Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

[Özim]

Of course he cares. The disconnect comes from he deems as sufficient enough to do a successful job - or even what he deems as success now. As far as he is concerned, he is doing what is necessary to be successful. But nearly all of us - on this small fan board - see it differently.

What makes you think he cares, where's the evidence, sure he likes his job but why wouldn't he, he gets paid a packet to do exactly what he wants and has the most stable job in football and doesn't have to answer to anyone, sounds like a perfect job to me?

It's all too easy to say he cares, those are just words, I don't see the evidence though.

[Power n Glory]

The difference is that Hill Wood had Dein who could persuade or encourage Wenger to be more bold, i don't think Gazidis has that same influence or is allowed to exert it.

The difference is whatever you or I think of Hill Wood, for most of the time when he was chairman the manager was accountable and had the appropriate level of support, and the malaise and laissez faire attitude that he seemed to be fond of has been institutionalised under Kroenke.

The probability is that things were better because of Dein, because he was Wenger's boss in more than name only unlike Gazidis. And it is abundantly clear that Gazidis cannot function in that role because of Kroenke.

I disagree. We had seasons where PHW would announce we had a war chest with money to spend and Wenger would get away with signing one experienced player like Silvestre or Vermaelen. Things have actually gotten better and not worse since Gazidis came on board. It;s just now the swindle is more blatant. Days when PHW used to announce a war chest with £60/£70m for Wenger to spend or whatever it was, nobody believed the money was available in the first place because we'd never spend it. Difference today is we know the money is coming in and the rubbish about 600 employees to spend on doesn't wash with the fans anymore.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I disagree. We had seasons where PHW would announce we had a war chest with money to spend and Wenger would get away with signing one experienced player like Silvestre or Vermaelen. Things have actually gotten better and not worse since Gazidis came on board. It;s just now the swindle is more blatant. Days when PHW used to announce a war chest with £60/£70m for Wenger to spend or whatever it was, nobody believed the money was available in the first place because we'd never spend it. Difference today is we know the money is coming in and the rubbish about 600 employees to spend on doesn't wash with the fans anymore.

But then Gazidis comes out with the convoluted hog wash about us not being out to compete with other clubs in order to try and Spin Wenger's incompetence....only for Wenger to decide he didn't want to be protected until he realised that his out of date approach to signing players was getting him nowhere.

As i said previously the system worked better when Dein was there, i just don't believe someone like Dein could exist at Kroenke's Arsenal. And Gazidis is essentially a Kroenke yes man, ordered to mop the floor after Wenger has made a mess.

[Munchies]

Arsenal are in danger of missing out on signing Valencia defender Shkodran Mustafi, according to Guillem Balague.

"Valencia's position is such because they don't think they can find someone to replace him, given the proximity of transfer deadline day. It's a similar stance to the one they have with Barcelona target Paco Alcacer, or at least that's the message they are giving out.

"So, as things stand, neither Mustafi nor Alcacer will be leaving Valencia. I heard Arsene Wenger confirm publicly that Arsenal were in negotiations for Mustafi. That's very rare for him to do so. Perhaps he is trying to apply some pressure on Valencia to sell.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/10547695/shkodran-mustafi-set-to-stay-at-valencia-and-frustrate-arsenal-says-guillem-balague

[Kano]

What makes you think he cares, where's the evidence, sure he likes his job but why wouldn't he, he gets paid a packet to do exactly what he wants and has the most stable job in football and doesn't have to answer to anyone, sounds like a perfect job to me?

It's all too easy to say he cares, those are just words, I don't see the evidence though.

You don't, I do, so who's right?

[Munchies]

Who knew being a tight cunt for 2 weeks and haggling over £5m would lead to Valencia telling us to fuck off?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Arsenal are in danger of missing out on signing Valencia defender Shkodran Mustafi, according to Guillem Balague.

"Valencia's position is such because they don't think they can find someone to replace him, given the proximity of transfer deadline day. It's a similar stance to the one they have with Barcelona target Paco Alcacer, or at least that's the message they are giving out.

"So, as things stand, neither Mustafi nor Alcacer will be leaving Valencia. I heard Arsene Wenger confirm publicly that Arsenal were in negotiations for Mustafi. That's very rare for him to do so. Perhaps he is trying to apply some pressure on Valencia to sell.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/10547695/shkodran-mustafi-set-to-stay-at-valencia-and-frustrate-arsenal-says-guillem-balague

Probably true but usually loathe to think there is anything factual in a paragraph that reads "according to Guillem Balague" who seems to be remarkable in that he's wrong about everything, the law of averages suggests he should be at least right some of the time but he just isn't....impressive.

[Power n Glory]

But then Gazidis comes out with the convoluted hog wash about us not being out to compete with other clubs in order to try and Spin Wenger's incompetence....only for Wenger to decide he didn't want to be protected until he realised that his out of date approach to signing players was getting him nowhere.

As i said previously the system worked better when Dein was there, i just don't believe someone like Dein could exist at Kroenke's Arsenal. And Gazidis is essentially a Kroenke yes man, ordered to mop the floor after Wenger has made a mess.

I don't think Gazidis said that to try and cover for Wenger. It's Wenger that's in the firing line.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't think Gazidis said that to try and cover for Wenger. It's Wenger that's in the firing line.

So it's just a coincidence that he came out with the statement at the time when Wenger's dithering had hit it's peak?

[Özim]

You don't, I do, so who's right?

Well I can provide evidence to as to why I think he doesn't:

1) Blames the fans for the teams problems
2) Never addresses the problem areas
3) Would rather do things his way than the logical way, even if it affects our chances of success
4) Makes all the excuses under the sun as to why he doesn't spend
5) Doesn't think twice about choosing his favourite players over players who are better suited/have performed better
6) Dismisses the fans concerns as media influence/doesn't care about fans being unhappy and pretends we're entertaining despite evidence to the contrary
7) Supports and defends season ticket increases

Where's your evidence to support your opinion?

[selassie]

Of course he cares. The disconnect comes from he deems as sufficient enough to do a successful job - or even what he deems as success now. As far as he is concerned, he is doing what is necessary to be successful. But nearly all of us - on this small fan board - see it differently.

Oh come on Kano, the definition of "caring" can be somewhat subjective with Wenger involved. His definition of caring could be such that if Arsenal makes profit and doesn't get relegated from PL then he is doing a good job. His definition could be that if Arsenal make top 4 then he is doing a good enough job.

The definition of success in a Football club of our stature should be winning or at the very least being as competitive as possible so we can consistently compete for the major honours. Wenger and Gazidis talks about us like we are disadvantaged, we are not, we are just not competitive. It really isn't just this small fan boards that see it differently, honestly...the general consensus seems to be that Arsenal are not competing or doing as much as they can with their resources to be competitive. We are a totally unique football club, one of the only ones out there with the resources we have that flat out refuse to compete.

[Letters]

Look at David Dein's interview in the lead up to his 1000th game.
That will tell you whether he cares how we do better than us internet twats endlessly speculating.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well I can provide evidence to as to why I think he doesn't:

1) Blames the fans for the teams problems
2) Never addresses the problem areas
3) Would rather do things his way than the logical way, even if it affects our chances of success
4) Makes all the excuses under the sun as to why he doesn't spend
5) Doesn't think twice about choosing his favourite players over players who are better suited/have performed better
6) Dismisses the fans concerns as media influence

Where's your evidence to support your opinion?

You realise that none of that evidences that he doesn't care

1) Doesn't want to blame the players
2) May not see the problem areas
3) Evidence of stubborness
4) Covering for incompetence, he acknowledged that he needed to spend couldn't get it done
5) If they are his favourite players suggests he thinks they are the better ones even if he is wrong to believe that
6) Deluded

[Kano]

Well I can provide evidence to as to why I think he doesn't:

1) Blames the fans for the teams problems
2) Never addresses the problem areas
3) Would rather do things his way than the logical way, even if it affects our chances of success
4) Makes all the excuses under the sun as to why he doesn't spend
5) Doesn't think twice about choosing his favourite players over players who are better suited/have performed better
6) Dismisses the fans concerns as media influence/doesn't care about fans being unhappy and pretends we're entertaining despite evidence to the contrary
7) Supports and defends season ticket increases

Where's your evidence to support your opinion?
Let's say you're not missed by the legal world and leave it there

[Özim]

Look at David Dein's interview in the lead up to his 1000th game.
That will tell you whether he cares how we do better than us internet twats endlessly speculating.

Here we go again.....Dein left years ago pal, you always bring up the same rubbish.

LeClown is an arrogant, self absorbed patronising man, no doubt about it, only someone blind can't see through this, he's good at brainwashing though I'll give him that, he's bought himself over 10 years thanks to it.

