the only shop in the world (captive fan base) and all they sold was bags of shit at super inflated prices, without your increasing complaints how would you hope to change their policy? And if you were holding your expensive bag of shit at the checkout and happened to mention you were pretty pissed with the deal you were suffering, what would you think and do if the cashier told you to stop whining? I think a punch in the face would be just about right - don't you?

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol: I'm not making excuses. We should be signing someone who will push us on.
But players at the level who would don't grow on trees.

We're not asking fruit pickers to find them. We're asking supposedly elite and extremely well paid individuals to do that job. A job that every other club seems to manage. Why should our expectations be different at Arsenal?

[Letters]

We're not asking fruit pickers to find them. We're asking supposedly elite and extremely well paid individuals to do that job. A job that every other club seems to manage. Why should our expectations be different at Arsenal?

They shouldn't.

[Niall_Quinn]

Fair points, can't argue against them. I definitely agree with you in that we are risk averse, well Wenger/Arsenal are in general. I don't think Morata is an upgrade on him right now but I personally think he/Wenger would develop him to a very high level, he's got all the attributes to be a top class player IMO.

Yeah we've missed the boat with Dybala, from what I've seen of Icardi he has a lot of raw potential, he is definitely different to Giroud, more of a poacher, but his hold up play isn't bad and would improve here. I think like Morata, Icardi has high potential. I personally think we should just bite the bullet and bring in someone now who can deliver but has room to grow.

I'll be honest I've not seen much of Slimani but I've heard he is rated. Mahrez I would love but can't see it.

We missed the boat every time. That's liable to happen when the boat fare is x but you insist on making x - 50% offers at the ticket counter. No boat ride for you, stump up or swim. We don't even swim. We tread water.

[Letters]

If the manager repeatedly fails to do his job, assuming his job is still to manage the team, if this goes on season after season then isn't it legitimate to criticise him?
Yes. And I've said clearly he should be sacked.

But taking every opportunity to whine about absolutely every sodding thing and, if there isn't one, making one up is a bit tiresome.

[Niall_Quinn]

They shouldn't.

Exactly. And yet Gazidis reckons the opposite. A bloke that claims we can't compete when the club is swimming in money. He's got zero credibility. Same as the manager. The only thing impressive about these two is the rate they produce zero credibility excuses.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes. And I've said clearly he should be sacked.

But taking every opportunity to whine about absolutely every sodding thing and, if there isn't one, making one up is a bit tiresome.

His mistakes link, one to the next. He's a catalogue of calamity. How many knock on effects will we see again due to his refusal to prepare the team properly? And then to top it off he gets the hump when people point out these repeated mistakes. So what do you do with a guy like this? Concede? Keep quiet? Let him get on fucking it up over and over? If constant criticism sounds like whining then maybe that's just the whirlwind effect as his detractors try to keep pace with his fuck ups.

[Power n Glory]

I agree with Letters that players of the quality that will improve our squad do not grow on trees. I cannot think of a realistic player other than Lukaku who I believe is possibly available now... even then, I think he is a money grabbing cunt who will leave us if another big money offer comes in.

What I cannot understand one bit about this situation is why the manager or any of his minions ever suggest a different system of play? Walcott is pretty wasted everywhere, why not play him with another striker like Giroud? Or how about playing Sanchez upfront with Giroud? Why bench Campbell when he was doing well on the wings?

Money can solve many things in life and football.. since we dont want to splash the cash, why not try something different because what we are trying clearly isnt working?! No Plan B or C ever.. frankly our plan A is pretty shitty too.. and this more than Wengers reluctance to spend money takes the piss for me. I cannot stand the mans stubbornness and rigidity. He cannot leave soon enough!

That's what really bothers me. I can almost understand not wanting to spend £40-£60 on strikers. But I can't understand why he hasn't tried something new with our internal options. Try a new system with Bif working off a quicker player behind him. Ozil playing behind Bif doesn't work. We need either a more aggressive player playing in Ozil's position or a quicker and more mobile player in Bif's position. I don't want to see us go into next season with the same tactics and set up as last hoping something will be different.

[Niall_Quinn]

That's what really bothers me. I can almost understand not wanting to spend £40-£60 on strikers. But I can't understand why he hasn't tried something new with our internal options. Try a new system with Bif working off a quicker player behind him. Ozil playing behind Bif doesn't work. We need either a more aggressive player playing in Ozil's position or a quicker and more mobile player in Bif's position. I don't want to see us go into next season with the same tactics and set up as last hoping something will be different.

Well you're going to be disappointed because I imagine that's precisely what he intends to do. If you don't succeed the first 12 times then 13 will be the charm.

[Letters]

His mistakes link, one to the next. He's a catalogue of calamity. How many knock on effects will we see again due to his refusal to prepare the team properly? And then to top it off he gets the hump when people point out these repeated mistakes. So what do you do with a guy like this? Concede? Keep quiet? Let him get on fucking it up over and over? If constant criticism sounds like whining then maybe that's just the whirlwind effect as his detractors try to keep pace with his fuck ups.

Oh stop the hyperbole, we finished 2nd, we didn't go down.
We should have won the league last year, we'll probably never have a better chance to. And for that he should be sacked. But some people, and you have become one of them, just criticise EVERYTHING he says or does, even if you agree with it. That's where it just gets tiresome. And, worse, you WUM someone like me by labelling me an 'AKB' if I gently suggest that maybe, while clearly past it, he's not the stupidest person on God's earth.

[Power n Glory]

Well you're going to be disappointed because I imagine that's precisely what he intends to do. If you don't succeed the first 12 times then 13 will be the charm.

A tactical change is so unlikely. By the time he's made a shift we'd have lost key players and other areas need addressing. During the Cesc era it took him years just to switch to a 4-3-3 formation and to stop playing guys like Eboue and Diaby on the wing. He never had the sense to play a Cesc and Rosicky/Nasri in the middle combo like we've seen over the past couple of seasons with Santi and Ozil playing there. He's not getting the best out the team and he's wasted the time of some very talented players.

[Power n Glory]

Oh stop the hyperbole, we finished 2nd, we didn't go down.
We should have won the league last year, we'll probably never have a better chance to. And for that he should be sacked. But some people, and you have become one of them, just criticise EVERYTHING he says or does, even if you agree with it. That's where it just gets tiresome. And, worse, you WUM someone like me by labelling me an 'AKB' if I gently suggest that maybe, while clearly past it, he's not the stupidest person on God's earth.

No idea why you continue to pick at this. If it's tiresome move on! Why continue to pick the same fight on a daily basis with the same people?

[bignev]

No idea why you continue to pick at this. If it's tiresome move on! Why continue to pick the same fight on a daily basis with the same people?

Letters is right though

[Letters]

No idea why you continue to pick at this. If it's tiresome move on! Why continue to pick the same fight on a daily basis with the same people?

Because I want the messageboard to restore a bit of balance and actually debate things rather than being utterly blinded by all this bile.
It's ridiculous and I'm far from the only person who is sick of it.

[selassie]

Because I want the messageboard to restore a bit of balance and actually debate things rather than being utterly blinded by all this bile.
It's ridiculous and I'm far from the only person who is sick of it.

That's going to be difficult under the current regime, the general vibe on here right now is similar to many Arsenal Messageboards, what do you expect?

I do get where you are coming from with wanting balanced debates but I stand by what I said above.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh stop the hyperbole, we finished 2nd, we didn't go down.
We should have won the league last year, we'll probably never have a better chance to. And for that he should be sacked. But some people, and you have become one of them, just criticise EVERYTHING he says or does, even if you agree with it. That's where it just gets tiresome. And, worse, you WUM someone like me by labelling me an 'AKB' if I gently suggest that maybe, while clearly past it, he's not the stupidest person on God's earth.

"He should be sacked", is just your safety valve.

[Niall_Quinn]

A tactical change is so unlikely. By the time he's made a shift we'd have lost key players and other areas need addressing. During the Cesc era it took him years just to switch to a 4-3-3 formation and to stop playing guys like Eboue and Diaby on the wing. He never had the sense to play a Cesc and Rosicky/Nasri in the middle combo like we've seen over the past couple of seasons with Santi and Ozil playing there. He's not getting the best out the team and he's wasted the time of some very talented players.

He desperately needs a right hand man that will tell him what he needs to hear and somehow make him hear it. But if even a legend like Henry gets booted for making the mildest observations then there's no real prospect of that. Xhaka's a very good player, but you can see so clearly why he has been brought in and why Wenger coveted him. He's ideal for Wenger's preferred system. We're probably seeing the best football we'll see all season during the pre-season. The kids were given a bit of license to play their game and it was fun to watch. But all that will tighten up come season kick off.

[Niall_Quinn]

Because I want the messageboard to restore a bit of balance and actually debate things rather than being utterly blinded by all this bile.
It's ridiculous and I'm far from the only person who is sick of it.

What balance? It's a one way street. Cash in, excuses out. Season after season. Where's the balance? You have a message board that reflects the reality. But you want one that reflects fantasy, an even mix of the bad that's gripped the club and seeped into every corner and the good that... remind me, what's the good bit we need to dedicate 50% of our time to?

[Power n Glory]

Letters is right though

Great. He's right. Now what?

[Letters]

That's going to be difficult under the current regime, the general vibe on here right now is similar to many Arsenal Messageboards, what do you expect?

I do get where you are coming from with wanting balanced debates but I stand by what I said above.

I expect people to be rational, at least. Especially in the close season when there's no heat of the moment anger which is understandable just after a poor result.

[Power n Glory]

Because I want the messageboard to restore a bit of balance and actually debate things rather than being utterly blinded by all this bile.
It's ridiculous and I'm far from the only person who is sick of it.

Find more people to post on GW if you want more balance. Engage with other posters that make points about transfers and other topics if you're trying to encourage different discussions. Right now all you're doing is feeding into the nonsense. Other posters who are sick of it can speak for themselves.

[Letters]

Great. He's right. Now what?

Now how about a bit of sensible debate rather than an endless moanathon. Is that too much to ask?

[Kano]

I don't even think we need a Lewandowski level type signing to upgrade on Giroud. Sure Lewandowski would be a dream signing and one that would elevate us but he's not obtainable and we are a step down from Bayern. Aubameyang may be possible but as you said he would cost a fair bit and we would face heavy competition.

When I say we are not prepared to spend, what I actually mean is that I don't believe Wenger sees value for money in buying say an Icardi, Morata or Dybala for say 40-50million, even someone like Lukaku...though I'm not totally sold on him. I personally feel we should be looking at a second tier striker like those names I have mentioned, someone who is young with room to grow and develop into a top class striker.

We know how much these types of strikers cost now and their value won't plummet so we either buy in that market or continue to suffer.

Think of it this way, if Higuain at 29 in the 4 or 5th best league in Europe can go for £75m, what is Aubameyang at a younger age and proven at in a better league going to go for? Inter Milan are turning away bids for Icardi and saying not for sale. Juventus bought Dybala last season and won't be selling him at all. Morata at £50m+ is absurd. Strikers that can score are being clung onto because replacing them is extortionate and far from easy given the midfield heavy environment. The only reason I'm concerned about us paying £60/70m for someone unproven is the impact that would have on other areas of the team we could strengthen. Whether we can or should go into debt because of transfers doesn't matter because we all know the policy of our club; spend what we have. £100m could be spent in a window by ourselves without causing us hassle I think (based on our accounts) and nearly all of that would come from one striker. When we need a defender and a wide player too. We could sell on one or two like Theo, Ox etc but even the journalists can't be bothered to make up stories about that - no-one wants them it seems. I'm just trying to think things through realistically taking into account the money we would and could spend, against current market values and who actually would be for sale. The list really isn't that long.

[Power n Glory]

Now how about a bit of sensible debate rather than an endless moanathon. Is that too much to ask?


You hardly ever chime in for any other debate unless NQ and Zim have said something about Wenger. You're not helping.

[Kano]

"Arsenal have not come back [with another offer] and they will not come back," Aulas told L'Equipe. "No one will leave OL, except for Rachid Ghezzal if he has an offer, which I doubt."

That's one less rumour to worry about.

[Gooner23]

Not too fussed, he looks a bit average to me.

[Özim]

Not too fussed, he looks a bit average to me.

Looked good to me and his goal record has been consistently good, it's looking more and more likely that we'll end up with noone or worse still some inconsistent nobody we'll be stuck with for years like we have been in the past.

[Özim]

That's going to be difficult under the current regime, the general vibe on here right now is similar to many Arsenal Messageboards, what do you expect?

I do get where you are coming from with wanting balanced debates but I stand by what I said above.

Exactly as it stands this football club is turning into some horrible business, that doesn't give a damn about the fans, that spends the minimum possible and which views success on the pitch way down the list of priorities, we're basically profit maximisers with zero incentive to win.

It's not just the lack of success either, it's the day to day nonsense we have to put up with as well as the fact the club is devoid of any excitement or unpredictability, I honesly think pound for pound it's really one of the worst clubs around now for value for money, the fans put a lot in and get very little out.

[Özim]

What balance? It's a one way street. Cash in, excuses out. Season after season. Where's the balance? You have a message board that reflects the reality. But you want one that reflects fantasy, an even mix of the bad that's gripped the club and seeped into every corner and the good that... remind me, what's the good bit we need to dedicate 50% of our time to?

Spot on, there's still some people who just can't see the truth, it amazes me, this club treats it's fans terribly, in fact I don't know many if any other clubs that treats fans the way it does and gets away with it, yes we got 2nd place, so what? Our football is boring, we make the same mistakes every season, have the same problems with transfers every season, have loads of injuries every season and collapse lke a house of cards when the pressure is on to win the big prizes in the same way every single season.

Joke of a club right now and a shadow of what this great club use to stand for and yes Wenger takes a lot of the blame for that as well as his other cronies as he's been heavily involved in creating this.

I'd really like to know what's good about this club as a football club right now, apart from the fact we're rolling in it that is, because that's an irrelevance really as it's not re-invested.

[Munchies]

Lyon expect no more Lacazette bids - SSN

:coffee:

[Munchies]

Mahrez apparently staying at Leicester

A few papers reporting it and those in leicester

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CokBG4wXgAAgWeX.jpg

:coffee:

[Munchies]

http://i.imgur.com/GOaQSD7.jpg?1

:coffee:

[Munchies]

Can't even react to this stuff

It's just inevitable.

2 weeks to go, shockingly short again.

The club is done for the time being. With the way it is being run, I feel nothing for it anymore.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Get Varane in, Fekir if we wAnt to be cheap and a bloody forward. Just any forward will do at this point!

[Niall_Quinn]

Apparently Utd have banked £76mill in Ibrahimovich shirt sales in one week. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's the claim. If true then Ibrahimovich is effectively free and it's demonstration of how thinking big and going big can be cheaper than being a skinflint, plus of course you get an energised fan base and one investment feeds on another until the process becomes self funding. I wonder how much of Pogba's fee will be covered in the same way?

Meanwhile, Sanogo, Welbeck, Giroud and Theo shirts sales. Anyone know how they are doing?

[Munchies]

Apparently Utd have banked £76mill in Ibrahimovich shirt sales in one week. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's the claim. If true then Ibrahimovich is effectively free and it's demonstration of how thinking big and going big can be cheaper than being a skinflint, plus of course you get an energised fan base and one investment feeds on another until the process becomes self funding. I wonder how much of Pogba's fee will be covered in the same way?

Meanwhile, Sanogo, Welbeck, Giroud and Theo shirts sales. Anyone know how they are doing?

Yeah I saw that too. I imagine adidas take the majority, but then again, that's why adidas pay United a ton. Far trumps our shit Puma deal.

I'd burn Walcott and Sanogo's shirt (good guy, but has no business even being in our squad)

Last time we had genuine buzz was for Ozil. Those pictures of all the fans in Ozil shirts were all over the place.

[Munchies]

If Wenger put another £27m for Higuain in the same Summer, we'd have won the league 2 times by now

[fakeyank]

Apparently Utd have banked £76mill in Ibrahimovich shirt sales in one week. I don't know if that's true or not, but that's the claim. If true then Ibrahimovich is effectively free and it's demonstration of how thinking big and going big can be cheaper than being a skinflint, plus of course you get an energised fan base and one investment feeds on another until the process becomes self funding. I wonder how much of Pogba's fee will be covered in the same way?

Meanwhile, Sanogo, Welbeck, Giroud and Theo shirts sales. Anyone know how they are doing?

I dont think we sell that many shirts if you combined our entire squad :lol:

[Kano]

Here's a rumour: Begiristain (too easy) Pep's old Barca buddy over at City, doesn't want to go above the £40m he values John Stones at, while Everton want £50m. Can't be true though because it doesn't involve Arsenal or our manager. What confuses me is that it exists online via some shitty journalist. Usually that would make it true. Weird. We're usually the only ones that place a value on a player. Every other club doesn't know how to negotiate and instead launches a barrage of unmarked cash at its target cuz dats how fings werk. And yet yesterday this was 207% guaranteed to happen. Who know eh?