[Letters]

Let's say you're not missed by the legal world and leave it there

:haha:

[Özim]

Let's say you're not missed by the legal world and leave it there

Thanks for that, proved my point then, it's laughable that people say he cares, there's no evidence to show this, he only stays because football is his life and he makes a pretty good living out of it :good:

[Letters]

To be fair I think idle speculation from people who have never met him is far more relevant and better evidence that the thoughts of someone who worked with him for years and still sees him regularly.

[Özim]

Not really no, Dein is his friend he's hardly going to say anything bad about him, he brought him to Arsenal, think about it.

[Power n Glory]

So it's just a coincidence that he came out with the statement at the time when Wenger's dithering had hit it's peak?

That's my point. That statement wasn't designed to reassure the fans. He's smart enough to know to gauge the temperature with the fans. He's spoken with Le Grove and spoken with Arsenal Fan TV. He saw how bad things were last season so it's not as if he's unaware and he just made a clumsy statement. That looked like gas on the fire.

[selassie]

Look at David Dein's interview in the lead up to his 1000th game.
That will tell you whether he cares how we do better than us internet twats endlessly speculating.

I personally think there is a middle ground with all this caring stuff. I don't think he flat out doesn't care, I think he is only happy winning his way which is more or less impossible, it's a flawed ideology which has failed repeatedly. As a football manager he simply doesn't care enough to win at all costs, if his methods fail he will try them again and again and again. He's not pragmatic, we have all the evidence needed to come to that conclusion.

He can throw water bottles, hold his stomach in pain, blame the fans as much as he wants but he won't be improving the teams fortunes until he addresses his flawed ideology.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Thanks for that, proved my point then, it's laughable that people say he cares, there's no evidence to show this, he only stays because football is his life and he makes a pretty good living out of it :good:

On in other words, nothing that goes against the running narrative i run on this board, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year can be considered.

Your comments are informed by a sense of emotion and frustration, that you seem to think no-one else shares and anyone who doesn't sound off like you do incessantly is somehow brain washed....because only your rather ill thought through conclusions can possibly be correct.

Wenger is past his sell by date and he is making himself look more ridiculous every passing day at the club, let's leave it at that.....without trying to psychoanalyse his motives and re-write history to make it appear like he's always been the same way but too many people were too blind to see it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's my point. That statement wasn't designed to reassure the fans. He's smart enough to know to gauge the temperature with the fans. He's spoken with Le Grove and spoken with Arsenal Fan TV. He saw how bad things were last season so it's not as if he's unaware and he just made a clumsy statement. That looked like gas on the fire.

I don't think he was trying to reassure the fans either, i think he saw Wenger was dithering and that the writing was on the wall for how things would pan out and got defensive in order to cover Wenger and cover himself as someone who is technically his boss.

[Özim]

For me the clubs fans are the people you're trying to please at the end of the day, they're the consumer effectively, the fact he blames/pagtronises and belittles the paying customer (who are the club because without them it wouldn't exist) is a sign he doesn't really care about the club.

Sure he cares about making a profit for his boss and getting his big pay packet at the end of the day, why wouldn't he, he's looking after his own interests and of course his personal relationships with those above him and his players but that's about it IMO.

[Power n Glory]

Here we go again.....Dein left years ago pal, you always bring up the same rubbish.

LeClown is an arrogant, self absorbed patronising man, no doubt about it, only someone blind can't see through this, he's good at brainwashing though I'll give him that, he's bought himself over 10 years thanks to it.

:lol: Letters will use the same examples in each debate.

[Letters]

I personally think there is a middle ground with all this caring stuff. I don't think he flat out doesn't care, I think he is only happy winning his way which is more or less impossible, it's a flawed ideology which has failed repeatedly. As a football manager he simply doesn't care enough to win at all costs, if his methods fail he will try them again and again and again. He's not pragmatic, we have all the evidence needed to come to that conclusion.

He can throw water bottles, hold his stomach in pain, blame the fans as much as he wants but he won't be improving the teams fortunes until he addresses his flawed ideology.

I think there's something in that. He does want to win in the 'right' way and while that is in some ways admirable it needs to be mixed with a bit of pragmatism and we're now perfectly able to spend big without putting ourselves in financial difficulty.
Ozil and Sanchez showed he is willing to spend money but overall we seem hopeless at closing deals.

[Letters]

:lol: Letters will use the same examples in each debate.

We were talking about Wenger's feelings and attitudes. You don't think an interview with a man who worked with him for years and still sees him regularly is relevant to that debate?

[Özim]

On in other words, nothing that goes against the running narrative i run on this board, day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year can be considered.

Your comments are informed by a sense of emotion and frustration, that you seem to think no-one else shares and anyone who doesn't sound off like you do incessantly is somehow brain washed....because only your rather ill thought through conclusions can possibly be correct.

Wenger is past his sell by date and he is making himself look more ridiculous every passing day at the club, let's leave it at that.....without trying to psychoanalyse his motives and re-write history to make it appear like he's always been the same way but too many people were too blind to see it.

I'm questioning the ascertion he cares, I don't see how someone who cares about a football club can be be dishonest/patronising and point the finger at the very people this club is built upon.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think he was trying to reassure the fans either, i think he saw Wenger was dithering and that the writing was on the wall for how things would pan out and got defensive in order to cover Wenger and cover himself as someone who is technically his boss.

Is that covering for Wenger or himself? It's not smart considering the climate and Gazidis is no fool.

[Özim]

:lol: Letters will use the same examples in each debate.

Pretty much, it's that or stats. :lol:

[Özim]

I think there's something in that. He does want to win in the 'right' way and while that is in some ways admirable it needs to be mixed with a bit of pragmatism and we're now perfectly able to spend big without putting ourselves in financial difficulty.
Ozil and Sanchez showed he is willing to spend money but overall we seem hopeless at closing deals.

It's not admirable when you point the finger at everyone else including the fans and absolve yourself or your team of any blame, it's pretty pathetic in fact. There's nothing admirable about the way Wenger is doing things, everytime he talks it's hard not to cringe at the hole his digging himself, if only the journalists challenged him on some of his theories.

[selassie]

I think there's something in that. He does want to win in the 'right' way and while that is in some ways admirable it needs to be mixed with a bit of pragmatism and we're now perfectly able to spend big without putting ourselves in financial difficulty.
Ozil and Sanchez showed he is willing to spend money but overall we seem hopeless at closing deals.

The 'right' way is not admirable anymore, it's damaging for the club in retaining and acquiring top class players. We are now in a position where due to his stubbornness we could lose both Ozil and Sanchez, it makes no sense for Wenger to be like this because it's causing the club problems.

I can't claim to know the EXACT reason to why we can't close deals...I've had various debates with Kano about this and I still stand by my opinion that Wenger just dithers and haggles (he is known for it), it seems to be happening with the Mustafi deal now...a deal we should have completed at the start of the summer IMO or a deal for a CB of the same standard.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Is that covering for Wenger or himself? It's not smart considering the climate and Gazidis is no fool.

Gazidis has done some stupid things in the past, let's not forget this is the man who tried to approach a Russian Telecom company for potential sponsorship deal without bothering to research where upon he'd have discovered that Alisher Usmanov was a major shareholder for it. Given the relations between the club and Usmanov at the time it was a major PR faux pas.

[Power n Glory]

We were talking about Wenger's feelings and attitudes. You don't think an interview with a man who worked with him for years and still sees him regularly is relevant to that debate?

The whole debate is irrelevant. Cares/doesn’t care…..he’s not the right man for the job. That’s all it boils down to. It's a poor debate and no idea why it keeps going down this route. Who cares what he feels.

[Özim]

The 'right' way is not admirable anymore, it's damaging for the club in retaining and acquiring top class players. We are now in a position where due to his stubbornness we could lose both Ozil and Sanchez, it makes no sense for Wenger to be like this because it's causing the club problems.

Spot on, nothing admirable about it, he's actually damaging the club as you say, the fans are unhappy and saying as much, there's a bad atmosphere, the results aren't good enough and people who once loved this club are now beginning to be indifferent about it, trouble is he really doesn't care.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The whole debate is irrelevant. Cares/doesn’t care…..he’s not the right man for the job. That’s all it boils down to. It's a poor debate and no idea why it keeps going down this route. Who cares what he feels.

There I do agree with you

[Power n Glory]

Gazidis has done some stupid things in the past, let's not forget this is the man who tried to approach a Russian Telecom company for potential sponsorship deal without bothering to research where upon he'd have discovered that Alisher Usmanov was a major shareholder for it. Given the relations between the club and Usmanov at the time it was a major PR faux pas.