[Niall_Quinn]

Are we now pretending Arsenal is just like any other club when it comes to transfers, just because the chavs have paused to consider a fee? The fact they are even entertaining a 40 mill bid for a player as limited as Stones shows the fundamental difference. Doesn't tell us if it's a good or bad difference, but it does dispel the fanciful notion that other clubs are somehow like Arsenal and Wenger when it comes to parting with cash. Plainly that's not true.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

There's no way they banked 76 mill in shirt sales profit in a week.

[Kano]

There's no way they banked 76 mill in shirt sales profit in a week.

Of course not. 90% of any shirt sold goes to the manufacturer and Utd probably don't even get that 10% because of the £75m they got up front from Adidas. They're probably on a deal where they recieve money after a certain amount have been sold.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Yeah I'm 99% certain that 76 million Ibrahamovic shirt sales figure is pure BS, probably made up by some Man Utd fan to try and justify the extortionate deal they gave Zlatan. Would like to see the sourcing for that ..... I bet it's some random guy on a Manc forum.


I mean assuming ~£60 a shirt, you need to sell roughly 1.25 million of them. I'm not sure if they've sold that many new official shirts period, let alone ones with Zlatan's name on the back. Sure Man Utd do have a lot of fans around the globe (like us) but out of the fraction that buy apparel, only an even smaller fraction buy official merchandise (i.e. the ones in prosperous nations like England, USA, Japan etc who can afford £60 for a shirt). If you go to places like the Far East, Africa etc etc it's all mainly fake shirts which don't give any net financial benefit to the club or it's sponsors.


Other news, Athletico sign Gramerio (who's 29) for 28 million. Madness and shows you the price of strikers these days. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if we could get 40 million for Giroud if PSG suddenly wanted him.

[Niall_Quinn]

So they only took £7.6 mill in shirt sales for one player this week? And it could get worse if more sales are made next week. Could be a double whammy if fans start getting excited about Pogba too. With all their deals and the huge amounts they are raking in across the board, these huge fees aren't a problem for them. But they didn't get there via a sugardaddy, they are heavily in debt and leveraged up to the eyeballs. Which makes no difference whatsoever in the crazy world of football. This sustainability bullshit we've conveniently (for some) subjected ourselves to is an entirely unnecessary handicap that hits the success of the club on so many levels. We may think we are doing well commercially, but we could be doing a lot better if we speculated to accumulate, if we created a bit of a buzz around the place.

Arsenal actually does sell quite a lot of shirts, apparently. 2 million compared to Utd's 3 million. That's 2 million suckers right there. Highest prices, fuck all back from the club and they are buying 2 million shirts. Stan and the gang must literally be crying with laughter. Maybe if Stan turns up on opening day and goes around pissing in the fans' faces we could see those sales go higher.

[Niall_Quinn]

Apparently Wenger is preparing another lowball bid for Lacazette. That should waste another week at least. We're getting close, just a few more days until this damned transfer window slams shut and the wallet is safe for another year. £35mill this time, supposedly. And yes, it's a media source so it's smoke, but we know there's fire too after Lyon made their announcement last week. If we were serious about getting this guy, and considering Troy Deeney is a £30mill+ striker (okay so that's a joke but this is where the market is now), we should stick in a £40mill bid and force the issue. Stop fucking around.

[Munchies]

Ben Yedder moving to Sevilla

FFS. Wanted him.

[Munchies]

Apparently Wenger is preparing another lowball bid for Lacazette. That should waste another week at least. We're getting close, just a few more days until this damned transfer window slams shut and the wallet is safe for another year. £35mill this time, supposedly. And yes, it's a media source so it's smoke, but we know there's fire too after Lyon made their announcement last week. If we were serious about getting this guy, and considering Troy Deeney is a £30mill+ striker (okay so that's a joke but this is where the market is now), we should stick in a £40mill bid and force the issue. Stop fucking around.

The Telegraph say he wants to join us too

FFS, if we want him ( we do ), get it done

[Özim]

Other news, Athletico sign Gramerio (who's 29) for 28 million. Madness and shows you the price of strikers these days. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if we could get 40 million for Giroud if PSG suddenly wanted him.

Gameiro is much better than Giroud, he's worth 28 million that's not a lot in todays market.

[Özim]

Lacazette is looking like the only option left for us, if we mess that up our only options will be nobodies who can't score goals like we've had for the last 4-5 years.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The spending has been a little modest on the whole considering the money available in the prem and the displays of the top clubs lasts season.

We thought Guardiola might go nuts but its not really happened, so it will be interesting to see how this season goes.

We are left hoping, one or two surprise us, ie, Walcott, Chamberlain, Campbell, Iwobi so for our sake I sincerely hope it happens.

[alexander]

I come on here every few days to see if we have signed anyone, and still nothing.

We are really running out of options now. Whatever Wenger says about nothing happening until the end of the window (which is utter shit, because there are transfers going on all over) we need something now, before the season starts.

Without it becoming a `wengers a twat` thing, do we actually believe we will get anyone, I mean are they really, really trying? I would say at the very very least we need a striker and a central defender. I am very nervous of starting a season without these two. Personally I feel its already too late for them to form a decent understanding by the start of the season.

My head is saying we are not getting anyone, and its going to be an `internal solutions` thing, Theo playing up top at the start of the season. as for CB, well I dont know...

[Power n Glory]

The spending has been a little modest on the whole considering the money available in the prem and the displays of the top clubs lasts season.

We thought Guardiola might go nuts but its not really happened, so it will be interesting to see how this season goes.

We are left hoping, one or two surprise us, ie, Walcott, Chamberlain, Campbell, Iwobi so for our sake I sincerely hope it happens.



That's where I'm at. If we don't sign anyone, I'm hoping the players you mention step up or we see something different to get excited about.

[bignev]

Great. He's right. Now what?

Stop moaning so much and lets have some sensible debate? :blah::blah::blah:

[Power n Glory]

Stop moaning so much and lets have some sensible debate? :blah::blah::blah:

:doh: So that's your contribution for today? You've come back on GW to tell others to stop moaning? Great stuff, you've been missed.

[bignev]

Yeah I'm 99% certain that 76 million Ibrahamovic shirt sales figure is pure BS, probably made up by some Man Utd fan to try and justify the extortionate deal they gave Zlatan. Would like to see the sourcing for that ..... I bet it's some random guy on a Manc forum.


I mean assuming ~£60 a shirt, you need to sell roughly 1.25 million of them. I'm not sure if they've sold that many new official shirts period, let alone ones with Zlatan's name on the back. Sure Man Utd do have a lot of fans around the globe (like us) but out of the fraction that buy apparel, only an even smaller fraction buy official merchandise (i.e. the ones in prosperous nations like England, USA, Japan etc who can afford £60 for a shirt). If you go to places like the Far East, Africa etc etc it's all mainly fake shirts which don't give any net financial benefit to the club or it's sponsors.


This story proves so much about "journalism" and how the public perceive the story's the print. Essentially they can make up anything and people will believe. Very few people ever question the facts.

This is especially true for us Arsenal fans because we're all so disillusioned anyway that we'll believe anything they print about Wenger and Arsenal. Which then feeds into the negativity and makes us more desperate for stories so we keep clicking/reading them etc

It's sickening.

[bignev]

:goodpost: Absolutely spot on, a few years back we could have signed Suarez or Higuain for a fraction of what they cost now, sadly we were too dum and too greedy to do so.



Really interested to know if you actually believe this?

Wenger get's a lot of stick for missing out on Suarez/Higuain but I actually don't think you can blame him or the club.

We had an offer accepted for Higuain and then we thought Suarez was available. We met his release clause (supposedly it was disrespectful but that's rubbish) and the bid was rejected. Liverpool called our bluff that we wouldn't push it and take them through legal proceedings. As someone has already mentioned Suarez wasn't that bothered about coming to us so he didn't push it either. Had he really wanted to come to us, I think the deal would have been done. The real issue is that we lost out on Higuain in the meantime as Napoli took their chance while we were concentrating on Suarez.

[bignev]

Gameiro is much better than Giroud, he's worth 28 million that's not a lot in todays market.

Is he? His scoring record is pretty similar to Giroud's. About 1 goal every 3 games. Not really an upgrade in my eyes.

[bignev]

:doh: So that's your contribution for today? You've come back on GW to tell others to stop moaning? Great stuff, you've been missed.

You looks like an idiot now. See above :) You could also try contributing yourself. And by contributing I mean not crying like a 9 year old girl with a skinned knee.

[Niall_Quinn]

Really interested to know if you actually believe this?

Wenger get's a lot of stick for missing out on Suarez/Higuain but I actually don't think you can blame him or the club.

We had an offer accepted for Higuain and then we thought Suarez was available. We met his release clause (supposedly it was disrespectful but that's rubbish) and the bid was rejected. Liverpool called our bluff that we wouldn't push it and take them through legal proceedings. As someone has already mentioned Suarez wasn't that bothered about coming to us so he didn't push it either. Had he really wanted to come to us, I think the deal would have been done. The real issue is that we lost out on Higuain in the meantime as Napoli took their chance while we were concentrating on Suarez.

We added £1 to the buyout clause. One pound. If we were determined to open up meaningful meaningful discussions with a club that didn't want to sell then that was the absolute worst way to kick things off. It's a smart arse move and all it served to do was reinforce the idea the club is cheap. If we were serious - and we certainly needed to be very serious indeed given the shite we've had playing up top for us these past few seasons - we'd have slapped £50mill on the table and said we wanted the player. Instead we did the £1 thing and it all descended to recrimination and farce. In a nutshell, we fucked it up. That's because we're one of the least competent clubs in the transfer window and if you don't believe that's true then take a look at Wenger's, "almost signed him", list - another comedy item that much amuses opposition fans. If we really did miss out on all those players then we must be seriously fucking incompetent, don't you think?

The stupid one quid fiasco aside, we should have had Higuain on the go too. Keep both channels open until you get a result from one of them. Where's the rule that says you have to shut down one deal as soon as you open another? More incompetence.

And here we are, still looking for that striker. It beggars belief. How anyone can defend these bastards is a complete mystery.

[bignev]

what is Aubameyang at a younger age and proven at in a better league going to go for?

You're right about this.

However I would like us to put in a big bid for him and test Dortmund's resolve. If we bid 50 or 60m then would they be able to turn that down? It's unlikely to work out but let's at least try.

The Mkhitaryan thing annoyed me. It seems like from media reports were were interested, Dortmund told us he wasn't for sale and we just said "thanks, bye". Utd enquire, again they're told he's not for sale and their response is "What about if we offer 26m?" They sign him. Now i'm pretty sure we would have paid that to get him if we had to the chance but we didn't test their resolve. We're too nice in the transfer market for our own good.

I'm quite surprised we didn't go for Jansson. He seemed like a Wenger signing. Young, decent and let's face it cheap. Spurs have signed him.

In fact as much as it pains me to say, Spurs are doing what we should be doing if we're not willing to spend big money. They're signing young, upcoming players for relatively cheap prices. They've signed Wanyama for 12m! We paid three times that for Xaka. In fact they got Jansson and Wanyama for less combined than Xaka.

[bignev]

We added £1 to the buyout clause. One pound. If we were determined to open up meaningful meaningful discussions with a club that didn't want to sell then that was the absolute worst way to kick things off. It's a smart arse move and all it served to do was reinforce the idea the club is cheap. If we were serious - and we certainly needed to be very serious indeed given the shite we've had playing up top for us these past few seasons - we'd have slapped £50mill on the table and said we wanted the player. Instead we did the £1 thing and it all descended to recrimination and farce. In a nutshell, we fucked it up. That's because we're one of the least competent clubs in the transfer window and if you don't believe that's true then take a look at Wenger's, "almost signed him", list - another comedy item that much amuses opposition fans. If we really did miss out on all those players then we must be seriously fucking incompetent, don't you think?

The stupid one quid fiasco aside, we should have had Higuain on the go too. Keep both channels open until you get a result from one of them. Where's the rule that says you have to shut down one deal as soon as you open another? More incompetence.

And here we are, still looking for that striker. It beggars belief. How anyone can defend these bastards is a complete mystery.

I'm pretty sure no club in the history of football has willingly paid £10m over a player's release clause for no reason other than to show we're not cheap. His release clause was anything over £40m and we met that.

The problem is we were naive to believe he really wanted to join us. I suspect his agent misled us because Suarez wanted out of Liverpool and we fell for it.

The Wenger "almost" signed him list is another misnomer I think. I suspect most top managers have one of those lists. The difference is Wenger talks about it when he shouldn't. He's specifically asked about it now which makes it worse. It's all "news" and the fans are so desperate for it we'll read this crap.

I'm not "defending" Wenger or the board, they have a lot to answer for. However i'm also not one of the fans who believe he's a twat or a cunt or whatever you want to call him, or that he's a crap manager that's lost the plot. Neither of those things are true.

What is true is that the transfer market has evolved and Wenger hasn't. That doesn't automatically make him the worst person in existence. It does mean he should be (carefully) replaced if we want to move forward as a club. That leads us on to our second problem. The board.

The board won't sack Wenger because from their point of view he pulls a rabbit out the hat every season. We always finish top four and we always make a profit. That's all they care about. As fans we care about winning and little else.

[Power n Glory]

You looks like an idiot now. See above :) You could also try contributing yourself. And by contributing I mean not crying like a 9 year old girl with a skinned knee.

:good: You're trying at least.

As said to Letters the other day, if you want a sensible debate, push the debate elsewhere instead of constantly moaning about what others are saying.

I post on a regular and talk to most people on here about whatever.

:lol: I contribute a lot. You've been away for too long.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'm pretty sure no club in the history of football has willingly paid £10m over a player's release clause for no reason other than to show we're not cheap. His release clause is anything over £40m and we met that.

The problem is we were naive to believe he really wanted to join us. I suspect his agent misled us because Suarez wanted out of Liverpool and we fell for it.

The Wenger "almost" signed him list is another misnomer I think. I suspect most top managers have one of those lists. The difference is Wenger talks about it when he shouldn't. He's specifically asked about it now which makes it worse. It's all "news" and the fans are so desperate for it we'll read this crap.

The release clause was meaningless, as we found out. Suarez DID want to join us, he went on strike t try to force the move. It was Liverpool that said they wouldn't sell under any circumstances. When they agreed that release clause it would have seemed a high figure, but then when he became virtually priceless in terms of his importance on the pitch (I think we can now see he carried the likes of Sturridge and certainly the ordinary Sterling) £40mill must have seemed small consolation. Small enough for Liverpool to say sod the buyout clause, we're keeping him and we don't care what the agreement says. So in that context, our smart arse £1 bid just served to get the heels dug in deeper. Would £50mill have tested their resolve? Who knows? But one quid certainly moved their resolve in the wrong way. Deal over. We fucked it.

In a way I'm glad the deal for Suarez never went through because he'd have been gone like shit off a shovel had Barca come knocking, which was highly likely. Then again, under Wenger's tutelage for a season you never know, maybe he wouldn't have scored a goal, maybe he'd have been injured all season. The point is, the way we do things in the transfer market is obnoxious. Miserable cheapskates always turning up with lowball offers and then dithering around instead of acting decisively to get the players we need. There have been strange exceptions, like the last minute Ozil deal and the trend bucking signing of Alexis. But in the main you get the impression of a bunch of hapless, out of touch economy shoppers browsing and tutting while everyone else fills their trolley. One season, two seasons, maybe three. Okay, maybe you can call it bad luck, strange circumstances. But here we are on the verge of season five since RvC pissed off. And fast approaching the kick-off. Yet again we aren't prepared, we aren't properly stocked and we are talking about where we are short rather than approaching the season with confidence.

It's negligence, incompetence and it's caused because the priorities of this club lie somewhere other than the football pitch.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Gameiro is much better than Giroud, he's worth 28 million that's not a lot in todays market.

He really isn't. :lol:

A journeyman striker who's only kind of come good recently right in the tail of his career, who's league goal record isn't any better than Giroud's and who couldn't even get ahead of Giroud and Gignac in the French squad for the Euros.

[Power n Glory]

You're right about this.

However I would like us to put in a big bid for him and test Dortmund's resolve. If we bid 50 or 60m then would they be able to turn that down? It's unlikely to work out but let's at least try.

The Mkhitaryan thing annoyed me. It seems like from media reports were were interested, Dortmund told us he wasn't for sale and we just said "thanks, bye". Utd enquire, again they're told he's not for sale and their response is "What about if we offer 26m?" They sign him. Now i'm pretty sure we would have paid that to get him if we had to the chance but we didn't test their resolve. We're too nice in the transfer market for our own good.

I'm quite surprised we didn't go for Jansson. He seemed like a Wenger signing. Young, decent and let's face it cheap. Spurs have signed him.

In fact as much as it pains me to say, Spurs are doing what we should be doing if we're not willing to spend big money. They're signing young, upcoming players for relatively cheap prices. They've signed Wanyama for 12m! We paid three times that for Xaka. In fact they got Jansson and Wanyama for less combined than Xaka.