That's not relevant to how he handles the relationship between the fans and club.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's not relevant to how he handles the relationship between the fans and club.

I don't think that comment was directed at the fans at all, it was directed at the media who do like to make a circus of the summer transfer activities of premier league clubs, i think he could see that once again Wenger was dithering and would give him an out by saying that the club didn't have the means to spend wantonly.

Which is exactly the same narrative Wenger has adopted now he's realised he has failed.

[Letters]

The 'right' way is not admirable anymore, it's damaging for the club in retaining and acquiring top class players. We are now in a position where due to his stubbornness we could lose both Ozil and Sanchez, it makes no sense for Wenger to be like this because it's causing the club problems.

I can't claim to know the EXACT reason to why we can't close deals...I've had various debates with Kano about this and I still stand by my opinion that Wenger just dithers and haggles (he is known for it), it seems to be happening with the Mustafi deal now...a deal we should have completed at the start of the summer IMO or a deal for a CB of the same standard.

Agreed, but he shouldn't be in the position to haggle or close deals, that shouldn't be his responsibility. A big problem with the club is that the board have let him take over far too many areas of things.
He needs a David Dein figure to help out with things like this.

[Letters]

I think PnG should just tell us what we are and aren't allowed to discuss on here. It would stop us all wasting our time.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think that comment was directed at the fans at all, it was directed at the media who do like to make a circus of the summer transfer activities of premier league clubs, i think he could see that once again Wenger was dithering and would give him an out by saying that the club didn't have the means to spend wantonly.

Which is exactly the same narrative Wenger has adopted now he's realised he has failed.

He handles the PR well. I don't think he's that naive.

[radford78]

This made me laugh!!!

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj0oJ2SqNXOAhVCFpQKHexUDJgQFggbMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.urbandictionary.com%2Fdefine. php%3Fterm%3DWenger&usg=AFQjCNHofMmmunau6iF4g5EQLR7n9EfZ3Q

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He handles the PR well. I don't think he's that naive.

And I've given you an example of when he doesn't always get the PR right.

Although Wenger is a lightning rod for the club, hanging him out to dry too often would mean he leaves the club and the club don't want that.

[Letters]

This made me laugh!!!

https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj0oJ2SqNXOAhVCFpQKHexUDJgQFggbMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.urbandictionary.com%2Fdefine. php%3Fterm%3DWenger&usg=AFQjCNHofMmmunau6iF4g5EQLR7n9EfZ3Q

On similar lines

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/wenger-becomes-a-verb-20150904101720

[Power n Glory]

And I've given you an example of when he doesn't always get the PR right.

Although Wenger is a lightning rod for the club, hanging him out to dry too often would mean he leaves the club and the club don't want that.

What example?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

What example?

The PR Cock up over the Russian Telecom company. Trying to do a deal with a company intertwined with someone who is being considered persona non grata by the hierarchy smacks of PR incompetence.

The point is he has form for making gaffes, although somewhat irrelevant as I believe this was a calculated statement to protect Wenger and would have worked if Wenger hadn't contradicted him.

[radford78]

On similar lines

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/wenger-becomes-a-verb-20150904101720

Comedy gold Letters. It is a pity it is too close to the truth though eh!!!

[Power n Glory]

The PR Cock up over the Russian Telecom company. Trying to do a deal with a company intertwined with someone who is being considered persona non grata by the hierarchy smacks of PR incompetence.

The point is he has form for making gaffes, although somewhat irrelevant as I believe this was a calculated statement to protect Wenger and would have worked if Wenger hadn't contradicted him.

That's a bad business decision. That's not an example of him handling PR.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's a bad business decision. That's not an example of him handling PR.

No it's bad PR as well, because it makes the club look daft in that it's chief executive doesn't do his research properly. Either way it was an example of incompetence which suggests that Gazidis is capable of it.

[Power n Glory]

No it's bad PR as well, because it makes the club look daft in that it's chief executive doesn't do his research properly. Either way it was an example of incompetence which suggests that Gazidis is capable of it.

I didn't say it wasn't bad PR for the club. But that's not an example of Gazidis handling PR badly. There is a difference.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I didn't say it wasn't bad PR for the club. But that's not an example of Gazidis handling PR badly. There is a difference.

The fact that he made the statement in the first place regardless of his motivations would rather suggest the opposite

Don't get me wrong I don't think the guy is stupid either, but look at the precise things he says basically says the club cannot compete with other clubs in the sense that they can't afford to spend money and make bad moves implying other clubs can spend more heedlessly. I don't believe for a second that's not him saying well Arsene is cautious because he knows whilst the club can spend money, it cannot waste money.

[Niall_Quinn]

Who gives a shit if he cares? The only important thing is that he gets the fuck out. This club cannot move while he is here. It may well not be able to move when he's gone either, but at least one impediment will be gone. One thing at a time.

[Power n Glory]

The fact that he made the statement in the first place regardless of his motivations would rather suggest the opposite

Don't get me wrong I don't think the guy is stupid either, but look at the precise things he says basically says the club cannot compete with other clubs in the sense that they can't afford to spend money and make bad moves implying other clubs can spend more heedlessly. I don't believe for a second that's not him saying well Arsene is cautious because he knows whilst the club can spend money, it cannot waste money.

You're losing track of the conversation and why I believe that statement wasn't designed to cover for Wenger.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You're losing track of the conversation and why I believe that statement wasn't designed to cover for Wenger.

The only reason you gave is that it wouldn't be smart, where as I think as I've said he's a useful lightning rod but if they throw him under the bus too often he will just walk away and they don't want that. Or at least Kroenke doesn't, and Gazidis is there to do Kroenkes bidding essentially.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Holding really tall or is Koscielny small......

[Globalgunner]

He is quite tall as Wenger has been buying small defenders for years now. Kos is probably 5`11" or slighty taller. The boy has promise, so did Chambers before Wenger got his hands on him. I hear Bielik is also quite good, He was supposed to be a top notch CM when we bought him, so who knows what lies in store for him now.

[Özim]

Who gives a shit if he cares? The only important thing is that he gets the fuck out. This club cannot move while he is here. It may well not be able to move when he's gone either, but at least one impediment will be gone. One thing at a time.

Very true, whether he cares or not doesn't matter in the least (Letters always starts his post with the same he cares BS), if he didn't but built a good team I wouldn't give a sh*t, noone would, the fact is he's a patronising, arrogant man who can't build a good enough team to compete, whether is be due to his incompetence or stubborness doesn't matter, it's a fact and like you said he needs to f*ck off because he's ruining this club.

[Munchies]

Mustafi on the bench for Valencia

Seems it won't happen then :coffee:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Him being on the bench makes it more likely doesn't it?

Without being likely at all.

I am conflicted to be honest, you shouldn't have to spend £30 million just to buy the centre back you want but then the other part of me just thinks, suck it up - it's the way it is.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Fucking hell......Valencia asking for up to 50 mil for Mustafi and even WBA wanting 25 for Evans.....we are the laughing stock of the football world! Even though the figures are made up and will not what the players will (if) go for, clubs know they have is by the balls and that is what is so shit about it.

Bloody Citeh are close to signing another player (in a position they don't have to urgently go for) and we are still pissing around for a player in a position we most definitely need to find a body for and that is not even starting to talk about our striker situation!!!

Bring no one in but ship Campbell out maybe Holding can play on the wing too

I think the Mustafi deal will go through but it has taken way too fuc&ing long......we are crap at transfers, shit get Evans in and add Saido then 25-30 mil is an ok price

And because we are so crap at getting deals done....Bony is obviously available so get him......Arsenal quality? Define that please Wenger because we are at scrapping the barrel time! Wenger, tell the truth you are going to do what you did last season, aren't you? Try to win it all with Giroud....even if you do bring in Lacazette or someone, don't you understand it has to be before the bloody season starts.....UTD, Citeh and Chavs 6 pts from two games is proof enough

[Power n Glory]

No way are we paying £50m for a defender when Wenger rates Holding so highly. How long until Gabriel and Merts are back fit? I think he'll risk it.

[Marc Overmars]

We're going to be ripped off with whoever we want to buy at this stage anyway. Everyone knows we're desperate because of the unrest amongst the fanbase. Plus for the selling club it's going to be tough to get a replacement in with a week to go.

Pay up and get on with it or move on, there's no point dithering.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Mustafi on the bench for Valencia

Seems it won't happen then :coffee:

I want us to sign a striker and a defender, but if had to prioritise one it would be a striker

plus Mustafi started pretty much every game for Valencia last season, so there is something going on if he's only on the bench tonight

[Marc Overmars]

I think we'll get him. Mainly because I doubt we're going to sign a striker so we might as well use the cash for a CB.