This is where we are on the same page and we go into 'moaning' territory. Janssen looks like a decent player and can find the back of the net. Intetelligent finishing. No idea why we didn't move for him. Then we have that fee for Xhaka. Is he that special that special? It just seems like we could have bought a player for a fraction of that price and focused on buying a striker after.

[Kano]

You're right about this.

However I would like us to put in a big bid for him and test Dortmund's resolve. If we bid 50 or 60m then would they be able to turn that down? It's unlikely to work out but let's at least try.

The Mkhitaryan thing annoyed me. It seems like from media reports were were interested, Dortmund told us he wasn't for sale and we just said "thanks, bye". Utd enquire, again they're told he's not for sale and their response is "What about if we offer 26m?" They sign him. Now i'm pretty sure we would have paid that to get him if we had to the chance but we didn't test their resolve. We're too nice in the transfer market for our own good.

I'm quite surprised we didn't go for Jansson. He seemed like a Wenger signing. Young, decent and let's face it cheap. Spurs have signed him.

In fact as much as it pains me to say, Spurs are doing what we should be doing if we're not willing to spend big money. They're signing young, upcoming players for relatively cheap prices. They've signed Wanyama for 12m! We paid three times that for Xaka. In fact they got Jansson and Wanyama for less combined than Xaka.
I couldn't see Aubameyang going for anything less than £80m in this current market. Just into his peak years, his profile at his highest, a new contract signed last year and of course UK clubs are ripe for the money. I could be completely wrong of course about the value but comparing him to Higuain, or Lukaku, Morata, Lacazette - his value would surely have to be far higher.

I don't know what happened, if anything at all, with Mkhitaryan. As with a lot of transfers, especially in the quiet early stages of the window, they throw up conflicting story after story pumped out online, without any hint of verification. I read that he was going to happen, he wanted to come etc and you were reading the opposite - which is the usual bullshit approach from 'writers' covering every eventuality so they can pat themselves on the back in the end.

Jansson I'm not to worried about. He had a great season last year but very unproven and still a lot of question marks over whether he can adapt or just how good he really is. No one over here has really seen him beyond YT clips so who knows? Could be £18m bargain in years to come or a huge waste of money for a team watching their pennies while they build a stadium. Wanyama was in his last year of his contract so I get that price and Xhaka's price makes sense in the current market, especially has he had a good chunk of his contract left at BM too.

Our secrecy, seemingly ponderous approach and Wenger's apparent reluctance to fix flaws in the squad for years is easily exploited and manipulated in the transfer window. So far we've shown interest in every striker in Europe if the bullshit written online is to be believed and too many fans lap it right up. To a degree I can understand why because of the growing frustration most of us share but people do need to get a grip of themselves in the main.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It's been done a million times now and I tend to be in a minority on it but our real cock up with Suarez was trusting the veracity of the dodgy clause rather than the pound in excess offer.

Xhaka's price is a surprise but ultimately of little concern to me. If anything it encourages the belief that he is actually quite good as I cannot imagine we were thrilled to pay that price for a player still something of a unknown quantity in the sphere of world or 'popular' football culture.

We are actually guilty of serious short mindedness (that which we purport to be highly resistant to) and lacking conviction in paying high prices for forwards of obvious quality.

Higuain, Suarez and he wasn't one of ours that got away but, Aguero was one of the most obvious signings of quality with a high price tag I can remember in my lifetime. Picking them out isn't always the work of a genius but there are very few of them left these days belonging to clubs where your money will really talk.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

It's been done a million times now and I tend to be in a minority on it but our real cock up with Suarez was trusting the veracity of the dodgy clause rather than the pound in excess offer.


Nah it was the other way around Blink.

John Henry has confirmed that the clause did exist in Suarez's contract however he gambled that we (and Suarez) wouldn't take it all the way to the courts to really force the issue. He was ultimately right of course.

We were right to try and activate the clause but the +£1 was pretty insulting and made Liverpool indignant which in turn caused them to circle the wagons and refuse to play ball, whereas a straight up £50 million as alluded by Rodgers may have done the trick.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Nah it was the other way around Blink.

John Henry has confirmed that the clause did exist in Suarez's contract however he gambled that we (and Suarez) wouldn't take it all the way to the courts to really force the issue. He was ultimately right of course.

We were right to try and activate the clause but the +£1 was pretty insulting and made Liverpool indignant which in turn caused them to circle the wagons and refuse to play ball, whereas a straight up £50 million as alluded by Rodgers may have done the trick.

Would have done the trick in terms of them agreeing to sell Suarez, but i still don't think we would have ended up signing him.

The buy out clause we met would have been enough on it's own if Suarez had pushed for the move, don't get me wrong i thought the plus one pound thing was a piss take and would have been enough to get anyone's backs up but it would have sufficed had Suarez wanted to come to us

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I initially thought as you did but I now say this on the basis of the fact that the FA chief whatshisface said that the makeup of the clause itself was questionable. I surmise from that that it was anything but a standard buyout clause covering the party of the player for all eventualities and on that basis a legal grey area. I guess it was a bespoke/rewritten clause but poorly done or at least poorly selected.

Never before has the meeting of a 'cause' been met with such brazen refute, resistance and stubbornness from a club as it was Liverpool and that was basically because the clause itself was not water tight. Liverpool played on that fact brilliantly whilst defecting with being insulted at our supposed derisory offer of a pound in excess.

Theoretically, I am a tight arse so I see no need why if a buyout is met, why the offerer should offer a penny more if he doesn't want to....just as I don't feel obliged to tip as a matter of course American style or go into Waitrose and pay more for their finest cut of lamb than is necessary.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

My understanding, and the same of the PFA guy, was that it was a good faith clause written on the basis that should a bid come in, we would sit down and negotiate nudge wink we'll let you go. Instead, we just told him and his agent to fuck off.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Which doesn't really sound like a buyout clause at all. Kind of thing you include in a letter of intent rather than a formal contract so is it any wonder Liverpool mugged us off. I'd have been pretty unhappy with my agent in his shoes.

[Power n Glory]

Why didn't we bid extra after the clause nonsense?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Think he'd made his peace with it by then and Liverpool had sufficiently muddied the waters.

[Maestro]

The internal solution


Giroud

Ozil Sanchez Carzola

Xhaka Ramsey

Monreal Boss Gabriel Bellerin

Cech


......assuming no signing of significance is made, I think that should be our starting line up. But as usual injuries, tactical and selection buffoonery mean it can't happen

[Munchies]

Arsène Wenger discussed transfers at his press conference at the Stubhub Center on Saturday.

on transfer approach…
I buy players that I feel can strengthen our team. Today you have to be very strong inside the club when you are responsible, not just to buy [for the sake of buying]. There’s always a wave of opinions. I must say people are better informed today - they know all the players. They tell you always that you should buy but when you ask them who to buy, they become much shorter. If you look at the market in Europe, there’s a lot of money available but not many players who really strengthen the teams. If you look at the teams that spend the most money in Europe, they’re not necessarily the teams that won the championships. The global investment of the clubs around us didn’t stop Leicester winning the championship.

on transfers…
We are still on the market for players. [Be it] at the front or at the back - we are on the market. Unfortunately we are not alone.

on Mahrez and Lacazette…
The best way to conclude transfers is not to talk about them, which is very difficult in the press conference! We are on the market but I don’t want to talk specifically about any player because that makes it more difficult for me - and it’s difficult enough.

on if he expects to sign defender before the season starts…
Yes I do.


http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20160730/wenger-discusses-the-transfer-market#W8d0j2jKTPvc9bM7.99

:coffee:

[Munchies]

The Mirror are linking us with Johnny Evans now :lol:

Could actually see it happening!

[Özim]

He really isn't. :lol:

A journeyman striker who's only kind of come good recently right in the tail of his career, who's league goal record isn't any better than Giroud's and who couldn't even get ahead of Giroud and Gignac in the French squad for the Euros.

Completely off the mark,much better finisher than Giroud and just franly Deschamps is clueless so it's no surprise he didn't pick him, had he they might have won the Euros, the fact he picked Giroud and Gignac tells you all you need to know.

[Niall_Quinn]

Which doesn't really sound like a buyout clause at all. Kind of thing you include in a letter of intent rather than a formal contract so is it any wonder Liverpool mugged us off. I'd have been pretty unhappy with my agent in his shoes.

It doesn't matter if the clause was valid or not, the real issue was our £1 nonsense. It showed we were opportunity shopping and bargain hunting rather than going full guns for the player we needed and still need. Forget the clause, bang £50mill on the table, we're serious! Instead, here is our coupon, can we have your player please? No? Merd! And extra 10 or even 20 mill could have been recouped in no time, just by using the extra firepower to advance further in the CL, for example. Our cheapskate, value for money bullshit ends up costing us in the end. We're stupid arse savers in an inflation ridden market - now how dumb is that?

[Özim]

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/20160730/wenger-discusses-the-transfer-market#W8d0j2jKTPvc9bM7.99

:coffee:

Here we go again the BS excuses, the biggest embarassment in football today.

[Özim]

Really interested to know if you actually believe this?

Wenger get's a lot of stick for missing out on Suarez/Higuain but I actually don't think you can blame him or the club.

We had an offer accepted for Higuain and then we thought Suarez was available. We met his release clause (supposedly it was disrespectful but that's rubbish) and the bid was rejected. Liverpool called our bluff that we wouldn't push it and take them through legal proceedings. As someone has already mentioned Suarez wasn't that bothered about coming to us so he didn't push it either. Had he really wanted to come to us, I think the deal would have been done. The real issue is that we lost out on Higuain in the meantime as Napoli took their chance while we were concentrating on Suarez.

Yes I do, Wenger takes plenty of blame, he controls most things at the club and he is as has been proven over the years not willing to pay the market rate.

You don't think bidding £1 over 40 million was disrespectful and didn't p*ss Liverpool off, in the end it did and they refused to sell and good on them to be honest, if you're going to be petty and cheap you deserve all you get, I've never seen any other club make such a nonsense bid, it's just us that embarrass ourselves with the low ball and ridiculous offers.

If we did things properly in the transfer market we wouldn't have so many issues at the club.

[Letters]

Here we go again the BS excuses, the biggest embarassment in football today.

:lol: It's just completely Pavlovian with you, isn't it? Literally knee-jerk.

[Letters]

You hardly ever chime in for any other debate unless NQ and Zim have said something about Wenger. You're not helping.

That is fair comment. There is a responsibility on all of us if we want to make this place better and yes, new posters would help although it's telling that on occasions when new people join they don't hang around long.

[Letters]

So they only took £7.6 mill in shirt sales for one player this week? And it could get worse if more sales are made next week. Could be a double whammy if fans start getting excited about Pogba too. With all their deals and the huge amounts they are raking in across the board, these huge fees aren't a problem for them. But they didn't get there via a sugardaddy, they are heavily in debt and leveraged up to the eyeballs. Which makes no difference whatsoever in the crazy world of football. This sustainability bullshit we've conveniently (for some) subjected ourselves to is an entirely unnecessary handicap that hits the success of the club on so many levels. We may think we are doing well commercially, but we could be doing a lot better if we speculated to accumulate, if we created a bit of a buzz around the place.

Arsenal actually does sell quite a lot of shirts, apparently. 2 million compared to Utd's 3 million. That's 2 million suckers right there. Highest prices, fuck all back from the club and they are buying 2 million shirts. Stan and the gang must literally be crying with laughter. Maybe if Stan turns up on opening day and goes around pissing in the fans' faces we could see those sales go higher.

Elsewhere you've said that the whole debt bubble will burst at some point, but here you're criticising us for having a sustainable model?
We are too frugal, we could spent more without putting ourselves in financial jeopardy, but in my view having a sustainable business model is absolutely the right thing to do, surely this whole spiral of debt and transfer fees can't last forever.

[Letters]

In a way I'm glad the deal for Suarez never went through because he'd have been gone like shit off a shovel had Barca come knocking, which was highly likely. Then again, under Wenger's tutelage for a season you never know, maybe he wouldn't have scored a goal, maybe he'd have been injured all season.
So you want us to sign players, but you think signing players will make no difference while Wenger is manager?
:blink:

[Letters]

Gameiro is much better than Giroud, he's worth 28 million that's not a lot in todays market.
And yet his goal scoring record is worse by pretty much every measure.
15,8,16 in the last 3 league seasons for Gameiro vs 16,14,16 for Giroud.
Giroud had played more games in that period but Giroud's goals/games ratio is still better, 0.45 vs 0.42 for Gameiro.
So 'much better'? How do you work that out?

[Power n Glory]

The internal solution


Giroud

Ozil Sanchez Carzola

Xhaka Ramsey

Monreal Boss Gabriel Bellerin

Cech


......assuming no signing of significance is made, I think that should be our starting line up. But as usual injuries, tactical and selection buffoonery mean it can't happen

I'd go with that. But maybe Ox, Theo or Iwobi on the wing instead of Cazorla. We need a bit of pace.

[Letters]

I'd go with that. But maybe Ox, Theo or Iwobi on the wing instead of Cazorla. We need a bit of pace.

This is one thing that does frustrate me about the way we play, in theory we've got loads of pace in the team but we're so ineffectual at breaking with pace. We move the ball forward at glacial speed and then wonder why we're struggling to break down the 10 men who have now had time to get behind the ball.

[Munchies]

Robbie from AFTV said he spoke to Gazidis at the kit launch and Gazidis promised that hard work is being done behind the scenes, said Kroenke wants to win too, and that he's angry with the British press for misreporting how we're going after players.

Video : https://twitter.com/ArsenalFanTV/status/759675771552145408

Believe it when we see it :coffee:

[alexander]

Elsewhere you've said that the whole debt bubble will burst at some point, but here you're criticising us for having a sustainable model?
We are too frugal, we could spent more without putting ourselves in financial jeopardy, but in my view having a sustainable business model is absolutely the right thing to do, surely this whole spiral of debt and transfer fees can't last forever.

I think I heard it said by Arseblog, or his mate on the podcast the other week that we have been conditioned to Wengers thinking when it comes to money, like we have some sort of vested interest in the money side of things. I think this is true for me. Im shocked at the money for transfers now. I really need to get into the thinking of `fcuk it, not my money, lets go big!`, and it really isnt my money. I dont contribute to arsenal at all, dont go to the games, dont by shirts or merch, wont pay for BT/Sky etc. If palace and West Ham are bidding £30+ million for players, we really need to be at the very least matching them.
We have masses of money, play in London, CL football, we really should be able to buy nearly anyone, although there are those top 10-15 players in the world that we couldnt get, but everyone else we could easily throw masses of cash at the club and player to get them here.

[Niall_Quinn]

That is fair comment. There is a responsibility on all of us if we want to make this place better and yes, new posters would help although it's telling that on occasions when new people join they don't hang around long.

This is a place for a few old diehards to sound off and it's a clique. Flyby fans aren't going to stick around one at a time. If you want to get more people in then you need to get a lot in one hit and a few will stick. Is that what you want to do? If you are thinking there's a cadre of pro-Wenger supporters out there who could even up the score here then maybe there is, for a few more weeks. After that though, once yer man has evaded another transfer window and set his monotonous bullshit in motion for another season (because he's the real bore btw, not the fans who complain about him or the fans that have devoted themselves to him) it's going to get toxic. If we're sitting here with new signings onboard and looking forward to the season then of course you have a very different atmosphere. But that's not the case. What we are doing is trying to find ways to discuss the same old stuff that has been happening at the club for half a decade or longer. That's a tough sell. I think if most of the current posters were to join today, they wouldn't stick around either. Not because it's GW but because there's nothing left to talk about with this club. I bet all forums are seeing a drop off and suffering from the repetitiveness of it all.

[Niall_Quinn]

Elsewhere you've said that the whole debt bubble will burst at some point, but here you're criticising us for having a sustainable model?
We are too frugal, we could spent more without putting ourselves in financial jeopardy, but in my view having a sustainable business model is absolutely the right thing to do, surely this whole spiral of debt and transfer fees can't last forever.

What do you think will happen to all of football if/ when that bubble bursts? It will all go down. You think our sponsors are going to say, wait, Arsenal has this sustainable model so let's keep pouring inflated sums into the club? It's the moneygoround that has attracted all the sharks, once that's gone then they'll be gone and all clubs will suffer the consequences. Our stupid sustainability bullshit will have counted for zero. All it will have done is hold us back. There are so many poor saps at this club, boasting about our balance sheet rather than our trophy cabinet.

[Niall_Quinn]

So you want us to sign players, but you think signing players will make no difference while Wenger is manager?
:blink:

No. I'm saying Wenger's such a shit manager that maybe Suarez would have suffered a total loss of form under him or sustained a major injury. That way his rapid departure to Barca might not have been inevitable. But of course you have to refer to the whole paragraph to understand the context of what was a tongue in cheek sub comment. When you pull just the one sentence out so you can change the context and score Internet points then the actual point is lost.

[Niall_Quinn]

And yet his goal scoring record is worse by pretty much every measure.
15,8,16 in the last 3 league seasons for Gameiro vs 16,14,16 for Giroud.
Giroud had played more games in that period but Giroud's goals/games ratio is still better, 0.45 vs 0.42 for Gameiro.
So 'much better'? How do you work that out?