The search for the mythical top striker can resume next year. :sleep:

[Niall_Quinn]

Fucking hell......Valencia asking for up to 50 mil for Mustafi and even WBA wanting 25 for Evans.....we are the laughing stock of the football world! Even though the figures are made up and will not what the players will (if) go for, clubs know they have is by the balls and that is what is so shit about it.

Bloody Citeh are close to signing another player (in a position they don't have to urgently go for) and we are still pissing around for a player in a position we most definitely need to find a body for and that is not even starting to talk about our striker situation!!!

Bring no one in but ship Campbell out maybe Holding can play on the wing too

I think the Mustafi deal will go through but it has taken way too fuc&ing long......we are crap at transfers, shit get Evans in and add Saido then 25-30 mil is an ok price

And because we are so crap at getting deals done....Bony is obviously available so get him......Arsenal quality? Define that please Wenger because we are at scrapping the barrel time! Wenger, tell the truth you are going to do what you did last season, aren't you? Try to win it all with Giroud....even if you do bring in Lacazette or someone, don't you understand it has to be before the bloody season starts.....UTD, Citeh and Chavs 6 pts from two games is proof enough

Seems to me you have been influenced by the media.

[Niall_Quinn]

Get Stan to do the deals. He's proved he can move quickly when a ranch comes onto the market.

[Letters]

Who gives a shit if he cares?
Well, if I thought (as some now do) that he's only interested in making money for the board and couldn't give a monkeys about how we do on the pitch then it would significantly change my opinion of him, so it matters in terms of how he should be viewed.
None of us really know of course but Dein's thoughts on him give more insight than any of us have.

[Kano]

Well, if I thought (as some now do) that he's only interested in making money for the board and couldn't give a monkeys about how we do on the pitch then it would significantly change my opinion of him, so it matters in terms of how he should be viewed.
None of us really know of course but Dein's thoughts on him give more insight than any of us have.

You clearly haven't read the evidence.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Well, if I thought (as some now do) that he's only interested in making money for the board and couldn't give a monkeys about how we do on the pitch then it would significantly change my opinion of him, so it matters in terms of how he should be viewed.
None of us really know of course but Dein's thoughts on him give more insight than any of us have.


It is totally irrelevant, the only thing that is relevant is whether he does a good job or not

Let's be fair if someone was winning major trophies for us, would we care that his favourite pastime was drowning puppies and kittens....because he liked to drain the life out of something pure and innocent to keep himself focused?

Wenger could be on his way to finishing the job Yitshak Rabin was prevented from finishing and bringing peace to the Middle East and it wouldn't change the fact he's currently doing a lousy job.

[Munchies]

8 days to go then

atleast Ramsey got a new hair do again

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqfhVG4WEAAL_B_.jpg

https://www.instagram.com/aaronramsey/

anything else happen? :coffee:

[Kano]

Is this haircut shit his way of coming out of the closet?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Is this haircut shit his way of coming out of the closet?

he's got a kid hasn't he?....not that, that means anything....other than the fact that the kid has a bell end for a dad

[Marc Overmars]

Few of the rags saying West Brom value Evans at £25m. :lol:

[Munchies]

Few of the rags saying West Brom value Evans at £25m. :lol:

Master of Economics :bow:

Paying more to get a deal done earlier > Paying way over the top when teams know you're desperate

Fucking clown. Every team will quote a high fee now.

[Letters]

It is totally irrelevant, the only thing that is relevant is whether he does a good job or not.
It's relevant to how he's perceived and how he should be perceived.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's relevant to how he's perceived and how he should be perceived.

But that in itself is not relevant, the only relevant thing is, is he doing a good job and he isn't

[Letters]

OK. I think we all agree that. So let's just shut up shop then if all we can discuss is whether he's doing a good job because there's not much scope for debate about that.

[Power n Glory]

OK. I think we all agree that. So let's just shut up shop then if all we can discuss is whether he's doing a good job because there's not much scope for debate about that.

:lol: You have no interest in discussing anything else but Wenger. Every time we discuss Wenger you have the same stats and examples and then it resorts to this emotional stuff about how he's perceived by fans, the level of criticism being OT....someone responds and then around you go again with the same stats and examples. :rolleyes:

[AFC Leveller]

Mustafi no leaving, according to Valencia. Evans at 25 mill is money down the toilet.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

OK. I think we all agree that. So let's just shut up shop then if all we can discuss is whether he's doing a good job because there's not much scope for debate about that.

People can discuss it as much as they like, lets just not pretend it's relevant to anything

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

:lol: You have no interest in discussing anything else but Wenger. Every time we discuss Wenger you have the same stats and examples and then it resorts to this emotional stuff about how he's perceived by fans, the level of criticism being OT....someone responds and then around you go again with the same stats and examples. :rolleyes:

He really isn't that interesting a person to discuss, I remember when we did Coke together....it was a lot like the Family Guy Karl Malden sketch....surreal....he snorted twice as much as me at any one time. He just sat there making an irritating clicking noise with his tongue before repeating "Bernard Tapie is a cunt" - yeah that's right, he doesn't let things go.

[Letters]

People can discuss it as much as they like, lets just not pretend it's relevant to anything

I just told you what it's relevant to :lol:

But of course it doesn't matter in the sense of it affecting how we're doing.

[Letters]

:lol: You have no interest in discussing anything else but Wenger. Every time we discuss Wenger you have the same stats and examples and then it resorts to this emotional stuff about how he's perceived by fans, the level of criticism being OT....someone responds and then around you go again with the same stats and examples. :rolleyes:

Lots of other do the same thing, repeating the same tired points over and over again.
The difference is you don't pick them up on it because you have this little vendetta against me :lol:

:console:

[Özim]

OK. I think we all agree that. So let's just shut up shop then if all we can discuss is whether he's doing a good job because there's not much scope for debate about that.

Thanks for coming :good:

[Özim]

Lots of other do the same thing, repeating the same tired points over and over again.
The difference is you don't pick them up on it because you have this little vendetta against me :lol:

:console:

Vendetta :lol: he just doesn't agree with your opinion and probably doesn't like the way your act as if you're not defending Wenger when you clearly are.

[Power n Glory]

Lots of other do the same thing, repeating the same tired points over and over again.
The difference is you don't pick them up on it because you have this little vendetta against me :lol:

:console:

So you admit you're in that same bracket! :lol:

What separates you from most is you'll use the same stats and same examples. Doing a Moyes, that Dein quote, we're not that bad, Clough, the 2 FA Cups,...:lol: That's what makes the debates so boring. You're taking in any new information even it's based around the same topic.

[selassie]

Who gives a shit if he cares? The only important thing is that he gets the fuck out. This club cannot move while he is here. It may well not be able to move when he's gone either, but at least one impediment will be gone. One thing at a time.

:gp:

[selassie]

Few of the rags saying West Brom value Evans at £25m. :lol:

Pretty relieved, at that price we'll walk away. 😊

[selassie]

Is this haircut shit his way of coming out of the closet?

Bend it like Beckham ;)

No idea who Aaron is getting his fashion tips off? Gok Wan maybe?!

[Niall_Quinn]

Well, if I thought (as some now do) that he's only interested in making money for the board and couldn't give a monkeys about how we do on the pitch then it would significantly change my opinion of him, so it matters in terms of how he should be viewed.
None of us really know of course but Dein's thoughts on him give more insight than any of us have.

A retard might or might not care if he shits his pants. What is the priority, worrying about the degree to which the retard cares, or cleaning up the shit? It's time to clean the shit out, enough time has passed. All analysis of the situation has become meaningless. The talk has become an excuse to avoid the job of rolling up sleeves and reaching for the rubber gloves and the Andrex.

[Niall_Quinn]

OK. I think we all agree that. So let's just shut up shop then if all we can discuss is whether he's doing a good job because there's not much scope for debate about that.

There is an alternative. We could take the evidence of ten years and reach a conclusion. Conclusions have been reached on far less evidence gathered over a much shorter time frame.

For instance, you might say that over the last 3 years:

FA Cup, FA Cup, 2nd in the PL.

I would counter:

Failed to compete for the PL and destroyed in the CL, Failed to compete for the PL and destroyed in the CL, Failed to compete for the PL and destroyed in the CL.

I would add to that:

Failed to properly prepare the team to compete, Failed to properly prepare the team to compete, Failed to properly prepare the team to compete.

It all depends what people think the standard should be at one of the richest and best supported clubs in the world.

In truth, it is simply incredible that Wenger has opted (because it has been his choice) to go into yet another season having failed to prepare the team. This alone is enough to suggest he is unsuitable for the job, whether he cares or not. Indeed it would be better if he didn't care, because that at least could explain his failure to do his job. But if we say he cares, then we must also conclude he is incompetent. He has tried to do his job, but he cannot. He is not capable. He is incompetent.