Didn't Giroud go 18 games without scoring a goal, or something like that? That's what kills you, the inconsistency. Better to have a striker that scores less but scores every other week than a part-timer like Giroud who score in one clump and then fucks off for the rest of the season.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is one thing that does frustrate me about the way we play, in theory we've got loads of pace in the team but we're so ineffectual at breaking with pace. We move the ball forward at glacial speed and then wonder why we're struggling to break down the 10 men who have now had time to get behind the ball.

We have to play like that because the chavs and gypos have too much money.

[Niall_Quinn]

I'd go with that. But maybe Ox, Theo or Iwobi on the wing instead of Cazorla. We need a bit of pace.

He'll put Cazorla in the middle just in front of Xhaka and stick Ramsey on the wing. You know he will.

[Kano]

I think I heard it said by Arseblog, or his mate on the podcast the other week that we have been conditioned to Wengers thinking when it comes to money, like we have some sort of vested interest in the money side of things. I think this is true for me. Im shocked at the money for transfers now. I really need to get into the thinking of `fcuk it, not my money, lets go big!`, and it really isnt my money. I dont contribute to arsenal at all, dont go to the games, dont by shirts or merch, wont pay for BT/Sky etc. If palace and West Ham are bidding £30+ million for players, we really need to be at the very least matching them.
We have masses of money, play in London, CL football, we really should be able to buy nearly anyone, although there are those top 10-15 players in the world that we couldnt get, but everyone else we could easily throw masses of cash at the club and player to get them here.
I heard that too but it is something I've read elsewhere. It's true to an extent but I think it applies to almost every football fan now. The analysis of football and the rise in wages and fees alongside societies increased use of the Internet means a never ending stream of facts and figures are thrown around for us to digest. Almost any position about any argument on any topic could be substantiated if you relied solely on data online. If it isn't the cost of of players, annual accounts are picked apart, every last detail about how many times a player scratched his balls in 90 minutes and his success ration of doing so. Stats, facts and figures have become the bedrock of how managers, coaches and scouts look at players too, while Sky dump a shit load of numbers about the game every day. It's the Billy Beane-ification of the sport that has taken over in almost every department, and I don't think it's any coincidence that during this period the quality of football on domestic and international stages has gone to shit. Too much analysis stifles anything and that's what we have here I think.

[Niall_Quinn]

Robbie from AFTV said he spoke to Gazidis at the kit launch and Gazidis promised that hard work is being done behind the scenes, said Kroenke wants to win too, and that he's angry with the British press for misreporting how we're going after players.

Video : https://twitter.com/ArsenalFanTV/status/759675771552145408

Believe it when we see it :coffee:

Good. The more fans that react to the media bullshit the better. I doubt in reality that Stan has noticed anything beyond the bank statement but if he is keeping an eye out then let's give him some real vitriol to drink. That's the only way to get through to a guy like that. Begging him won't work, being reasonable won't work. Metaphorically kicking him in the cunt is what's required, week after week, until he does what all bosses do and lays the blame on somebody else. In this case Wenger. Job done.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

It doesn't matter if the clause was valid or not, the real issue was our £1 nonsense. It showed we were opportunity shopping and bargain hunting rather than going full guns for the player we needed and still need. Forget the clause, bang £50mill on the table, we're serious! Instead, here is our coupon, can we have your player please? No? Merd! And extra 10 or even 20 mill could have been recouped in no time, just by using the extra firepower to advance further in the CL, for example. Our cheapskate, value for money bullshit ends up costing us in the end. We're stupid arse savers in an inflation ridden market - now how dumb is that?
The veracity of the clause was wholly important. Had it been a standard clause we wouldn't even be having this conversation as Liverpool would have had no leg to stand on and signing him a formality and fuhk giving them a penny more. Yes we are cheap and yes it has cost us at times, but get your facts in order and your propensity for cheapness won't make you look fools in the public eye.

In fairness, given that it wasn't a proper clause, we should have just bid enough to get him outright first time or at least dropped the pound malarkey. But again, we should have got our shit 'facts' straight.

He'd have pissed off soon enough for 70/80 mill.....but I won't complain about a revolving door of world class strikers because the money recouped would have enabled that.

I'd go with that. But maybe Ox, Theo or Iwobi on the wing instead of Cazorla. We need a bit of pace.

I don't think we can play Ozil wide either...... and I'd start with Theo up front, particularly with Xhaka and Ozil in the team. Use the early and precise ball to our full advantage. Think Giroud has extra time off anyway so won't start the season.

[bignev]

No. I'm saying Wenger's such a shit manager that maybe Suarez would have suffered a total loss of form under him or sustained a major injury.

This is so ridiculous. Wenger isn't a shit manager. How could he be? We never spend any money and yet every year we're there abouts. If he was that bad this wouldn't be the case.

Of course there are better managers out there and we could definitely be doing a lot more to improve our team. We agree on that.

I don't buy into Wenger being the worst manager of all time just because he doesn't spend money where we want him to.

I'm fairly sure we would have won the league if we had bought Suarez. I'm sure if you could see objectively for 5 seconds you would agree.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The most sensible opinion to have is that Wenger is a manager who is too stubborn to learn from his mistakes

A shit manager would have been sacked, because the money is coming in there is little incentive to push him to be more proactive, delegate responsibility and be willing to learn from his mistakes.

The contempt people have for him is borne out of knowing the club should be competitive, but seems to fall in much the same way at much the same time during the season, and can see the link between this and a reactive submissive attitude in the transfer market.

That and the perceived lack of ruthlessness towards under performing players, whilst all the while it's costing more and more to see the same thing.

He's not shit, but he's a bane towards fans who quite understandably are sick of more of the same.

[Letters]

I think I heard it said by Arseblog, or his mate on the podcast the other week that we have been conditioned to Wengers thinking when it comes to money, like we have some sort of vested interest in the money side of things. I think this is true for me. Im shocked at the money for transfers now. I really need to get into the thinking of `fcuk it, not my money, lets go big!`, and it really isnt my money. I dont contribute to arsenal at all, dont go to the games, dont by shirts or merch, wont pay for BT/Sky etc. If palace and West Ham are bidding £30+ million for players, we really need to be at the very least matching them.
We have masses of money, play in London, CL football, we really should be able to buy nearly anyone, although there are those top 10-15 players in the world that we couldnt get, but everyone else we could easily throw masses of cash at the club and player to get them here.

I do look at the fees being splashed around and have some sympathy with the view that it's silly money and we shouldn't play. But unfortunately we have to, Leicester showed you can achieve success without spending bit but it was the perfect storm for them last year with us doing what we do and all the other big boys having a bad season at once. They won't repeat it. What they did was very much the exception rather than the rule, if we're going to compete we have to spend big.
BUT, that doesn't mean that having a sustainable model is a bad idea. Like it or not football is a business and any business has to be financially sustainable in order to prosper long term.

[Letters]

No. I'm saying Wenger's such a shit manager that maybe Suarez would have suffered a total loss of form under him or sustained a major injury. That way his rapid departure to Barca might not have been inevitable. But of course you have to refer to the whole paragraph to understand the context of what was a tongue in cheek sub comment. When you pull just the one sentence out so you can change the context and score Internet points then the actual point is lost.

You have said previously that new signings won't make a difference. But you keep complaining we're not making new signings.
Dress it up how you like, you're contradicting yourself so you can score more IHateWengerMoreThanYou points.
Still think Zim is winning but you're catching up.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is so ridiculous. Wenger isn't a shit manager. How could he be? We never spend any money and yet every year we're there abouts. If he was that bad this wouldn't be the case.

Of course there are better managers out there and we could definitely be doing a lot more to improve our team. We agree on that.

I don't buy into Wenger being the worst manager of all time just because he doesn't spend money where we want him to.

I'm fairly sure we would have won the league if we had bought Suarez. I'm sure if you could see objectively for 5 seconds you would agree.

I didn't say he was the worst of all time, I said he was shite and I stick by that. All those resources and look at his record. Appalling. And finishing in the top 4 is NOT a trophy, no matter how much he spins it. Why should I be objective about this arsehole when he's stunk the place out for a decade and refuses to do a damn thing about it? There comes a time when the concern becomes a hint becomes a suggestion becomes a plea becomes a demand becomes an OH FUCK OFF YOU OLD GIT! And that's where I am now and that's where I'm staying. It's not like he's been fucking up for a few games or even a few seasons. 10 seasons is enough now.

[Niall_Quinn]

The most sensible opinion to have is that Wenger is a manager who is too stubborn to learn from his mistakes

A shit manager would have been sacked, because the money is coming in there is little incentive to push him to be more proactive, delegate responsibility and be willing to learn from his mistakes.

The contempt people have for him is borne out of knowing the club should be competitive, but seems to fall in much the same way at much the same time during the season, and can see the link between this and a reactive submissive attitude in the transfer market.

That and the perceived lack of ruthlessness towards under performing players, whilst all the while it's costing more and more to see the same thing.

He's not shit, but he's a bane towards fans who quite understandably are sick of more of the same.

Oh but wait a second. I have always said he's a world class accountant and he's rather a good thief and liar too. So I'm not saying he's shit at everything. You are right. When it comes to money and raking it in, he's the best manager in the business.

[Niall_Quinn]

You have said previously that new signings won't make a difference. But you keep complaining we're not making new signings.
Dress it up how you like, you're contradicting yourself so you can score more IHateWengerMoreThanYou points.
Still think Zim is winning but you're catching up.

You're making shit up as usual. I said we need to sign world class players to compensate for the failings of our manager. If we had enough players with the talent and character then maybe collectively they could beat the handicap that Wenger imposes on the club season after season. But Wenger is such a fraud even a team of Ozil's might not be enough. But that's not to say we shouldn't try. Of course the old git has that avenue covered too, with the chequebook secreted up his anus every transfer window and manure gushing out of his gob in 101 excuses. Keep apologising for him all day long. His record speaks more for him than you try to do.

[Niall_Quinn]

I do look at the fees being splashed around and have some sympathy with the view that it's silly money and we shouldn't play. But unfortunately we have to, Leicester showed you can achieve success without spending bit but it was the perfect storm for them last year with us doing what we do and all the other big boys having a bad season at once. They won't repeat it. What they did was very much the exception rather than the rule, if we're going to compete we have to spend big.
BUT, that doesn't mean that having a sustainable model is a bad idea. Like it or not football is a business and any business has to be financially sustainable in order to prosper long term.

And that's the whole point. Football is NOT a typical industry at all and is not bound by the rules of regular business - at least not at the top level. It has a captive market therefore zero competition, club revenues are rising in line with a decline in the product, more and more losers are being compensated massively for their failures - just look at Villa last season. This is NOT a normal industry at all and a fool like Wenger and the cronies in the boardroom who benefit mightily by trying to con the fan base with their nonsense talk are going to find it harder to pull the wool.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Oh but wait a second. I have always said he's a world class accountant and he's rather a good thief and liar too. So I'm not saying he's shit at everything. You are right. When it comes to money and raking it in, he's the best manager in the business.

It's also that not finishing lower than fourth whilst massively overstated as an achievement is a consistency that no other club has achieved, and would be beyond the level of a shit manager.

He's not a top manager because he doesn't have the ability to achieve big trophies, but difference between not being a top manager and being shit.

And the problem is there are people on here (and I don't mean you) who seem to think any manager would be better than Wenger.

[bignev]

I didn't say he was the worst of all time, I said he was shite and I stick by that. All those resources and look at his record. Appalling.

Appalling?:haha:

[Letters]

Didn't Giroud go 18 games without scoring a goal, or something like that? That's what kills you, the inconsistency. Better to have a striker that scores less but scores every other week than a part-timer like Giroud who score in one clump and then fucks off for the rest of the season.

I think we all know that Giroud isn't going to win us a league title. I'm just picking Zim up on yet more goalpost shifting. He's a big fan of stats when they backup something he says, he dismisses them when they show him to be wrong. This bloke isn't significantly better than Giroud, Giroud keeps him out of the French team and his scoring stats are better, Gameiro has only scored 20 league goals in a season once in his entire career, he's clearly not an upgrade on what we have.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's also that not finishing lower than fourth whilst massively overstated as an achievement is a consistency that no other club has achieved, and would be beyond the level of a shit manager.

He's not a top manager because he doesn't have the ability to achieve big trophies, but difference between not being a top manager and being shit.

And the problem is there are people on here (and I don't mean you) who seem to think any manager would be better than Wenger.

We're obviously talking about managers fit to manage at the top level of the game. Wenger's the biggest fraud around in the respect. When a West Ham or a Leicester qualify for Europe then you congratulate them. Their resources don't come close to matching the "big 5", the talent pool they can draw from is much smaller. So it has to be a great effort to grab a top 4 spot. And even then, realistically they are relying on one or more of the top clubs fucking up.

We call ourselves a top 5 club and we have all the resources available to back that claim up. But we behave like one of those smaller clubs, patting ourselves on the back because we qualify for a European competition we never manage to compete in. And this is a clue to the real value of that top 4 spot - more money. On the pitch it means nothing. We don't fight it out in the CL, we don't fight it out in the transfer market. Instead we qualify, turn up, take our hiding and bank the cash. And this is supposedly a top manager at the helm. The record proves he's a fraud. Ferguson, Maureen, Fat Rafa, Ranieri, Pellegrini even Di Matteo - these are all managers who can point to success. By comparison, where is Wenger? I don't know how he's got away with it for so long.

[Letters]

Appalling?:haha:

:lol: WUMs gotta WUM...

[Niall_Quinn]

Appalling?:haha:

Yes. Appalling. Unless you are genuinely going to point at the top 4 and call it a trophy. Or tell me that the FA Cup is a worthy return on the resources available to this man. Utd, City, Chelsea, Liverpool even, Leicester FFS - all of these clubs can point to a major trophy in their cabinet. What can Wenger point at, by comparison? Fuck all is the answer. Fuck all sounds pretty appalling to me, considering what he's had to work with and how much cash is shovelled into his own pocket. The huge problem here is Wenger and his cronies have brainwashed so many of the fans into thinking being an also-ran has merit. A decade in which to build a team that can compete for a title and avoid being crushed by the first decent opponent in the CL. What is his record? Good? Average? Poor?

It's appalling.

[Letters]

And that's the whole point. Football is NOT a typical industry at all and is not bound by the rules of regular business - at least not at the top level. It has a captive market therefore zero competition, club revenues are rising in line with a decline in the product, more and more losers are being compensated massively for their failures - just look at Villa last season. This is NOT a normal industry at all and a fool like Wenger and the cronies in the boardroom who benefit mightily by trying to con the fan base with their nonsense talk are going to find it harder to pull the wool.

You're right in that we are a captive audience. In any other business people would have long since gone elsewhere, but we can't.
But there are increasing rumblings of discontent at the rising prices for an ever worse product. Surely at some point people will snap en masse and refuse to keep going.

[Letters]

Yes. Appalling. Unless you are genuinely going to point at the top 4 and call it a trophy. Or tell me that the FA Cup is a worthy return on the resources available to this man. Utd, City, Chelsea, Liverpool even, Leicester FFS - all of these clubs can point to a major trophy in their cabinet. What can Wenger point at, by comparison? Fuck all is the answer. Fuck all sounds pretty appalling to me, considering what he's had to work with and how much cash is shovelled into his own pocket. The huge problem here is Wenger and his cronies have brainwashed so many of the fans into thinking being an also-ran has merit. A decade in which to build a team that can compete for a title and avoid being crushed by the first decent opponent in the CL. What is his record? Good? Average? Poor?

It's appalling.

And yet just 2 years ago in the wake of the first trophy in 10 years (one you now dismiss) and nothing else to show in those 10 years but perennial top 4 finishes you applauded the idea of Wenger signing a new contract for us. But now that record is 'appalling'. Hmm.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think we all know that Giroud isn't going to win us a league title. I'm just picking Zim up on yet more goalpost shifting. He's a big fan of stats when they backup something he says, he dismisses them when they show him to be wrong. This bloke isn't significantly better than Giroud, Giroud keeps him out of the French team and his scoring stats are better, Gameiro has only scored 20 league goals in a season once in his entire career, he's clearly not an upgrade on what we have.

So cutting past all the Internet scoring, we accept that Giroud isn't good enough to win us a major trophy.

How long has he been leading the line for Arsenal now? Do you think Wenger believes Giroud is good enough? Because if he does then he's precisely the incompetent fool he's been called. But what if he doesn't believe Giroud is good enough. That would make him a negligent fraud, wouldn't it? A guy who claims to be a top manager and who pours his every minute into the club trying to win? That would be a lie, wouldn't it? So we have either an incompetent fool or a fraud and a liar. I actually think he's all of those things.

The question then. When is he going to fuck off so we can get a competent and competitive guy in to do the job properly?

[Niall_Quinn]

And yet just 2 years ago in the wake of the first trophy in 10 years (one you now dismiss) and nothing else to show in those 10 years but perennial top 4 finishes you applauded the idea of Wenger signing a new contract for us. But now that record is 'appalling'. Hmm.