The question then, after all this time should we permit an incompetent man to continue to manage the team? Note that incompetent does not mean he's stupid or greedy or whatever else, it simply means he is not capable of doing the job that is required. There is plenty of evidence to confirm this conclusion. The only area of debate that remains is why some fans continue to imagine he is not incompetent, despite all the evidence.

Will it be this year when fans accept what is under their noses, or next year, or the year after? How long?

[Kano]

People can discuss it as much as they like, lets just not pretend it's relevant to anything

I think the two go hand in hand. If you are doing well in life, it is mostly because you care enough to do well. Unless you're one lucky bugger, which is rarely the case. Although the caveat is of course, there are distinctions between what one person views as 'doing well' against someone else. Arsenal are doing 'well', any team that finishes in top few percent of a competition can be regarded as performing 'well'. But the difference between that and tangible success is obviously the difference here.

That said, if someone like Maureen came onboard I couldn't abide supporting anything led by him. It wouldn't matter how many trophies or how successful the club was doing under him. I wouldn't be able to ignore the fact he gives handjobs to the Devil and drinks the blood of baby animals every night.

[Ralpheroo72]

Our current manager is incapable. His stubborn attitude to recruitment, his failure to compete in Europe and EPL every season is testament to that. Anyone who thinks we are closer to winning the league this season, has only started watching football this morning.

[Kano]

I haven't seen or talked to anyone that thinks we are.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I haven't seen or talked to anyone that thinks we are.

To be fair though there are a lot of fans who think we are not competing because it's not possible, if the great Arsene Wenger can't compete how can we.
Leicester is then an outlier and the competing clubs all had a bad season, but we are then lumped in with the competing clubs because we had a bollocks season as well.
I think that we can compete with a better manager but only if Kroenke unties Gazidis' hands and doesn't give a manager carte Blanche to operate his own fiefdom where he is accountable to no one.

[Kano]

To be fair though there are a lot of fans who think we are not competing because it's not possible, if the great Arsene Wenger can't compete how can we.
Leicester is then an outlier and the competing clubs all had a bad season, but we are then lumped in with the competing clubs because we had a bollocks season as well.
I think that we can compete with a better manager but only if Kroenke unties Gazidis' hands and doesn't give a manager carte Blanche to operate his own fiefdom where he is accountable to no one.
Wenger will probably move upstairs so there is that...

[selassie]

Wenger will probably move upstairs so there is that...

If that happens we're screwed, Wenger will just handpick a puppet to manage the team and dictate the policy from upstairs.

[Kano]

If that happens we're screwed, Wenger will just handpick a puppet to manage the team and dictate the policy from upstairs.

I just think Kroenke and Gazidis rely on Wenger for so much when it comes to football knowledge that why would they look elsewhere when they can just bring him in even closer to the operational side of things once the management gig is up? Hopefully Wenger looks at the bigger picture in terms of how that would affect the next manager and decide to take an ambassadorial role instead.

[Özim]

I think the two go hand in hand. If you are doing well in life, it is mostly because you care enough to do well. Unless you're one lucky bugger, which is rarely the case. Although the caveat is of course, there are distinctions between what one person views as 'doing well' against someone else. Arsenal are doing 'well', any team that finishes in top few percent of a competition can be regarded as performing 'well'. But the difference between that and tangible success is obviously the difference here.

That said, if someone like Maureen came onboard I couldn't abide supporting anything led by him. It wouldn't matter how many trophies or how successful the club was doing under him. I wouldn't be able to ignore the fact he gives handjobs to the Devil and drinks the blood of baby animals every night.

That's not necessarily the case, you don't need to care about something to do a good job, if you're motivated by self gratification doing a good job also means increased rewards for you, there's plenty of examples of people who don't give a toss about the company they work for but make a shedload and thus do a good job in the eyes of their employer. Wenger fits into that category, he makes his employers richer, so they're happy, in return he gets richer and gets no pressure from them and gets to fill his life by using Arsenal as his little plaything he can do what he wants with.

I feel the same about Wenger and I think quite a few people do now, hence the lack of interest these days, it's very hard to support his current regime, it's a dictatorship led by a man who only cares about his own opinion, he compounds it by rubbing it in in public self indulgent speeches and by refusing to do anything that might make the paying customer happy.

Wenger isn't so different to Mourinho, he's just much more subtle with his digs and more controlled with his rants, whereas Mourinho is up front about what he thinks, main difference is Mourinho wins.

[Özim]

I just think Kroenke and Gazidis rely on Wenger for so much when it comes to football knowledge that why would they look elsewhere when they can just bring him in even closer to the operational side of things once the management gig is up? Hopefully Wenger looks at the bigger picture in terms of how that would affect the next manager and decide to take an ambassadorial role instead.

:lol: Not a chance he's about as narrowminded and stubborn as they come, he'll help them select another guy who wants to play tippy, tappy football and who doesn't want to spend. This would be the absolutely worst scenario.

[Kano]

That's not necessarily the case, you don't need to care about something to do a good job, if you're motivated by self gratification doing a good job also means increased rewards for you, there's plenty of examples of people who don't give a toss about the company they work for but make a shedload and thus do a good job in the eyes of their employer. Wenger fits into that category, he makes his employers richer, so they're happy, in return he gets richer and gets no pressure from them and gets to fill his life by using Arsenal as his little plaything he can do what he wants with.

I feel the same about Wenger and I think quite a few people do now, hence the lack of interest these days, it's very hard to support his current regime, it's a dictatorship led by a man who only cares about his own opinion, he compounds it by rubbing it in in public self indulgent speeches and by refusing to do anything that might make the paying customer happy.

Wenger isn't so different to Mourinho, he's just much more subtle with his digs and more controlled with his rants, whereas Mourinho is up front about what he thinks, main difference is Mourinho wins.

There's a massive difference between having pride in your work and caring about your company and liking your job. Most people fall into the former category.

It's quite interesting that you said a few days ago you couldn't care less how much he earns yet every single post of yours alludes to his salary. Must be coincidence. Or more evidence, I'm not sure.

I don't support Wenger, I support Arsenal, hence why I'm honest enough to say I still pay close attention to what my club. It isn't true that people aren't paying as close attention in the main. There are examples on this board for example. You've said it several times but pop up in match threads commenting on the game and other PL matches. There's only one man who could change that for me but thankfully that cuntball Maureen will never be in charge of my club.

[Özim]

There's a massive difference between having pride in your work and caring about your company and liking your job. Most people fall into the former category.

It's quite interesting that you said a few days ago you couldn't care less how much he earns yet every single post of yours alludes to his salary. Must be coincidence. Or more evidence, I'm not sure.

I don't support Wenger, I support Arsenal, hence why I'm honest enough to say I still pay close attention to what my club. It isn't true that people aren't paying as close attention in the main. There are examples on this board for example. You've said it several times but pop up in match threads commenting on the game and other PL matches. There's only one man who could change that for me but thankfully that cuntball Maureen will never be in charge of my club.

Well your post is questioning the ascertion he cares about the club, not his job, so my point stands about caring about your job to the extent that it brings rewards if you do it well (according to your employers).

I don't care, however I do care about the fact he's doing a sh*t job and getting rewarded so handsomely for it, it's like a pat on the back saying well done.

Supporting Arsenal in the current climate surely would mean you don't support Wenger, because from what I and most people can see he's destroying the club at the moment in every way but financially. I post on here because I actually get more enjoyment from that than watching the match and the reason for that is one Monsieur Wenger and his horrible repetitive brand of football, ridiculous resistance to change and pig headedness when it comes to accepting responsibility. Watching Arsenal is no longer enjoyable for me, it was years ago, but not today, today, it's dull, unexciting and predictable, there's nothing entertaining about it, despite what Wenger thinks.

I'd take Mourinho over Wenger anyday simply because his focus is football, not the finances, and important distinction between a football manager and an accountant. The man has forgotten what management is and now makes it his duty to keep his hands on the purse strings and make sure not too much is spent so that at the end of the season his employers can shake his hand, thank him for another profitable season and maybe pat him on the back (another pay rise), that's satisfaction for him, not succeeding on the pitch and that's completely wrong, hence the reason quite a large percentage of people now can't stand him (not just here either).

[selassie]

I just think Kroenke and Gazidis rely on Wenger for so much when it comes to football knowledge that why would they look elsewhere when they can just bring him in even closer to the operational side of things once the management gig is up? Hopefully Wenger looks at the bigger picture in terms of how that would affect the next manager and decide to take an ambassadorial role instead.