On the basis the FA Cup was a prelude to a serious push for bigger honours. This is not difficult to understand at all, yet you struggle. Unless you are saying the FA Cup was somehow the pinnacle of our ambition? We won the cup and then we... did fuck all to push on. In fact Wenger busied himself further destroying our football so not only were we not competing but we were being bored to tears as a bonus.

Seriously though, how do you have a good word to say about this fraud after all this time?

[Niall_Quinn]

You're right in that we are a captive audience. In any other business people would have long since gone elsewhere, but we can't.
But there are increasing rumblings of discontent at the rising prices for an ever worse product. Surely at some point people will snap en masse and refuse to keep going.

I doubt it, because it's all drifting down the American razzmatazz route, being there for the spectacle (or to see us make a spectacle of ourselves more like) is what is is increasingly becoming all about. Big stadiums, pumping anthems, big screens, a flood of advertising, pundits crawling around the place like an army of ants, spinning graphics, bouncing logos, money, money, money.

But shit football.

And nobody seems to care. It's like one of those big venue bands that can't sing and can't play, but wow, the stage effects were that good they distracted you for long enough to forget how lousy the main event was.

The stadiums will stay full, or mostly full. There are more than enough fools out there with money to be easily parted from.

[Özim]

Didn't Giroud go 18 games without scoring a goal, or something like that? That's what kills you, the inconsistency. Better to have a striker that scores less but scores every other week than a part-timer like Giroud who score in one clump and then fucks off for the rest of the season.

Precisely, awaful striker, let us down when we needed him the most last season when he went a ridiculous amount of games without a goal, what sums him up was that horrible miss in the Euros where he was clean through, had a player free in the centre but carried on like an oaf and fluffed the chance, he's 2nd rate and the fact we've had him as out main striker is further embarassing.

So yes I would try Gameiro over him because he's a different typ of player and probably doesn't score all his goals in 5 games out of 38.

[Özim]

You're making shit up as usual. I said we need to sign world class players to compensate for the failings of our manager. If we had enough players with the talent and character then maybe collectively they could beat the handicap that Wenger imposes on the club season after season. But Wenger is such a fraud even a team of Ozil's might not be enough. But that's not to say we shouldn't try. Of course the old git has that avenue covered too, with the chequebook secreted up his anus every transfer window and manure gushing out of his gob in 101 excuses. Keep apologising for him all day long. His record speaks more for him than you try to do.

That's his trademark line, "shifting the goalposts" he uses it everytime he disagrees with someone, it's repetitive just like his idol Wenger.

[Özim]

And yet just 2 years ago in the wake of the first trophy in 10 years (one you now dismiss) and nothing else to show in those 10 years but perennial top 4 finishes you applauded the idea of Wenger signing a new contract for us. But now that record is 'appalling'. Hmm.

His record is awful, he's a proven loser, 10+ years shows this, no heart for the fight, no guts and he's built a team who play anti-football, absolutely no entertainment and yet the guy has the cheek to claim entertaining football is important. He's a walking contradiction and a clueless one at that.

[Özim]

It's also that not finishing lower than fourth whilst massively overstated as an achievement is a consistency that no other club has achieved, and would be beyond the level of a shit manager.

He's not a top manager because he doesn't have the ability to achieve big trophies, but difference between not being a top manager and being shit.

And the problem is there are people on here (and I don't mean you) who seem to think any manager would be better than Wenger.

There's a reason for this, all other clubs have had to change manager and it takes a certain amount of time to adapt, moreover their aim is to win the title which invariably means taking more risk with signings etc not getting a top 4 slot which no big club would realistically care about long term, big clubs want to win, we're only interested in top 4, a big club with a small club mentality.

I'd prefer to come lower down in a couple seasons and then perhaps winning a major trophy then coming 4th and making up the numbers in the CL a competition which as well as containing winners, contains club like Arsenal who are only just interested in the money and not the of satisfaction success.

[Özim]

I think we all know that Giroud isn't going to win us a league title. I'm just picking Zim up on yet more goalpost shifting. He's a big fan of stats when they backup something he says, he dismisses them when they show him to be wrong. This bloke isn't significantly better than Giroud, Giroud keeps him out of the French team and his scoring stats are better, Gameiro has only scored 20 league goals in a season once in his entire career, he's clearly not an upgrade on what we have.

I'm not a big fan of the stats at all (again more BS from you), I prefer to use stats with real life examples of how those stats are made up, stats alone are not a great gauge, but what we know about Giroud is his stats are misleading as he goes for long periods without scoring goals and scores a few in nothing games, a hopeless striker we don't need, would rather have someone who scores in 20 different games, rather than a guy like Giroud who scores 20 in 7 games.

[Özim]

I doubt it, because it's all drifting down the American razzmatazz route, being there for the spectacle (or to see us make a spectacle of ourselves more like) is what is is increasingly becoming all about. Big stadiums, pumping anthems, big screens, a flood of advertising, pundits crawling around the place like an army of ants, spinning graphics, bouncing logos, money, money, money.

But shit football.

And nobody seems to care. It's like one of those big venue bands that can't sing and can't play, but wow, the stage effects were that good they distracted you for long enough to forget how lousy the main event was.

The stadiums will stay full, or mostly full. There are more than enough fools out there with money to be easily parted from.

As we saw last season that's the problem, there's a big group brainashed into being happy with what we have a living in fear that it might ever have to change, but what do we have to lose, sh*t football, being a 4th place loser and qualifying for a tournament we get humbled at the same stage every year, awful transfer activity and management, awful tactics, an injury crisis?

The club have done a great jon in that respect, convincing people that being losers is a great achievement and that any shift away from that could lead to possible relegation or doing a Leeds. It's embarassing.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

There's a reason for this, all other clubs have had to change manager and it takes a certain amount of time to adapt, moreover their aim is to win the title which invariably means taking more risk with signings etc not getting a top 4 slot which no big club would realistically care about long term, big clubs want to win, we're only interested in top 4, a big club with a small club mentality.

I'd prefer to come lower down in a couple seasons and then perhaps winning a major trophy then coming 4th and making up the numbers in the CL a competition which as well as containing winners, contains club like Arsenal who are only just interested in the money and not the of satisfaction success.

Except that's not what tends to happen, you have had instances where clubs come close to winning the title one season and then fall out of the top four the next season under the same manager.

[Özim]

Except that's not what tends to happen, you have had instances where clubs come close to winning the title one season and then fall out of the top four the next season under the same manager.

That does happen yes, on some occasions, usually because teams aren't as motivated when the season starts after winning the title for one reason or another, generally they pick up during the season however, but again I'd prefer this to this horrible top 4 slog which actually means nothing for me and brings no enjoyment whatsoever.

What Wenger offers has 0 appeal and is a non achievement in pure football terms.

[Letters]

That's his trademark line, "shifting the goalposts" he uses it everytime he disagrees with someone.
No, I say it every time you move the goalposts.
If I say it a lot it's because you do it constantly.
:tiphat:

[Letters]

rather than a guy like Giroud who scores 20 in 7 games.
:lol:

Making things up :bow:

[bignev]

So cutting past all the Internet scoring, we accept that Giroud isn't good enough to win us a major trophy.


He's not the world class striker we need, no. I've not said he is and neither has Letters from what I can see.



Do you think Wenger believes Giroud is good enough?

No he doesn't believe he is. Which is why he has said he wants to sign a new striker.




Do you think Wenger believes Giroud is good enough? Because if he does then he's precisely the incompetent fool he's been called. But what if he doesn't believe Giroud is good enough. That would make him a negligent fraud, wouldn't it?

No




A guy who claims to be a top manager and who pours his every minute into the club trying to win? That would be a lie, wouldn't it? So we have either an incompetent fool or a fraud and a liar. I actually think he's all of those things.


He's never claimed he's a top manager.

He's clearly not incompetent as we've discussed already.

I'm not sure what makes him a "fraud" to be honest. That's one of those things people call him on the internet during their vitriolic rants. It doesn't really make sense or add up.

A liar. Not sure what he has lied about to be honest.

What Wenger is, is stubborn and principled. He knows he needs a striker but not just any striker, he wants a top striker. Most of those are unavailable and the ones that are available don't represent value (in Wenger's eyes).

So then you have to look at the next best option. That's an up and coming striker who could become world class. This is where we're failing. I assume that Wenger also feels that most of these don't warrant their price tags either. Now in my eyes we have to pay the money for this type of striker - we don't have a choice about this. We can't go into the season with just Giroud as a striker.

I can predict what will happen now. We'll keep looking for a striker for the next few weeks and nothing will materialise. Towards the end of the window we'll make a bigger bid for a striker (Lacazette probably) and this will fail as they won't have time to replace him. Then we'll try and sign Mahrez to add something to our attack. This will also fail for the same reason. We'll end up with no one new attacking wise. You'll have a brain embolism from pure rage and i'll resign myself to another painful season.

[Letters]

On the basis the FA Cup was a prelude to a serious push for bigger honours. This is not difficult to understand at all, yet you struggle.
No, I don't struggle with that idea. That makes perfect sense and I, too, hoped it would be the start of greater things. It wasn't and that's why I think Wenger should be sacked. Retaining the FA Cup IMO bought him one last try but last season with all the other big boys imploding was a golden opportunity to finally win the title and we cocked it right up. So yes, he should be sacked.
But what doesn't make sense is the way you spent so much of last season saying it's '10 years of failure'. If you think that then you clearly regard the years post 2004 up till and including the first FA Cup win to have been ones of failure. To me that is a very simplistic. And given that you also now dismiss the FA Cup as a minor trophy it makes no sense for that one trophy after all those years of what you regard as failure to be happy with Wenger signing a new contract. So you clearly didn't regard them as an unmitigated failure 2 years ago, now you do. You have done a complete U turn, that's the bit that makes no sense.

Seriously though, how do you have a good word to say about this fraud after all this time?
Well, as discussed I think he should be sacked. Does that mean I think he's as bad as you make out? No. So yes, I'll defend him against a lot of the more extreme nonsense on here, people hammering him when he says things they basically agree with, all that nonsense. That doesn't mean I'm 'sucking his cock' and think he can do no wrong.

[Letters]

What Wenger is, is stubborn and principled. He knows he needs a striker but not just any striker, he wants a top striker. Most of those are unavailable and the ones that are available don't represent value (in Wenger's eyes).
That :good:

In my view last summer he thought he should either sign someone who was going to properly push us on or not bother at all, why sign another Giroud or Welbeck level player? What does that add? A bit of squad depth I guess but I'm not sure it would have won us the title. So I have some sympathy with that view. But where he got it wrong is not getting his man and it cost us. You need a top striker to win you the league, whether Vardy is one is debatable but he was scoring like one last season and that won them the title. In theory we had plenty of goals in the side so I can see why he might have thought that we could get enough goals from midfield to mitigate the lack of 'an Aguero' but given that it didn't work out it was even more important to 'go big or go home' this summer and, so far, he hasn't.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's not the world class striker we need, no. I've not said he is and neither has Letters from what I can see.



No he doesn't believe he is. Which is why he has said he wants to sign a new striker.




No




He's never claimed he's a top manager.

He's clearly not incompetent as we've discussed already.

I'm not sure what makes him a "fraud" to be honest. That's one of those things people call him on the internet during their vitriolic rants. It doesn't really make sense or add up.

A liar. Not sure what he has lied about to be honest.

What Wenger is, is stubborn and principled. He knows he needs a striker but not just any striker, he wants a top striker. Most of those are unavailable and the ones that are available don't represent value (in Wenger's eyes).

So then you have to look at the next best option. That's an up and coming striker who could become world class. This is where we're failing. I assume that Wenger also feels that most of these don't warrant their price tags either. Now in my eyes we have to pay the money for this type of striker - we don't have a choice about this. We can't go into the season with just Giroud as a striker.

I can predict what will happen now. We'll keep looking for a striker for the next few weeks and nothing will materialise. Towards the end of the window we'll make a bigger bid for a striker (Lacazette probably) and this will fail as they won't have time to replace him. Then we'll try and sign Mahrez to add something to our attack. This will also fail for the same reason. We'll end up with no one new attacking wise. You'll have a brain embolism from pure rage and i'll resign myself to another painful season.

You're probably right in predicting we won't do enough to sign a striker. Because that's what it boils down to, Wenger's insane take on value in a market where value has become meaningless and his "principles" that he rigidly adheres to even though it means he's become the biggest impediment to the club and the fundamental purpose of the club, competing in competitive sport. I say he's a fraud and a liar because, like the rest of them, the stadium move was sold as a vehicle to compete at the top of the game. A world class stadium filled with players to match, if you recall. Plainly that was never the intention. The valuation of the club has sky-rocketed and the trophy cabinet has been stripped. The quality of football has plunged from the very peaks of the game into a common sewer. The exact opposite of the stated goals of the stadium move has been achieved, fortune for a few, nothing for the rest. Wenger has been a beneficiary of this deceit for a decade. His principles are conveniently self focused. His way, his ideas, his rules, all leading to his wallet and his bosses' wallet while they bemoan the state of the market they personally benefit from and whine about their inability to compete from atop their mountain of cash. And come 2019 when the "big 5" clubs that are systematically destroying football sign up their cosy little arrangement to lock themselves into the CL revenue stream then the long term plan will be completed. Wenger with his so called principles will have been a principal architect.

[Niall_Quinn]

No, I don't struggle with that idea. That makes perfect sense and I, too, hoped it would be the start of greater things. It wasn't and that's why I think Wenger should be sacked. Retaining the FA Cup IMO bought him one last try but last season with all the other big boys imploding was a golden opportunity to finally win the title and we cocked it right up. So yes, he should be sacked.
But what doesn't make sense is the way you spent so much of last season saying it's '10 years of failure'. If you think that then you clearly regard the years post 2004 up till and including the first FA Cup win to have been ones of failure. To me that is a very simplistic. And given that you also now dismiss the FA Cup as a minor trophy it makes no sense for that one trophy after all those years of what you regard as failure to be happy with Wenger signing a new contract. So you clearly didn't regard them as an unmitigated failure 2 years ago, now you do. You have done a complete U turn, that's the bit that makes no sense.

Well, as discussed I think he should be sacked. Does that mean I think he's as bad as you make out? No. So yes, I'll defend him against a lot of the more extreme nonsense on here, people hammering him when he says things they basically agree with, all that nonsense. That doesn't mean I'm 'sucking his cock' and think he can do no wrong.

You say you get the idea and then you go into detail to prove you don't. Put another way, if somebody pisses in your face for a decade and then stops and apologises you can either accept their apology of punch them in the throat. If you accept their apology and then they immediately piss in your face it is perfectly legitimate to end them.

You keep saying you want him sacked but you are always on hand to defend the guy, at every turn. I think you want him sacked, provided he remains as manager. But okay. The good things about Wenger 2016. What are they?

[Niall_Quinn]

Chavs are lining up a £60mill bid for Lumpkaku.

[Letters]

You say you get the idea and then you go into detail to prove you don't. Put another way, if somebody pisses in your face for a decade and then stops and apologises you can either accept their apology of punch them in the throat. If you accept their apology and then they immediately piss in your face it is perfectly legitimate to end them.
If someone spent a decade pissing on my face then I may well accept their apology but I certainly wouldn't entertain the notion of giving them a chance to continue to do so. So if you really think the decade from 2004-2013 were as bad as that then I don't believe the FA Cup (which, to continue your analogy, is a half-hearted apology at best if you think it's as minor a trophy as you now claim) would be enough for you to be happy with Wenger signing a new contract.


You keep saying you want him sacked but you are always on hand to defend the guy, at every turn.
Well, that's just not true. You know it's not true.
But I will defend him against bullshit and hyperbole and people who spout bile at everything he says, even if they agree with it.

I think you want him sacked, provided he remains as manager.
I'm sure you think that's clever. It's hardly Oscar Wilde.

But okay. The good things about Wenger 2016. What are they?
He's built a good squad, one capable of challenging for the title in my view or very close to, and done so while keeping the finances of the club very healthy and keeping us in the CL places. I don't think he should be our manager but we're in very good shape for whoever comes in, Wenger deserves some credit for that. If he was as bad as you suggest then we'd be nowhere near the top 4.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think we can play Ozil wide either...... and I'd start with Theo up front, particularly with Xhaka and Ozil in the team. Use the early and precise ball to our full advantage. Think Giroud has extra time off anyway so won't start the season.

Yes, I'd prefer to play Walcott up front as well but I can't see it happening. We need a pacey striker and I think we'd get more from Ozil with someone with pace, but because I think Wenger will continue with Giroud, I think Ozil is better off whipping in crosses to Giroud. Maybe playing him wide will force him to be more direct with his dribbling also. If we were to play him in a central role I'd say we play him as a CM. The way he plays really reminds me more of a CM than an actual AM.