I agree Kano, I think Wenger will be fully involved in hiring out the new manager and overseeing the transition, or at least I think Kroenke and his cronies will want that.

Yeah would hope he would take an ambassadorial type role too, like Fergie at United.

[Niall_Quinn]

He'll get a shitload of offers when (if) he leaves. Hopefully one of them will be too good to turn down. We need him and his influence out of the club, and if that means Kroenke and Co find themselves underwater then tough shit. Start swimming. BECAUSE of what Wenger has done, this club will probably have to self destruct before it can rebuild. Any hint of continuity or stability simply means the board wants a smooth transition from one state to the same state, nothing will change.

[AFC Leveller]

I agree Kano, I think Wenger will be fully involved in hiring out the new manager and overseeing the transition, or at least I think Kroenke and his cronies will want that.

Yeah would hope he would take an ambassadorial type role too, like Fergie at United.

Wenger is an employer's dream, he gets the job done, works all the time and doesnt waste any of the money on transfers (he does waste it on average players' wages though).

[Power n Glory]

I'm not so sure. When Gazidis appointed Jonker as Youth Academy Manager, Wenger wasn't part of the selection process.

One of our former coaches that's biter about being overlooked for the job said the following.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/nov/27/terry-burton-arsenal-chelsea-youth-development

Burton was bitterly disappointed with that decision and in January told Arsène Wenger – who had informed him that he played no part in the selection process –

“I went to see Arsène, and Arsène said he’d had nothing to do with it – he hadn’t signed his contract at that time. I told Arsène in the January that I would leave in the summer. He said: ‘Don’t go, I’d like you to stay’. But I didn’t want to work under someone else. I was prepared to do it because it was Liam Brady, but not someone brought in from outside.”



Maybe Wenger won't pick his own successor.

[Power n Glory]

This is interesting.

An interview with Jonker.

http://news.arseblog.com/2014/10/jonker-arsenal-scouting-must-be-restructured/



In an interview with Dutch football magazine Voetbal International [paywalled], published in September, Andries Jonker has claimed that Arsenal must overhaul their entire scouting network if they are to turn the club’s Academy into the best in the world.

The Dutchman was appointed head of the Academy this summer and has wasted no time auditing the entire set-up and reshuffling personnel recruiting compatriots Frans de Kat and Jan van Loon to take over the under-18 and under-16 squads.

Speaking passionately about Arsenal’s youth project the former Bayern Munich and Barcelona coach outlined the changes he thinks the Gunners must make.

“Arsenal want more talented players to come through, because that has been lacking. They want me to develop the players from the academy much better than it was done before.

“At this moment, considering the investments the club have made, players have hardly been developed properly. This is why they wanted me, a man who can guide the coaches and who can influence the other coaches.

“Ivan Gazidis wants Arsenal to be the best academy in the world. He realises that will cost money and will take time, but that is his ambition.

“The scouting must be restructured all over again. It needs to be brought to a level so that we can bring in the absolute best talents from abroad and from England at an age that Wenger can immediately work with them.

“My chief scout at the academy, Steve Morrow, came and asked me what kind of players I wanted him to look for. So I said, the best player I have worked on, Xavi.

Revealing Arsene Wenger tried to bring him to Arsenal after Euro 2012 (he instead became Felix Magath’s assistant at Wolfsburg) Jonker opened up on how his relationship with the Frenchman has strengthened thanks to a mutual respect for technically astute football.

“Almost every day Wenger and I go through a number of things. He is approachable, but I do have to show him what we are doing. We must not go behind his back.

“It is important that Wenger and I work closely together. What I do see is that everybody at the club has the feeling that they need to have the green light from Wenger before they do anything. But maybe that is not the case.

“I have a very good feeling about the way Wenger and I are working together. We both think the technical side of the game is very important.

“But there are a lot of things in the academy which can be improved or should be done different.”

In a separate interview, also appearing in the Dutch press, Jonker made clear that there’s no point bothering with a youth academy if you don’t have a manager who wants to promote homegrown talent. Interestingly he also confirmed the club have assured him that this is a long-term ambition that’ll long outlast Arsene Wenger.

“I think it is very important to pay attention to youth, that’s why it’s good that we’ve a manager like Arsene.

“If you have a first team coach who doesn’t believe in young player you have to question why you even have a youth academy. I’m glad that he’s extended his contract but the club have told me that when or if he leaves, that a similar kind of manager will be appointed. I also found this important.”

On the issue of restructuring the scouting network it appears Jonker has already started putting plans in place. Shaun O’Connor (the man who discovered Jack Wilshere) has already returned to the Emirates after a spell at Brentford and former Reading and Leeds United boss (and ex-Gooner) Brian McDermott is also thought to have been signed up to work with Steve Rowley.

Some interesting points. Wenger was aware of Jonker before Gazidis brought him over and wanted to sign him up himself. I guess that makes things makes sense. Also the the part about Wenger giving the green light makes a lot of sense. The Henry coaching decision now seems more clear.

[Kano]

Well your post is questioning the ascertion he cares about the club, not his job, so my point stands about caring about your job to the extent that it brings rewards if you do it well (according to your employers).
Nope that's your interpretation for some reason. The post that you replied to spoke about people caring to do well. Which is the majority of people. People who may not like their work or the company that employs them but realise that in order to progress, they need to have some pride in their work to do so. My post and posts about Wenger's care and attention have been primarily about his attention towards his work and day to day duties. I believe he still wants to do his best. But that best just isn't good enough anymore to achieve success as us fans define it. But on the topic of do I think he cares about the club? Yes I do. Just because his methods and ideas don't sit with mine it doesn't mean I will assume he feels negatively at the place he works in. And of course I don't 'support' Wenger, why would I keep posting he should of left years ago I believed in his methods? But I don't feel the need to pick at the bones of everything he does because I won't allow myself to get that wound up by him. And I certainly won't allow his interviews and words to get under my skin. I learnt to ignore those some time ago.

[Özim]

Nope that's your interpretation for some reason. The post that you replied to spoke about people caring to do well. Which is the majority of people. People who may not like their work or the company that employs them but realise that in order to progress, they need to have some pride in their work to do so. My post and posts about Wenger's care and attention have been primarily about his attention towards his work and day to day duties. I believe he still wants to do his best. But that best just isn't good enough anymore to achieve success as us fans define it. But on the topic of do I think he cares about the club? Yes I do. Just because his methods and ideas don't sit with mine it doesn't mean I will assume he feels negatively at the place he works in. And of course I don't 'support' Wenger, why would I keep posting he should of left years ago I believed in his methods? But I don't feel the need to pick at the bones of everything he does because I won't allow myself to get that wound up by him. And I certainly won't allow his interviews and words to get under my skin. I learnt to ignore those some time ago.

For me caring for your job and caring for the club are two different things, I agree he cares about his job, if he does it well he gets satisfaction and rewarded well, his job as he sees it though doesn't appear to be footabll performance related, it seems more financial performance related so I don't care much for his idea of doing a good job.

Letters has constantly said he cares about the club (this is a very selfless thing) as opposed to caring for your job (more of a sense of pride and I guess also more about financial reward, so in a sense that's more for yourself), I don't really care about either but don't believe he cares about the club to be honest, but more importantly he's not doing a good job football wise, if he was I would't care either way, being a good manager doesn't involve caring for a club, it involves making the right decisions to bring success.

It's hard not to get irritated by the man for example, because he almost seems to go out of his way to do things to wind people up or prove them wrong, just when you think he can't get more complacent he does and then goes and gloats about it with a multitude of excuses in the media, find it all pretty pathetic the way he absolves himself of responsibility and despite evidence to the contrary refuses to acknowlegde widely known facts about the teams limitations, or at least he doing seem to have much motivation to do anything about them.

Let's be honest here, the majority of people think he's rather odd in the way he manages, they don't understand you can fail to remedy certain issues, only a select few (Ty AFTV :lol:) still make excuses for the inexcusable.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Not that Maureen would sell but I am curious, how much do you think Rashford would go for?

[GP]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqjULZyWAAA8EKS.jpg

[fakeyank]

At least 50 million quid (if not more).

[Letters]

To be fair though there are a lot of fans who think we are not competing because it's not possible, if the great Arsene Wenger can't compete how can we.
Do people think that? I don't think many think that now.
There was a time just after the stadium move when the billionaire's money was having the biggest impact (I don't think I need to defend that view, look where the trophies ended up) and there was some belt tightening required (Dein's interview backs that up, this is apparently inadmissible as evidence about what goes on in the club for some reason). In that era I think Wenger did pretty well to keep us relatively competitive and it was hard for us to compete.
Now the shackles have come off financially and we should be able to compete with anyone. There are very fans who think that if the 'great' Arsene Wenger can't make us compete then no-one can. Compete straw man argument.

[selassie]

This is interesting.

An interview with Jonker.

http://news.arseblog.com/2014/10/jonker-arsenal-scouting-must-be-restructured/



Some interesting points. Wenger was aware of Jonker before Gazidis brought him over and wanted to sign him up himself. I guess that makes things makes sense. Also the the part about Wenger giving the green light makes a lot of sense. The Henry coaching decision now seems more clear.

Some interesting stuff here PnG, I never really knew of the recruitment process regarding Jonker, I knew he came here with a big rep and has a big job to do restructuring the Youth system, but that is about as far as it went. Interesting regarding the next Manager being one that has to be pro developing youth and integrating them into the First team.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqjULZyWAAA8EKS.jpg

:haha:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

At least 50 million quid (if not more).

Make it happen then

[fakeyank]

Make it happen then

I am trying but Wenger will only offer 23 rupees.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Do people think that? I don't think many think that now.
There was a time just after the stadium move when the billionaire's money was having the biggest impact (I don't think I need to defend that view, look where the trophies ended up) and there was some belt tightening required (Dein's interview backs that up, this is apparently inadmissible as evidence about what goes on in the club for some reason). In that era I think Wenger did pretty well to keep us relatively competitive and it was hard for us to compete.
Now the shackles have come off financially and we should be able to compete with anyone. There are very fans who think that if the 'great' Arsene Wenger can't make us compete then no-one can. Compete straw man argument.

You obviously need to spend more time on Twitter then, because there are people who think just that

[Kano]

Surely the knobhead over the top reactions work both ways on Twatter? People fly into abuse at Wenger and others that back him are just vociferous with their point of view. 99% of social media is just a gauge for how egotistical people are.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Surely the knobhead over the top reactions work both ways on Twatter? People fly into abuse at Wenger and others that back him are just vociferous with their point of view. 99% of social media is just a gauge for how egotistical people are.

Not saying that's not the case, Letters merely accused me of making a claim about fans that he didn't think was the case and I am asserting that such people with the point of view do indeed exist.

[Power n Glory]

Some interesting stuff here PnG, I never really knew of the recruitment process regarding Jonker, I knew he came here with a big rep and has a big job to do restructuring the Youth system, but that is about as far as it went. Interesting regarding the next Manager being one that has to be pro developing youth and integrating them into the First team.

It gives an idea of what's going on behind the scenes and the decisions being made. It makes sense to want to continue developing youth. It's just how far will they go with that.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

To be fair though there are a lot of fans who think we are not competing because it's not possible, if the great Arsene Wenger can't compete how can we.
Leicester is then an outlier and the competing clubs all had a bad season, but we are then lumped in with the competing clubs because we had a bollocks season as well.
I think that we can compete with a better manager but only if Kroenke unties Gazidis' hands and doesn't give a manager carte Blanche to operate his own fiefdom where he is accountable to no one.
There is a school thought that under precisely the same conditions, namely the club ownership and playing staff, that a better manager would have won at least 2 league titles in the last 10 years.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It gives an idea of what's going on behind the scenes and the decisions being made. It makes sense to want to continue developing youth. It's just how far will they go with that.

firstly i think it's fucked up that wenger has to give the green light to changes that he probably won't be around to benefit from, second makes you wonder if instead of transfers money is being ploughed into this project, don't get me wrong i don't think it would cost hundreds of millions to overhaul the academy but maybe it's an example of the club looking beyond Wenger. I don't know i see a lot of evidence of everything from a footballing sense being left in Wenger's hands, but if honestly someone like Gazidis is thinking a few moves ahead than fair play to him.

[Kano]

There is a school thought that under precisely the same conditions, namely the club ownership and playing staff, that a better manager would have won at least 2 league titles in the last 10 years.

Maybe. But it's one of those ideas that are impossible to know. You'd hope we'd be more competitive in the title race at least. Just like when someone says 'if we bought so and so we'd walk the league'. That one always makes me laugh.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

A better manager would have done so.......but whether we could have got ourselves a better manager is another question. In a ten year period you'd be brave to say no though....

It's not necessarily my view, but I was prompted by Sherbert's insinuation that it will only get better if the ownership changes. And the ownership in my mind ain't changing for some considerable time.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

A better manager would have done so.......but whether we could have got ourselves a better manager is another question. In a ten year period you'd be brave to say no though....

It's not necessarily my view, but I was prompted by Sherbert's insinuation that it will only get better if the ownership changes. And the ownership in my mind ain't changing for some considerable time.

I'd like to be wrong about that, but you can't shy away from the fact that Wenger runs the show because someone allows him to. Is that same someone going to behave more responsibly with a new manager, will they actually allow Gazidis to be that mans boss rather than in just name only?. Be nice to think so but the evidence doesn't stack up in favour of it.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I wonder what it would be like to talk about the excitement of transfers, a new season & something to look forward to!?!

Maybe someone should start a thread........

[Niall_Quinn]

I wonder what it would be like to talk about the excitement of transfers, a new season & something to look forward to!?!

Maybe someone should start a thread........

??? Why?

What a waste of time that would be.

Some wise soul (perhaps he had foreknowledge or perhaps he is a student of the bloody inevitable) had the sense to create a misery and recriminations thread, which is highly appropriate. And I think it has been a success. All in all most people here are miserable and there has been plenty of recriminations.

But a transfer thread?

Who would post there?

And for what purpose?

[Marc Overmars]

We need a place to talk about all the players we're not going to sign tbf.

[alexander]

We need a place to talk about all the players we're not going to sign tbf.

that would be everyone then. A thread that lists the players we have put a bid in for/enquired about but given up on as soon as we hear the price.

We must be the worst club (in our financial position) at finalising any transfer. Its maddening.

[Letters]

You obviously need to spend more time on Twitter then

I really don't :lol:

There may be some people who think like that just like there are some people who think Wenger is a bumbling incompetent.
You'll always get extremes of opinion and places like Twitter (and this place) are where people go to express them.

Obviously both extremes are bullshit and if I repeat myself on here (to respond to PnG's comment) then it's only because people keep spouting the same bullshit so obviously the counter-argument will always be the same.

You don't keep finishing top 4 with someone at the helm as incompetent as some on here suppose - it's actually been 3 years since we finished 4th anyway, the last 2 seasons we did better. If you want to know what it's like with someone truly mediocre in charge then see Moyes at Utd. And the fact we think we should be competing for the title every year is a compliment to Wenger - that never used to be an Arsenal fan's expectations. But given that is our expectation level and we now have the money to compete (which we haven't always had in the Emirates era) it's not good enough that he's not doing what he needs to do to give us a chance.

[Goonermerree]

Seven days to go. :tumbleweed:

[Marc Overmars]

that would be everyone then. A thread that lists the players we have put a bid in for/enquired about but given up on as soon as we hear the price.

We must be the worst club (in our financial position) at finalising any transfer. Its maddening.

Every club in the game regardless of wealth or existing quality understands the importance of the transfer market and making use of their resources on offer. Except for us. Our manager believes players who have consistently let him down will magically come good, so there is no need to push the boat out. Everyone else is wrong and he's right.

Nothing should surprise me anymore but I would be really gobsmacked if we didn't bring anymore players in. Horrible management.

[Gooner23]

Indeed. And I'm not sure I care that much any more. Some better players would be nice, but I don't think we'll be any closer to wining the league this season. I reckon we'll be miles off the pace.

[Power n Glory]

I really don't :lol:

There may be some people who think like that just like there are some people who think Wenger is a bumbling incompetent.
You'll always get extremes of opinion and places like Twitter (and this place) are where people go to express them.

Obviously both extremes are bullshit and if I repeat myself on here (to respond to PnG's comment) then it's only because people keep spouting the same bullshit so obviously the counter-argument will always be the same.

You don't keep finishing top 4 with someone at the helm as incompetent as some on here suppose - it's actually been 3 years since we finished 4th anyway, the last 2 seasons we did better. If you want to know what it's like with someone truly mediocre in charge then see Moyes at Utd. And the fact we think we should be competing for the title every year is a compliment to Wenger - that never used to be an Arsenal fan's expectations. But given that is our expectation level and we now have the money to compete (which we haven't always had in the Emirates era) it's not good enough that he's not doing what he needs to do to give us a chance.

You do this on purpose. Can you at least update the David Moyes reference? :lol:

[Power n Glory]

Every club in the game regardless of wealth or existing quality understands the importance of the transfer market and making use of their resources on offer. Except for us. Our manager believes players who have consistently let him down will magically come good, so there is no need to push the boat out. Everyone else is wrong and he's right.