[Niall_Quinn]

If someone spent a decade pissing on my face then I may well accept their apology but I certainly wouldn't entertain the notion of giving them a chance to continue to do so. So if you really think the decade from 2004-2013 were as bad as that then I don't believe the FA Cup (which, to continue your analogy, is a half-hearted apology at best if you think it's as minor a trophy as you now claim) would be enough for you to be happy with Wenger signing a new contract.


Well, that's just not true. You know it's not true.
But I will defend him against bullshit and hyperbole and people who spout bile at everything he says, even if they agree with it.

I'm sure you think that's clever. It's hardly Oscar Wilde.

He's built a good squad, one capable of challenging for the title in my view or very close to, and done so while keeping the finances of the club very healthy and keeping us in the CL places. I don't think he should be our manager but we're in very good shape for whoever comes in, Wenger deserves some credit for that. If he was as bad as you suggest then we'd be nowhere near the top 4.

One more try and that's it.

Wenger: shit for years = Hmmm, mumble, eyebrows raised, question, complain, protest... GTFO you fucking moron!
Wenger: Starts signing players and wins a cup = Well okay, finally this old goat has got the message. Thank fuck for that. Now let's push on!
Wenger: Ever shittier then before. Keeps playing a lump of shit up top and develops our game into the most boring football seen in a generation = Right then, you had your chance, now fuck off! No more chances, no more excuses, GTFO and stay out!

The FA Cup is most certainly a minor trophy. Only the most desperate would seeks to give it a significance in reference to a supposedly big club. But, it's better to win the thing than not win it. That goes for any trophy. And considering Wenger was football's laughing stock for winning fuck all for so long (without getting sacked), it was a big deal for the club to finally win something, anything. NOT because it was a big achievement, but because the club need that monkey off its back. But if that's the lot, if you are going to hoist up the Fuck All Cup and say that's it, we've done it, success! Then fuck right off. That's the START of a process. A transition from a shower of shite to maybe, just maybe this old fool has a few tricks left in him yet. False dawn. He's worse than ever.

And the only thing you can come up with in genuine defence of the bloke is money and the Top 4 Trophy - the very thing that he's accused of selling out for. Other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play? I think there can be no understanding between the pro-Wenger cultists and non-members.

[Xhaka Can’t]

You have said previously that new signings won't make a difference. But you keep complaining we're not making new signings.
Dress it up how you like, you're contradicting yourself so you can score more IHateWengerMoreThanYou points.
Still think Zim is winning but you're catching up. NQ can speak for himself, but I share some of what you regard as contradictory views.

We need new quality signings, particularly in those positions where we have, little, no or waning quality. But regardless of what we do in the window, Wenger will leave gaps and he will under deliver on the talent he does have at his disposal.

[Letters]

NQ can speak for himself, but I share some of what you regard as contradictory views.

We need new quality signings, particularly in those positions where we have, little, no or waning quality. But regardless of what we do in the window, Wenger will leave gaps and he will under deliver on the talent he does have at his disposal.

You could argue that Wenger has always under-delivered, that squad back in the day should have won the Champions League and should have retained the title. We should have won 3 in a row from 2002-2004. But that was balanced out by the fact we did win a load of trophies and it was so good to watch that the odd failing could be glossed over. And that's different to saying that new signings would make no difference while Wenger is in charge and NQ can shout DIDN'T, DIDN'T, DIDN'T loud as he likes, he HAS said that.

[Letters]

One more try and that's it.

Wenger: shit for years = Hmmm, mumble, eyebrows raised, question, complain, protest... GTFO you fucking moron!
Wenger: Starts signing players and wins a cup = Well okay, finally this old goat has got the message. Thank fuck for that. Now let's push on!
Wenger: Ever shittier then before. Keeps playing a lump of shit up top and develops our game into the most boring football seen in a generation = Right then, you had your chance, now fuck off! No more chances, no more excuses, GTFO and stay out!

Yeah, except in 2013 when there was talk of Wenger signing a new contract you said:


Wenger is easily the best manager in the world, there's little doubt about that given what he's achieved.

But he's a mediocre football coach.

So, woohoo, for the board.

Meh, for the fans.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2325&page=3

That was before the FA Cup so after what you're now calling 'shit for years'. So I don't believe you thought it was that bad, it's a lot more nuanced than that with the stadium move and the billionaires coming in and having the biggest impact. The issue for me is that now we have the financial power to properly compete and we're still failing to, that's why he should go. But I'm not going to pretend it's been 12 years of unmitigated failure just to score more "I H8 WUMGER MORE THAN U" points.

[bignev]

That :good:

In my view last summer he thought he should either sign someone who was going to properly push us on or not bother at all, why sign another Giroud or Welbeck level player? What does that add? A bit of squad depth I guess but I'm not sure it would have won us the title. So I have some sympathy with that view. But where he got it wrong is not getting his man and it cost us. You need a top striker to win you the league, whether Vardy is one is debatable but he was scoring like one last season and that won them the title. In theory we had plenty of goals in the side so I can see why he might have thought that we could get enough goals from midfield to mitigate the lack of 'an Aguero' but given that it didn't work out it was even more important to 'go big or go home' this summer and, so far, he hasn't.

100% agree with this. I have some sympathy with Arsenal not wanting to pay way over the odds for a striker. However we desperately need a striker and we simply have to pay what it takes to get a good one, even if it's more than their value.

Assuming that Welbeck wasn't out for the best part of a year and Giroud wasn't going to miss the start of the season I would still want a striker. When you take into account neither of them will be available for the first few games it's madness to stick with what we have. I can only assume Akpom will start up front :doh:

[Power n Glory]

So cutting past all the Internet scoring, we accept that Giroud isn't good enough to win us a major trophy.

How long has he been leading the line for Arsenal now? Do you think Wenger believes Giroud is good enough? Because if he does then he's precisely the incompetent fool he's been called. But what if he doesn't believe Giroud is good enough. That would make him a negligent fraud, wouldn't it? A guy who claims to be a top manager and who pours his every minute into the club trying to win? That would be a lie, wouldn't it? So we have either an incompetent fool or a fraud and a liar. I actually think he's all of those things.

The question then. When is he going to fuck off so we can get a competent and competitive guy in to do the job properly?

Wenger has to realise Giroud is a big problem for us.

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/03/has-arsene-wenger-just-confirmed-that-olivier-giroud-isnt-the-right-man-for-arsenal-5921632/


‘What has happened is in the last 10 years, strikers have become quicker and quicker,’ Wenger explained.
‘What happened then? The defence responded by creating defenders who are quicker and quicker. So now to put in strikers who are slow, you have really a big problem.’
He has a serious blind spot if he doesn’t after saying the above. Even if we fail to buy a striker, I’d much rather he’d give a pacey player a run up front. At least 10 games or so.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The ongoing TDK D90 saga shows the schizoid nature of journalism

Lacazette 26th July - Arsenal made a derisory offer that wasn't even deserving of an answer, no higher bid forthcoming and Lacazette staying

Lacazette 1st August - Arsenal to go in with a higher bid

[Power n Glory]

The ongoing TDK D90 saga shows the schizoid nature of journalism

Lacazette 26th July - Arsenal made a derisory offer that wasn't even deserving of an answer, no higher bid forthcoming and Lacazette staying

Lacazette 1st August - Arsenal to go in with a higher bid

It’s nothing unusual. Boil it down to the basics. We have a striker in France that wants to leave, a stubborn club that won’t let him go for cheap and a club that needs to but a pacey striker. If we don’t sign Lacazette but end up signing another striker, we’ve moved on. If we don’t sign a striker at all, we’ve fucked up. Until I hear murmurs of a medical or Lyon confirm they’ve accepted our bid, I’m not paying too much attention to the rest of the stuff.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

My personal preference is to sign Mahrez and play Alexis or Walcott up front. Of course anyone might say to me why not buy Mahrez and a striker....I personally would, but let's be realistic it's an either or situation.

The lack of chances created from the right wing last season was telling.

[Özim]

100% agree with this. I have some sympathy with Arsenal not wanting to pay way over the odds for a striker. However we desperately need a striker and we simply have to pay what it takes to get a good one, even if it's more than their value.

Assuming that Welbeck wasn't out for the best part of a year and Giroud wasn't going to miss the start of the season I would still want a striker. When you take into account neither of them will be available for the first few games it's madness to stick with what we have. I can only assume Akpom will start up front :doh:

I've got no sympathy at all, the club are happy to charge sky high prices to the fans for an sub-quality product, getting huge amounts from the new TV deals and have been making lots of money for quite some time now, everyone else pays up, even smaller clubs so I don't see why we should be any different.

[selassie]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/92/67/8e/92678e99776c774b56c996cce46052a8.jpg

[Özim]

If someone spent a decade pissing on my face then I may well accept their apology but I certainly wouldn't entertain the notion of giving them a chance to continue to do so. So if you really think the decade from 2004-2013 were as bad as that then I don't believe the FA Cup (which, to continue your analogy, is a half-hearted apology at best if you think it's as minor a trophy as you now claim) would be enough for you to be happy with Wenger signing a new contract.


Well, that's just not true. You know it's not true.
But I will defend him against bullshit and hyperbole and people who spout bile at everything he says, even if they agree with it.

I'm sure you think that's clever. It's hardly Oscar Wilde.

He's built a good squad, one capable of challenging for the title in my view or very close to, and done so while keeping the finances of the club very healthy and keeping us in the CL places. I don't think he should be our manager but we're in very good shape for whoever comes in, Wenger deserves some credit for that. If he was as bad as you suggest then we'd be nowhere near the top 4.

You're always defending Wenger which I simply don't understand, the stuff he comes out with, he's very arrogant and also quick to point fingers at other people without ever accepting responsibility, I could understand your viewpoint if the man was more apologetic and accept he's made mistakes, but no the guy does the same thing every season, harping on about how he's right because this or that (now it's Leicester) despite being a failure (and yes he is a failure because he's not won a major trophy since 2004 despite numerous opportunities and plenrty of resources at his disposal as well as a very stable environment where he can do whatever he likes), making allsorts of excuses and of course blaming the refs/the fans/ the money.

If he was more humble you might have a point, but quite the opposite, his head has got so big you they have to use a crane to lift him out of the Emirates stadium. I've got no sympathy with him and don't feel at all sorry for him, he earns a load of cash off the back of the fans and has the easiest job in football IMO, a job at a big club where he's his own boss and failure comes with no penalty, he won a few trophies many years ago and yes it was great, but that was a long time ago and he's now spent 12 years without any real success, to put it bluntly he's won 3 titles and had no sucess in the CL in 19 years and has seen nothing in 12, that's a damning stat.

[Letters]

You're always defending Wenger which I simply don't understand.
Again, I will defend him against hyperbole and bullshit. If I'm 'always' doing so it's because you and others are 'always' spouting it.
All top managers are arrogant, all the things you hammer Wenger for are equally true of managers you admire. This is another example of your goalpost shifting.
This is not about sympathy or feeling sorry for him, it's about calling out bullshit.

All that said, your post above about paying up I agree with. Prices are crazy and I understand if Wenger baulks at them, but ultimately we have the cash, we need to compete and we should spend big to do so now we're able to.

[Power n Glory]

Again, I will defend him against hyperbole and bullshit. If I'm 'always' doing so it's because you and others are 'always' spouting it.
All top managers are arrogant, all the things you hammer Wenger for are equally true of managers you admire. This is another example of your goalpost shifting.
This is not about sympathy or feeling sorry for him, it's about calling out bullshit.

All that said, your post above about paying up I agree with. Prices are crazy and I understand if Wenger baulks at them, but ultimately we have the cash, we need to compete and we should spend big to do so now we're able to.

Take some responsibility in that case. For last 3/4 pages you've carried on the stuff you say is driving people away from the Board. Give it a break.

[Özim]

Again, I will defend him against hyperbole and bullshit. If I'm 'always' doing so it's because you and others are 'always' spouting it.
All top managers are arrogant, all the things you hammer Wenger for are equally true of managers you admire. This is another example of your goalpost shifting.
This is not about sympathy or feeling sorry for him, it's about calling out bullshit.

All that said, your post above about paying up I agree with. Prices are crazy and I understand if Wenger baulks at them, but ultimately we have the cash, we need to compete and we should spend big to do so now we're able to.

He's not a top manager, he's barely won a thing in 12 years, I can accept arrogance from successful manager but not a guy who wins nothing, other manager win league titles, champions league and their teams don't repeatedly collapse, they also don't stick to a losing formula year after year, they make changes when things don't work. In addition if they don't deliver they get the sack, unlike Wenger who gets to carry on as if nothing has happened, as Mourinho once said he gets to play kids whenever he wants because if he doens't win he still has a job, no other manager has that luxury. There isn't one other manager at a top club that would hae survived anywhere near as long as Wenger with his record.

You still see him as top manager and can't see the distinction between a manager who fails and tries again with a new method and one that fails time and time again and won't change and what's more insists he's right.

In the end thought this is a thread about transfers and every single season he leaves us short and fails to deliver in the transfer market, it's really not bad luck anymore (if it was even), its' incompetence.

[Letters]

Take some responsibility in that case. For last 3/4 pages you've carried on the stuff you say is driving people away from the Board. Give it a break.

I will 'give it a break' if they do. If I ignore it then it will happen all season. If I and others call people on it then maybe we'll return to some more sensible debate.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

To be fair i don't think i've seen anything Letters has written which has even implied he is a top manager, he's not

Where i disagree with people on the Wenger out side (not that i am not Wenger out) is something which is irrefutable to me, that regardless of his shortcomings that a new manager would be rubbing their hands in glee at what they had to work with in terms of financial and squad resources. Does the squad require additions?....are there a few players who arguably have been kept at the club too long? yes.....but Wenger when he decides to shove off leaves the club in good health....the problem is waiting for him to go so that a more ambitious and more tactically innovate manager can make the most of the tools he has to work with

On the other hand i don't think people stay away from here because of the adversarial nature of the discourse, if anything i think that's the only thing that keeps people coming here.

[Özim]

To be fair i don't think i've seen anything Letters has written which has even implied he is a top manager, he's not

What about this:


Again, I will defend him against hyperbole and bullshit. If I'm 'always' doing so it's because you and others are 'always' spouting it.
All top managers are arrogant, all the things you hammer Wenger for are equally true of managers you admire. This is another example of your goalpost shifting.
This is not about sympathy or feeling sorry for him, it's about calling out bullshit.

All that said, your post above about paying up I agree with. Prices are crazy and I understand if Wenger baulks at them, but ultimately we have the cash, we need to compete and we should spend big to do so now we're able to.

[Power n Glory]

You're always defending Wenger which I simply don't understand, the stuff he comes out with, he's very arrogant and also quick to point fingers at other people without ever accepting responsibility, I could understand your viewpoint if the man was more apologetic and accept he's made mistakes, but no the guy does the same thing every season, harping on about how he's right because this or that (now it's Leicester) despite being a failure (and yes he is a failure because he's not won a major trophy since 2004 despite numerous opportunities and plenrty of resources at his disposal as well as a very stable environment where he can do whatever he likes), making allsorts of excuses and of course blaming the refs/the fans/ the money.

If he was more humble you might have a point, but quite the opposite, his head has got so big you they have to use a crane to lift him out of the Emirates stadium. I've got no sympathy with him and don't feel at all sorry for him, he earns a load of cash off the back of the fans and has the easiest job in football IMO, a job at a big club where he's his own boss and failure comes with no penalty, he won a few trophies many years ago and yes it was great, but that was a long time ago and he's now spent 12 years without any real success, to put it bluntly he's won 3 titles and had no sucess in the CL in 19 years and has seen nothing in 12, that's a damning stat.

You’ve summed up what I dislike most about Wenger. Last season when he blamed the fans for our form, that was enough for me. By the time he goes, he may leave a fragmented fan base behind that won’t heal so quickly even with a new manager on board. I’m still waiting for the day for the media to paint the fans in the worst possible light when it all gets a bit on top. I really hope we don’t have a repeat of last season but it’s looking like it’s getting close.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Again i don't think that necessarily implies Wenger is a top manager.

It's just that you chide Wenger for being arrogant, when it's a trait of top managers. You think because Wenger isn't a top manager he should be more humble, but that's more about your disdain for the man....how dare he not meet my expectations and not be contrite about it.

Well hypothetically assume we had a better manager in, and despite having won big trophies had a lean spell for a year or so, do you expect him to be apologetic about it?

[Letters]

To be fair i don't think i've seen anything Letters has written which has even implied he is a top manager, he's not.
There is no objective measure of what 'top manager' means so we can spend all day shouting "yes he is", "no he isn't" but it's all a bit meaningless.
He's nowhere near as bad as some people make out, let's just leave it at that.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You’ve summed up what I dislike most about Wenger. Last season when he blamed the fans for our form, that was enough for me. By the time he goes, he may leave a fragmented fan base behind that won’t heal so quickly even with a new manager on board. I’m still waiting for the day for the media to paint the fans in the worst possible light when it all gets a bit on top. I really hope we don’t have a repeat of last season but it’s looking like it’s getting close.

Whilst he was totally out of order to blame the fans, if the fan base is still fragmented even after he goes than they need to look at themselves and take responsibility for their own attitude and behaviour.
I always thought blaming Wenger for fans infighting seems absurd and infantilising the fans. You see it everywhere today, the discourse has completely changed from disagreeing with someone to thinking that person is contemptible for not sharing the same point of view.

I get insulted and patronised by both tribes in the Wenger In/Wenger Out discussion because I dare to think being entrenched on either side is ridiculous.

[Power n Glory]

I will 'give it a break' if they do. If I ignore it then it will happen all season. If I and others call people on it then maybe we'll return to some more sensible debate.


:doh: The sensible debate has passed. Everyone that has said their piece has said it already. Are you getting anything new from this debate? Has it sparked a sensible debate over the past few days? In fact, whose to say this isn't a sensible debate. It's just being by an isolated few.

The only thing that will stop the negativity is if we do something positive in the transfer window and make a real go of the season. Your defence of Wenger isn't going to stop anything. It's just regurgitating the same stuff over and over. Even after a positive result you'll goad Zim back into the debate with a 'Where's Zim' post. It just sparks the same debate over and over again.

[Letters]

It's just regurgitating the same stuff over and over.
As are they, but as always you only pick me up on it because of your little vendetta against me :lol:

[Power n Glory]

Whilst he was totally out of order to blame the fans, if the fan base is still fragmented even after he goes than they need to look at themselves and take responsibility for their own attitude and behaviour.
I always thought blaming Wenger for fans infighting seems absurd and infantilising the fans. You see it everywhere today, the discourse has completely changed from disagreeing with someone to thinking that person is contemptible for not sharing the same point of view.

I get insulted and patronised by both tribes in the Wenger In/Wenger Out discussion because I dare to think being entrenched on either side is ridiculous.

Pat yourself on the back. :good:

[Power n Glory]

As are they, but as always you only pick me up on it because of your little vendetta against me :lol:

No, because you're the one always making out that this is driving people away from GW and people are tired of it. I also notice that you only get into back to back posts when it comes to Wenger so it seems like you're the one that enjoys it the most.

[Letters]

I'm not 'making out' anything. Other people have said it.

[bignev]

I get insulted and patronised by both tribes in the Wenger In/Wenger Out discussion because I dare to think being entrenched on either side is ridiculous.

I think most of us think it's ridiculous. I know I do. We all have our own opinions but I think we all agree on one thing. There need to be changes at Arsenal in the way that we operate off the pitch and the way we perform on it.

In other news apparently we're going back with a bigger bid for Lacazette. I'm not that convinced about him to be honest. Whenever I've seen him he's never really impressed me. However my desperation for us to sign a striker has now reached such a level that I want us to sign him.

[Letters]

I don't really follow football these days enough to know all the players everywhere but just had a look and Lacazette's stats (stats :bow:) over the last 2 years in particular have been impressive.
Any port in a storm...

[Power n Glory]

I'm not 'making out' anything. Other people have said it.

Others can speak for themselves. Also, you're part of the GW mod/admin team hence why I'm talking to you in the first place. I'm not trying to change your opinion on Wenger because last season was enough and if you don't see it now, you never will. Draw your own conclusions. But trying to point the finger at a couple of individuals for the nature of this board when you participate on it on a daily and continue to isn't helping. The penny should have dropped by by. Spark a different conversation if it's that bothersome.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yeah, except in 2013 when there was talk of Wenger signing a new contract you said:



http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2325&page=3

That was before the FA Cup so after what you're now calling 'shit for years'. So I don't believe you thought it was that bad, it's a lot more nuanced than that with the stadium move and the billionaires coming in and having the biggest impact. The issue for me is that now we have the financial power to properly compete and we're still failing to, that's why he should go. But I'm not going to pretend it's been 12 years of unmitigated failure just to score more "I H8 WUMGER MORE THAN U" points.

:doh:

But at least we know now it's your comprehension skills that are causing this disconnect. What do you think the 'great for the board' and 'meh for the fans' part of that message is blatantly hinting at?

You do this all the time. You can't find any way to legitimately defend Wenger, because there isn't one, so you trawl back through posts, misinterpret what you find and then try to counter you misinterpretation. Therefore, whatever whoever said in criticism of Wenger is wrong. And now we have a manufactured win for Wenger by implication.

You did the same thing with the 10 points behind by August thing for a large part of the previous season. Bang, bang, bang on that one. Until we eventually did finish 10 points behind... drum roll... Leicester City. Then you went very silent on the matter.

You then top this behaviour off by confusing somebody else into agreeing with you, possibly somebody who hasn't read back on prior exchanges and therefore has to take things at face value. Then you seize on that comment and agree wholeheartedly and the cycle of deception is complete.

Finally, as a cherry for your cake, you nobly call for "balance" in the discussions.

:clap:

[Özim]

Again i don't think that necessarily implies Wenger is a top manager.

It's just that you chide Wenger for being arrogant, when it's a trait of top managers. You think because Wenger isn't a top manager he should be more humble, but that's more about your disdain for the man....how dare he not meet my expectations and not be contrite about it.

Well hypothetically assume we had a better manager in, and despite having won big trophies had a lean spell for a year or so, do you expect him to be apologetic about it?

Sorry I don't follow, I said Wenger is arrogant, he replied "All top managers are arrogant", this to me implies he sees Wenger in that category otherwise why mention top managers?

I don't like arrogance, but arrogance from someone failing is even more irritating. Wenger is arrogant, no doubt about it, it's been illustrated in his choice of words, for example when he mentioned the 20,000 substitutions etc etc

[Niall_Quinn]

To be fair i don't think i've seen anything Letters has written which has even implied he is a top manager, he's not

Where i disagree with people on the Wenger out side (not that i am not Wenger out) is something which is irrefutable to me, that regardless of his shortcomings that a new manager would be rubbing their hands in glee at what they had to work with in terms of financial and squad resources. Does the squad require additions?....are there a few players who arguably have been kept at the club too long? yes.....but Wenger when he decides to shove off leaves the club in good health....the problem is waiting for him to go so that a more ambitious and more tactically innovate manager can make the most of the tools he has to work with

On the other hand i don't think people stay away from here because of the adversarial nature of the discourse, if anything i think that's the only thing that keeps people coming here.

If Wenger had shoved off a few years back then I'm betting most of the fans would have said exactly that, well done Wenger, we remember the good times and you've left things in a decent enough state for the new guy.

However, he hasn't shoved off and he's decided to preside over the period where the purse strings have loosened (allegedly) and we are supposed to be delivering on a huge project designed to secure us at the top of the game. Wenger has done the opposite. He's securing us as a financially powerful also-ran. The very last thing most fans want to see, I suspect. What's it to the fans if we are in a financially stable condition? I, for one, want to see us play decent football (an absolute priority) and at least compete for the major honours as we should be doing at a club of this size and stature. There are no demands to win everything every season, just compete until the finish line. Instead we have a guy who won't do what it takes to compete and has produced a brand of football that induces coma. The question is, how long will this guy stay before handing over to somebody who can advance this club on the pitch and not just at the bank? If the fans don't pipe up it sounds like the board would have him here for as long as they can persuade him to stay. And as Wenger shows no signs at all he's prepared to change, that means we potentially face an open ended period of shit football and zero competition. Surely that can't be allowed to stand? If the manager hasn't the honesty and grace to bow out and the board actually wants him here for ever then who is left to get this club back on a football track? The fans. For better or worse, united or divided, it's just us. Or do we want to see this stubborn old fool persist for years to come?

[Niall_Quinn]

Again i don't think that necessarily implies Wenger is a top manager.

It's just that you chide Wenger for being arrogant, when it's a trait of top managers. You think because Wenger isn't a top manager he should be more humble, but that's more about your disdain for the man....how dare he not meet my expectations and not be contrite about it.

Well hypothetically assume we had a better manager in, and despite having won big trophies had a lean spell for a year or so, do you expect him to be apologetic about it?

Well here's a thing. We SHOULD have a top manager at this club. So what's Wenger doing here, if even his most ardent admirers won't say he's a top manager? He should be gone TODAY if he's not a top manager, shouldn't he? And by manager, just so certain people don't get confused, I mean somebody who also manages the football team.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think most of us think it's ridiculous. I know I do. We all have our own opinions but I think we all agree on one thing. There need to be changes at Arsenal in the way that we operate off the pitch and the way we perform on it.

In other news apparently we're going back with a bigger bid for Lacazette. I'm not that convinced about him to be honest. Whenever I've seen him he's never really impressed me. However my desperation for us to sign a striker has now reached such a level that I want us to sign him.

Same here. A month ago there was a mention of Lacazette and I thought, is that the best we can do? I hope not.

Now it's yes please, maybe he'll be good, maybe he'll do better here, maybe he's the new Henry in disguise. Just get him!

It's no way to carry on, is it? Everyone hoping for some last minute something, anything.

[Letters]

I don't like arrogance
:lol:

[Özim]

:lol:

Why is that funny, it's generally not seen as a good quality? :unsure:

[Niall_Quinn]

:lol:

More fuel on the fire, from a person who wants to see a balanced debate (whatever that is supposed to be given the current huge imbalances at the club).

Whatever people might say about Zim, he's not arrogant. In fact he's the opposite. He has strong opinions but he doesn't get all shitty and pissy about it like most of us do when those opinions are challenged. So that little smilie, what's it designed to achieve? What's your purpose? I've mentioned this before. People go to the trouble of explaining themselves when you demand it. You respond with a, some might say arrogant, one liner or a smilie or a carefully cropped quote.

Some are asking that every thread should not descend into an Wenger debate. That would be a fair request if Wenger hadn't literally inserted himself into every function of this club. How do you argue anything about Arsenal without Wenger's name coming up? It's impossible because he has made it that way. Transfers, youth policy, match day, substitutions, the finances, I bet he even got his crayons out and designed the fucking kit! And we'll see this demonstrated when the Olympics start up. Wenger won't get a mention in those threads - well maybe the odd joke here and there if an athlete collapses just before the finish line. Wenger is everywhere because, Wenger is everywhere. The debate is a reflection of the reality at our club. But okay, fans desperate to see the back of him could tone it down. Keep their desperation in check a little more. But give it up if you think we can talk Arsenal without Wenger being mentioned 99% of the time. Arsenal IS Wenger and vice versa. A very sad reality.

And maybe the "reasonable" posters with their little smilies and sarcastic one-liners could tone it down a little too? Particularly you.

[Letters]

:doh:

But at least we know now it's your comprehension skills that are causing this disconnect. What do you think the 'great for the board' and 'meh for the fans' part of that message is blatantly hinting at?

You do this all the time. You can't find any way to legitimately defend Wenger, because there isn't one, so you trawl back through posts, misinterpret what you find and then try to counter you misinterpretation. Therefore, whatever whoever said in criticism of Wenger is wrong. And now we have a manufactured win for Wenger by implication.

You did the same thing with the 10 points behind by August thing for a large part of the previous season. Bang, bang, bang on that one. Until we eventually did finish 10 points behind... drum roll... Leicester City. Then you went very silent on the matter.

You then top this behaviour off by confusing somebody else into agreeing with you, possibly somebody who hasn't read back on prior exchanges and therefore has to take things at face value. Then you seize on that comment and agree wholeheartedly and the cycle of deception is complete.

Finally, as a cherry for your cake, you nobly call for "balance" in the discussions.

:clap:

So, to summarise, you start with the old classic "call the other poster stupid" gambit.
Then change the subject and rather than responding to what I've written just go on a long ramble about the way I post in general. Throw in a few lies - the 10 points thing you know exactly what I picked you up on, it was never about where we ended up - and you're done.
Nicely side-stepped though. Shame you don't like politicians, you'd make quite a good one.
:tiphat:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well here's a thing. We SHOULD have a top manager at this club. So what's Wenger doing here, if even his most ardent admirers won't say he's a top manager? He should be gone TODAY if he's not a top manager, shouldn't he? And by manager, just so certain people don't get confused, I mean somebody who also manages the football team.


Have I said he has any business being here. I simply accept that there is clearly a limit to how much control I have over the situation.

And figuratively people blaming him for tripping up over a banana skin is as irksome as being called spoilt and petulant for suggesting we can and should be doing better.

[Niall_Quinn]

So, to summarise, you start with the old classic "call the other poster stupid" gambit.
Then change the subject and rather than responding to what I've written just go on a long ramble about the way I post in general. Throw in a few lies - the 10 points thing you know exactly what I picked you up on, it was never about where we ended up - and you're done.
Nicely side-stepped though. Shame you don't like politicians, you'd make quite a good one.
:tiphat:

You were told before it would be the last time I'd go through an explanation of the simple concept you claimed you understood. I'm not calling you stupid. I'm highlighting your stupidity. That's different. If you need the answer to your regurgitation then look to the post before yours and there is your answer. As for methodologies, your little smilie presented as a piss take of Zim tells everyone what they need to know. I'm sure most knew it anyway.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Can I just clarify something, I don't want a balanced debate

When I point out that things seemed to have developed into polemic, it's not a plea it's an observation

When I point out that I can get insulted or patronised, it's not playing the metaphorical violin. On the contrary I enjoy it

[bignev]

Same here. A month ago there was a mention of Lacazette and I thought, is that the best we can do? I hope not.

Now it's yes please, maybe he'll be good, maybe he'll do better here, maybe he's the new Henry in disguise. Just get him!

It's no way to carry on, is it? Everyone hoping for some last minute something, anything.

To be completely fair I've probably only seem him in a 2 or 3 games so not enough to make a judgement. I have at least enough faith in the club to believe they have scouted him and they feel he will do well for us.

The crazy thing is we don't necessarily need a superstar striker like Suarez or Aguero. We need someone who will get in the box and who can finish. My memories (albeit hazy) from last season are that we created quite a lot of chances, we just couldn't finish them. If Lacazette can finish then he'll score loads of goals.

[Niall_Quinn]

Have I said he has any business being here. I simply accept that there is clearly a limit to how much control I have over the situation.

And figuratively people blaming him for tripping up over a banana skin is as irksome as being called spoilt and petulant for suggesting we can and should be doing better.

I think most fans rushed to defence over that stupid station incident, didn't they? In fact both incidents, the cowardly gits trying to physically intimidate him and the idiotic journos who thought an old bloke falling over was hilarious. I don't recall lines like that ever having been crossed on GW.

[Letters]

And maybe the "reasonable" posters with their little smilies and sarcastic one-liners could tone it down a little too? Particularly you.
OK, that is fair comment. I was going to reply to the rest but it only ends up with more boring argument.

I can tone it down if you do.

[Niall_Quinn]

OK, that is fair comment. I was going to reply to the rest but it only ends up with more boring argument.

I can tone it down if you do.

Deal

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think most fans rushed to defence over that stupid station incident, didn't they? In fact both incidents, the cowardly gits trying to physically intimidate him and the idiotic journos who thought an old bloke falling over was hilarious. I don't recall lines like that ever having been crossed on GW.

No but there's always a limit.

But the irritation I have at the lack of measured opinions is what keeps me coming here

A forum like this can only thrive on conflict, not on consensus

It's becoming slightly stale because there really isn't anything new to discuss, this has been a poor transfer window but a) almost all out transfer windows are poor and b) most of us agree that new players wouldn't necessarily breach the gap anyway.

So really it's just a re-tread of the old arguments, but that's ok.

I compare it to PMQs, people complain because it's adversarial cage match nature that is off putting. I submit that it's off putting because people aren't that interested in politics. And people who are love the petty insult throwing and the farmyard braying.

They just think because everything has to be about bettering ourselves we have to pretend we don't like it

Well I didn't come here to better myself.

[Bumble]

This German defender at Valencia, anyone seen him play. is he any good? Will he fit in at Arsenal... or is he likely to be fully fit all the time. Is he a German international to the level that Franny Jeffers was an England International or is there more than that?

Also was Lacazette in the French squad at the Euros? and If so, is someone behind Giroud in the pecking order really an improvement?

[Niall_Quinn]

No but there's always a limit.

But the irritation I have at the lack of measured opinions is what keeps me coming here

A forum like this can only thrive on conflict, not on consensus

It's becoming slightly stale because there really isn't anything new to discuss, this has been a poor transfer window but a) almost all out transfer windows are poor and b) most of us agree that new players wouldn't necessarily breach the gap anyway.

So really it's just a re-tread of the old arguments, but that's ok.

I compare it to PMQs, people complain because it's adversarial cage match nature that is off putting. I submit that it's off putting because people aren't that interested in politics. And people who are love the petty insult throwing and the farmyard braying.

They just think because everything has to be about bettering ourselves we have to pretend we don't like it

Well I didn't come here to better myself.

I understand all that, but what you are saying doesn't necessarily hold true in all cases even here on GW. Occasionally in a season Arsenal will play well and as a result the atmosphere is changed. It's just as much fun to discuss how well we played. But you are right. This doesn't happen nearly enough and what we are left with is a bland repetition which is made even worse by the predictability of it all. And considering we can't jump on the phone to the guilty parties we get satisfaction by dumping frustrations here instead. This transfer window is a classic example. Things are calm enough going in as we consider the options, possibilities, requirements. There's always a degree of cynicism (even the thread title suggests it this year) but there's still a degree of hope even if it's slim. Then the days roll by and the usual picture unfolds and the mood descends into acrimony or indifference. I'd rather it didn't though. It would be much better to be talking about new signings that could actually make a difference to our fortunes. Enjoying the in-fighting caused by the club and it's activities (or lack of activity) isn't as much fun as we might be having if there was some positive news. Instead we get the club claiming penury. It's so brazen it's kind of funny.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I understand all that, but what you are saying doesn't necessarily hold true in all cases even here on GW. Occasionally in a season Arsenal will play well and as a result the atmosphere is changed. It's just as much fun to discuss how well we played. But you are right. This doesn't happen nearly enough and what we are left with is a bland repetition which is made even worse by the predictability of it all. And considering we can't jump on the phone to the guilty parties we get satisfaction by dumping frustrations here instead. This transfer window is a classic example. Things are calm enough going in as we consider the options, possibilities, requirements. There's always a degree of cynicism (even the thread title suggests it this year) but there's still a degree of hope even if it's slim. Then the days roll by and the usual picture unfolds and the mood descends into acrimony or indifference. I'd rather it didn't though. It would be much better to be talking about new signings that could actually make a difference to our fortunes. Enjoying the in-fighting caused by the club and it's activities (or lack of activity) isn't as much fun as we might be having if there was some positive news. Instead we get the club claiming penury. It's so brazen it's kind of funny.

Each to their own, frankly when Arsenal have had a really good result i don't always tend to come on here

I remember in 2014 when everyone was happy when we signed Alexis Sanchez which seemed totally counter-intuitive because he was exactly the kind of player we needed. It was horrible.

[Niall_Quinn]

Each to their own, frankly when Arsenal have had a really good result i don't always tend to come on here

I remember in 2014 when everyone was happy when we signed Alexis Sanchez which seemed totally counter-intuitive because he was exactly the kind of player we needed. It was horrible.

West Ham just launched a one-time kit for £90 for the Juventus match. This is football today. I think you'll have a plentiful supply of conflict to get your teeth into as the game in general swims deeper into the shitter. My theory of unity in success is just that, a theory. I don't think it will ever have any practical applications unless something dramatic happens within the game.

[Power n Glory]

This German defender at Valencia, anyone seen him play. is he any good? Will he fit in at Arsenal... or is he likely to be fully fit all the time. Is he a German international to the level that Franny Jeffers was an England International or is there more than that?

Also was Lacazette in the French squad at the Euros? and If so, is someone behind Giroud in the pecking order really an improvement?

I wouldn't pay too much attention to international selection. France lost the final as the host nation so something went wrong somewhere. Also, thinking back to the amount of times Ian Wright and Andy Cole were snubbed for England, something similar could be happening with Lacazette. Sometimes players get snubbed.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

West Ham just launched a one-time kit for £90 for the Juventus match. This is football today. I think you'll have a plentiful supply of conflict to get your teeth into as the game in general swims deeper into the shitter. My theory of unity in success is just that, a theory. I don't think it will ever have any practical applications unless something dramatic happens within the game.

Consensus and Unity don't make for discussion, emnity and conflict do

[Niall_Quinn]

Rooney is the benchmark example of why it's not wise to judge a player based on International activity, or lack of it.

[Niall_Quinn]

Consensus and Unity don't make for discussion, emnity and conflict do


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdoGVgj1MtY

[Power n Glory]

Rooney is the benchmark example of why it's not wise to judge a player based on International activity, or lack of it.

Oh yeah, that too.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdoGVgj1MtY

I might start calling this place the argument clinic

[Özim]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to international selection. France lost the final as the host nation so something went wrong somewhere. Also, thinking back to the amount of times Ian Wright and Andy Cole were snubbed for England, something similar could be happening with Lacazette. Sometimes players get snubbed.

Agreed, Lacazette should have been picked, he's certainly better than Gignace and Giroud, had they had him they may have won the Euros in the end, Deschamps isnt a very good manager, Lacazettes' goal record is very good.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Maybe, Maybe not. I don't think Giroud or Gignac were responsible for Portugal winning that final. France didn't create a great deal in general.....couldn't break down that defence and their big game players like Pogba and Griezmann didn't perform.

You consider that it was a player released by Swansea for not being good enough that scored the winner in the final.

[Power n Glory]

Agreed, Lacazette should have been picked, he's certainly better than Gignace and Giroud, had they had him they may have won the Euros in the end, Deschamps isnt a very good manager, Lacazettes' goal record is very good.

Top French goal scorer in Ligue 1 doesn't get picked. It's a bit nuts.

[Letters]

I might start calling this place the argument clinic

No you won't.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

No you won't.

I have nothing to say to that

[Niall_Quinn]

Top French goal scorer in Ligue 1 doesn't get picked. It's a bit nuts.

Well we have 3 weeks left to slowly up each bid until it matches Lyon's valuation. Currently we are at least £5mill away if our latest £35mill bid is real. That means 5 million new bids over 21 days = 1 bid approximately every 3 seconds. I hope Lyon have enough fax paper.

[LDG]

When does this shitfest all start up again? Is it Charity Shield this weekend?

This is how much football means these days. Time ago, when I'd be thinking the summer was so long. Now I'm thinking, oh, this crap again.

[Niall_Quinn]

When does this shitfest all start up again? Is it Charity Shield this weekend?

This is how much football means these days. Time ago, when I'd be thinking the summer was so long. Now I'm thinking, oh, this crap again.

Sunday, 7 August, 16:00 - And it's LIVE!

[Özim]

Maybe, Maybe not. I don't think Giroud or Gignac were responsible for Portugal winning that final. France didn't create a great deal in general.....couldn't break down that defence and their big game players like Pogba and Griezmann didn't perform.

You consider that it was a player released by Swansea for not being good enough that scored the winner in the final.

I think Gignac had a great chance that he fluffed didn't he? Having an additional goal threat always helps IMO.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think Gignac had a great chance that he fluffed didn't he? Having an additional goal threat always helps IMO.

The point is better players than him have fluffed better chances than he had, it happens. I'm not saying Lacazette shouldn't have been in the squad, i would have had him and Gamiero in there but whether it would have made a difference if either had been on the pitch that night just over three weeks ago....who can say

Lacazette could be the Andy Cole of French football, terrible at international level. And we know of Deschamps that he won't pick players if he thinks they have an attitude problem, so that could be a factor as well.

The fact is that French side had more than enough on that pitch to beat Portugal, they didn't because the whole team played badly.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Sunday, 7 August, 16:00 - And it's LIVE!

At the Emirates as well, at least away from home because teams tend to attack more it forces us to be a bit more expansive and allows us to score more goals

I can think of two really enjoyable games played at the Emirates in the last 16 months, the home game against liverpool 14/15 (4-1, and i was there) and the 3-0 Manchester United game.

[Letters]

Sunday, 7 August, 16:00 - And it's LIVE!

Didn't watch the last 2 and we were in them, certainly won't be watching this borefest.

[Niall_Quinn]

But this is the plucky champions against the immovable object force thingy Manchester juggernaut Rooney MOTM super heroes who almost qualified for the CL. I can't think of a bigger spectacle in sport, except maybe the Olympic Games which is coincidentally on at the same time and non-coincidentally what I'll be watching.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I might boycott the Rio Olympics because of the failure to ban Russia, which I will find convenient as I don't particularly find Athletics interesting.

[Letters]

I might boycott the Rio Olympics because of the failure to ban Russia, which I will find convenient as I don't particularly find Athletics interesting.

Even if you don't (and you're an idiot if so, no offence like) there are loads of sports in the Olympics.
That's one of the things I love about it. In 2012 I went to see volleyball (alas, not beach), hockey and badminton. When am I ever going to go and see any of those live again? And it was super-fun.

Olympics :bow:

[Niall_Quinn]

I might boycott the Rio Olympics because of the failure to ban Russia, which I will find convenient as I don't particularly find Athletics interesting.

Ban the best national anthem going :doh:

[Niall_Quinn]

So ever since this fighting has stopped there are no posts :-(

Who wants a fight?

[Letters]

Wenger :bow:

How's that? :unsure:

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger :bow:

How's that? :unsure:

Cocksucker

[Niall_Quinn]

PLEASE let something happen at this club :pray:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Even if you don't (and you're an idiot if so, no offence like) there are loads of sports in the Olympics.
That's one of the things I love about it. In 2012 I went to see volleyball (alas, not beach), hockey and badminton. When am I ever going to go and see any of those live again? And it was super-fun.

Olympics :bow:

There are other categories to the Olympics than Athletics? Wow I had no idea

Yes thanks I'm well aware

[alexander]

So The Foxes have signed this Polish winger, movement on Mahrez to us now?

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

No but there's always a limit.

But the irritation I have at the lack of measured opinions is what keeps me coming here

A forum like this can only thrive on conflict, not on consensus

It's becoming slightly stale because there really isn't anything new to discuss, this has been a poor transfer window but a) almost all out transfer windows are poor and b) most of us agree that new players wouldn't necessarily breach the gap anyway.

So really it's just a re-tread of the old arguments, but that's ok.

I compare it to PMQs, people complain because it's adversarial cage match nature that is off putting. I submit that it's off putting because people aren't that interested in politics. And people who are love the petty insult throwing and the farmyard braying.

They just think because everything has to be about bettering ourselves we have to pretend we don't like it

Well I didn't come here to better myself.

:lol: Chortle..... Here, here...

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ban the best national anthem going :doh:

Just play it on Spotify

Anyway Kimigayo is better, it has this proud but dignified and melancholic call for an everlasting unalterable dictatorship

[bignev]

So The Foxes have signed this Polish winger, movement on Mahrez to us now?

I really don't think so :(

Wenger and Gazidis both said one defender and one attacker. I'm assuming they are going for a striker as the attacker. I think Mahrez is a pipe dream.

Imagine if we signed Mustafi, Lacazette/Icardi and Mahrez :pray::pray:

[alexander]

I really don't think so :(

Wenger and Gazidis both said one defender and one attacker. I'm assuming they are going for a striker as the attacker. I think Mahrez is a pipe dream.

Imagine if we signed Mustafi, Lacazette/Icardi and Mahrez :pray::pray:

Well thats annoying/standard.

[Niall_Quinn]

I really don't think so :(

Wenger and Gazidis both said one defender and one attacker. I'm assuming they are going for a striker as the attacker. I think Mahrez is a pipe dream.

Imagine if we signed Mustafi, Lacazette/Icardi and Mahrez :pray::pray:

Imagine there's no heaven, it's easier than imagining us signing Mustafi, Lacazette and Mahrez, if you try.

[Niall_Quinn]

Excellent article on Lacazette:


Alexandre Lacazette has become a very good goal scoring striker who year after year has improved in noticeable ways, whether it be his general link up play or his ability to shoot from better areas. It’s also helped that this rise has coincided with Lyon’s improvement as a club offensively over the same duration span and a growing diversity in their attack. As the team has got better around him, it’s helped spur his evolution as a striker from a inefficient shot taker to a ruthless finisher.

http://statsbomb.com/2016/07/who-is-alexander-lacazette-and-should-arsenal-spend-40m-on-him/

[Munchies]

I know twitter ITKs are full of shit, this guy said Vardy was more or less done before he turned us down, but he did get Holding right a month before.

Apparently Wenger is planning a 'madness' in the transfer window and Lacazette is our 'last resort' striker. Seems to be fairly well followed

https://twitter.com/AFCAMDEN/status/760216675371327488

https://twitter.com/AFCAMDEN/status/760218060875821056

Lots of Griezmann talk..

[Niall_Quinn]

AFCAMDEN :bow:

Everything he says is true!

[The Emirates Gallactico]

I know twitter ITKs are full of shit, this guy said Vardy was more or less done before he turned us down, but he did get Holding right a month before.

Apparently Wenger is planning a 'madness' in the transfer window and Lacazette is our 'last resort' striker. Seems to be fairly well followed

https://twitter.com/AFCAMDEN/status/760216675371327488

https://twitter.com/AFCAMDEN/status/760218060875821056

Lots of Griezmann talk..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek0SgwWmF9w

:unsure::unsure:


I really can't see Greizemann coming here especially after the Euros' he's had which made him the hottest property in Europe.

Maybe Aubeymang ???????

[Kano]

Twatter :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Lyons manager has suggested Lacazette will be sold if we offer enough.

[Power n Glory]

Nothing new there. Last week the story was they wanted £40m. Not sure what's taking us so long.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not sure what's taking us so long.

Yes you are

[Niall_Quinn]

Lyons manager has suggested Lacazette will be sold if we offer enough.

Oh well, I guess he's not coming then.

[Letters]

:lol:

I really can't be arsed keeping up with all the rumours and counter-rumours. Vardy was recently quoted as saying he found the decision to stay at Leicester pretty easy but before the Euros it was 'a done deal'.
I'll wait till they're holding the shirt before I believe anything.

[Marc Overmars]

City sign Leroy Sane for £37m. :lol:

[Power n Glory]

:lol:

I really can't be arsed keeping up with all the rumours and counter-rumours. Vardy was recently quoted as saying he found the decision to stay at Leicester pretty easy but before the Euros it was 'a done deal'.
I'll wait till they're holding the shirt before I believe anything.

It really is bollocks. Some reports were saying he was due to have a medical with us despite not even agreeing to sign a contract with us.

[Letters]

£37m for a kid who has been first choice for one seaosn :wacko:
Don't know anything about him but it's completely potty.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

£37m for a kid who has been first choice for one seaosn :wacko:
Don't know anything about him but it's completely potty.

meh there is precedent, it was pretty much the same story with Martial and Man United last season. The days of getting the next Anelka for 500k is long over

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ek0SgwWmF9w

:unsure::unsure:


I really can't see Greizemann coming here especially after the Euros' he's had which made him the hottest property in Europe.

Maybe Aubeymang ???????

Every Summer Transfer window involving Arsenal is madness, why would this be any different?

[bignev]

Lyons manager has suggested Lacazette will be sold if we offer enough.

He said this over the weekend and Sky/ESPN reported it at the time.

Now suddenly Sky have made it a major story. Guess it's a slow news day.

[Letters]

meh there is precedent, it was pretty much the same story with Martial and Man United last season. The days of getting the next Anelka for 500k is long over

Agreed, but that doesn't mean it isn't completely crackers.

[Power n Glory]

£37m for a kid who has been first choice for one seaosn :wacko:
Don't know anything about him but it's completely potty.

That fee for Lacazette doesn't look that bad in comparison. 3 seasons of scoring 20+ goals. 2014/15 was a better year where he bagged 31.

[Xhaka Can’t]

In the current climate, the fee does seem reasonable. Which has to be scary for our penny pinchers because it makes low-balling Lyon slightly more difficult.

But I'm sure we'll find a way, we nearly always do.

[Özim]

In the current climate, the fee does seem reasonable. Which has to be scary for our penny pinchers because it makes low-balling Lyon slightly more difficult.

But I'm sure we'll find a way, we nearly always do.

If we are interested I don't get why it's taking us so long, this is how it should work:

Club A: We'd like to offer 30 million for Lacazette.
Lyon: No this is too low for a player of his calibre
Club A: We'll offer 35 million then
Lyon: Still too low sorry
Club A: OK 40 million
Lyon: We accept how do you want to structure it
Club A: 30 milllion up front etc etc

This is how it seems to work for us:

Arsenal: We'd like to offer 29 million
Lyon: No this is much too low for a player of his calibre

2 weeks later.....
Arsenal: We'd like to offer 30 million
Lyon: No this is much too low for a player of his calibre

2 weeks later.....
Arsenal: We'd like to offer 31 million
Lyon: No this is much too low for a player of his calibre

1 month later.....
Arsenal: Is Lacazette still available
Lyon: Not officially, but money talks as they say
Arsenal: Interesting

3 weeks later:
Arsenal: Is Lacazette still available
Lyon: We already told you, no not officially
Arsenal: Hmmmmm, we'll get back to you

2 weeks later:
Arsenal: Is Lacazette still available
Lyon: Why are you wasting out time, are you going to make another offer or not?
Arsenal: We'd like to offer 31 million 1 pound
Lyon: Get lost, we're not interested in selling to you

Next day:
Lacazette signs for PSG.

[Özim]

That fee for Lacazette doesn't look that bad in comparison. 3 seasons of scoring 20+ goals. 2014/15 was a better year where he bagged 31.

Yeah he's at a good age, has a very good record, I wouldn't be wasting time and would just offer the money they want like other clubs do. I can see this one dragging on and us missing out in the end.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not that i'm saying Wenger is right and his judgement on players is particularly astute, but the fact that we haven't increased the bid despite almost being invited so to do suggests he doesn't rate him that highly and that the speculation of our interest in him after our original bid comes completely from Lyon.

[Xhaka Can’t]

The problem is that Wenger's rating of players is based upon transfer values that no longer exist within the current climate.

If he is not prepared to adapt and move with the times both off the pitch and on it so as to maximise out potential with the resources we have available to us, he has no business managing this Club.