Nothing should surprise me anymore but I would be really gobsmacked if we didn't bring anymore players in. Horrible management.

Considering the situation we're in and the way he's back himself into a corner, I can't see anything happening either. We'd have to find a club desperate to sell on deadline day at this point.

[KSE Comedy Club]

??? Why?

What a waste of time that would be.

Some wise soul (perhaps he had foreknowledge or perhaps he is a student of the bloody inevitable) had the sense to create a misery and recriminations thread, which is highly appropriate. And I think it has been a success. All in all most people here are miserable and there has been plenty of recriminations.

But a transfer thread?

Who would post there?

And for what purpose?


Letters would post there, on his own, defending Wenger against himself to the end :lol:

[Marc Overmars]

Considering the situation we're in and the way he's back himself into a corner, I can't see anything happening either. We'd have to find a club desperate to sell on deadline day at this point.

It's ironic that in operating in the way we do in hope of getting the best prices, by leaving it this late we're probably going to pay way OTT anyway.

[KSE Comedy Club]

We need a place to talk about all the players we're not going to sign tbf.

I could write a book about all the players we're not going to sign.

[Power n Glory]

It's ironic that in operating in the way we do in hope of getting the best prices, by leaving it this late we're probably going to pay way OTT anyway.

We’ve judged it wrong again. We might as well of just paid the money early in the window so we’d have the player training with the team at least. They’d be more prepared for the season.

[Goonermerree]

Oh dear god, we're still being linked with Jonny Evans.

[AFC Leveller]

We’ve judged it wrong again. We might as well of just paid the money early in the window so we’d have the player training with the team at least. They’d be more prepared for the season.

Good idea TBH, but Wenger is a tight cunt.

[Letters]

Letters would post there, on his own, defending Wenger against himself to the end :lol:

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/strawman.jpg

:tiphat:

[Letters]

Good idea TBH, but Wenger is a tight cunt.

What do you think of our wage bill?

[Power n Glory]

Good idea TBH, but Wenger is a tight cunt.

The priority should have been on the pitch and protecting his players.

Sanchez is having to wrestle with his fitness and learn a new role. Remember he had that bad ankle injury during the Copa America. Rob Holding has been thrown into the deep end for his debut season.

[Xhaka Can’t]

You obviously need to spend more time on Twitter then, because there are people who think just that

Nobody needs to spend more time on Twitter.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Nobody needs to spend more time on Twitter.

Twitter is fantastic, literally not a day goes past where I fail to be astonished by the level of ignorance, vitriol and unpleasantness on display. People find themselves justifying the most outrageous behaviour....it's truly a blessed Elysium.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I could write a book about all the players we're not going to sign.

I'm sure you could make an even bigger compendium of the women you will never sleep with

[AFC Leveller]

What do you think of our wage bill?

A waste of money IMO. We reward players before they have even achieved anything. How can someone as useless as Walcott be earning 100k + for the past 3-4 years? what has he achieved? how can Iwobi get a new bumper contract just a few months after singing a new deal? 2 good games last season and he was rewarded with a pay rise. Im not even gonna go on about the wastemen we had 5 years ago (Denilson, Bentnder, Chamakh, Squillaci etc all on really good contracts.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I really don't :lol:

There may be some people who think like that just like there are some people who think Wenger is a bumbling incompetent.
You'll always get extremes of opinion and places like Twitter (and this place) are where people go to express them.

Obviously both extremes are bullshit and if I repeat myself on here (to respond to PnG's comment) then it's only because people keep spouting the same bullshit so obviously the counter-argument will always be the same.

You don't keep finishing top 4 with someone at the helm as incompetent as some on here suppose - it's actually been 3 years since we finished 4th anyway, the last 2 seasons we did better. If you want to know what it's like with someone truly mediocre in charge then see Moyes at Utd. And the fact we think we should be competing for the title every year is a compliment to Wenger - that never used to be an Arsenal fan's expectations. But given that is our expectation level and we now have the money to compete (which we haven't always had in the Emirates era) it's not good enough that he's not doing what he needs to do to give us a chance.

Nobody expects us to be challenging for the title. We have the resources to challenge, but not the will nor the nous.

And that is the problem with Wenger and/or the Board. They are not even operating a self sustaining business model any longer because that would involve maximising the use of the resources we are ploughing in to their business enterprise.

[Xhaka Can’t]

It's ironic that in operating in the way we do in hope of getting the best prices, by leaving it this late we're probably going to pay way OTT anyway.

Tbh, unless there is a major surprise on the horizon we are now at the point where there is nothing to be gained by entering the transfer market now.

The course for this season has been set.

Enjoy.

[AFC Leveller]

If we really wanted a striker and were serious about challenging, we would have signed him BEFORE the season started. By the end of the window, we could find ourselves with 1 point from nine BECAUSE of the lack of striker! Its unbelievable how much this manager neglects his work and continues to ignore obvious weaknesses.

[selassie]

Considering the situation we're in and the way he's back himself into a corner, I can't see anything happening either. We'd have to find a club desperate to sell on deadline day at this point.

Aye, we're screwed, we either overpay for garbage or bring nobody in. I don't understand the mind set of Wenger and the way he operates in the market.

[AFC Leveller]

Aye, we're screwed, we either overpay for garbage or bring nobody in. I don't understand the mind set of Wenger and the way he operates in the market.

It's been my life and, quite honestly, I'm scared of the day. Because the longer I wait, the more difficult it will be to lose the addiction,"

He's here to stay (and die).

[Power n Glory]

firstly i think it's fucked up that wenger has to give the green light to changes that he probably won't be around to benefit from, second makes you wonder if instead of transfers money is being ploughed into this project, don't get me wrong i don't think it would cost hundreds of millions to overhaul the academy but maybe it's an example of the club looking beyond Wenger. I don't know i see a lot of evidence of everything from a footballing sense being left in Wenger's hands, but if honestly someone like Gazidis is thinking a few moves ahead than fair play to him.

Jonker overhauling the scouting system and staff is a good example of someone with experience at the highest level restructuring how we operate. We need similar appointments at the club. It's a shame Adams and Henry haven't taken the coaching roles but I think it's possible for things to change once Wenger is gone because it seems like we're open to change but it has to be run past Wenger first.

I'd love to think the club have held back the funds from Wenger this season because that would indicate his time is up but I don't think that's the case.

[Power n Glory]

Aye, we're screwed, we either overpay for garbage or bring nobody in. I don't understand the mind set of Wenger and the way he operates in the market.

Lacacettte -5 goals in 3 games. :(

It's not going to happen for us. Crazy.

[Letters]

A waste of money IMO. We reward players before they have even achieved anything. How can someone as useless as Walcott be earning 100k + for the past 3-4 years? what has he achieved? how can Iwobi get a new bumper contract just a few months after singing a new deal? 2 good games last season and he was rewarded with a pay rise. Im not even gonna go on about the wastemen we had 5 years ago (Denilson, Bentnder, Chamakh, Squillaci etc all on really good contracts.

:blink:

So you think Wenger is a "tight cunt" who is "wasting money"?

[Letters]

Nobody expects us to be challenging for the title. We have the resources to challenge, but not the will nor the nous.

And that is the problem with Wenger and/or the Board. They are not even operating a self sustaining business model any longer because that would involve maximising the use of the resources we are ploughing in to their business enterprise.

I don't expect us to challenge for the title this season, but I do think we SHOULD be challenging for the title with our resources.
The fact I feel we should challenge, and the fact I don't expect us to are both down to Wenger, confusingly.

[GP]

I don't expect us to challenge for the title this season, but I do think we SHOULD be challenging for the title with our resources.
The fact I feel we should challenge, and the fact I don't expect us to are both down to Wenger, confusingly.

Why won't you just admit he needs to go?

So sick of you defending him for everything.

[Goonermerree]

JOSE WOULD BLOCK ARSENAL MOVE

Manchester United are set to reject any offer from Arsenal for Phil Jones, because Jose Mourinho doesn’t want to do business with Arsene Wenger, according to the London Evening Standard.

Arsenal are also reportedly interested in Jones, as their hunt for a centre-back goes on.

From Sky. would we want him anyway?

[Letters]

Why won't you just admit he needs to go?

So sick of you defending him for everything.

He's the 2nd* best human who has ever lived, tbh

* - #Jebus.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

He's the 2nd* best human who has ever lived, tbh

* - #Jebus.

2nd best human?

that's not really a high standard to hold someone to

It's like saying Staphylococcus is the 2nd best bacterial infection

#selfhatinghumanbeing

[selassie]

Lacacettte -5 goals in 3 games. :(

It's not going to happen for us. Crazy.

Sad thing is we would most likely have signed the likes of Lacazette and Mustafi back in July if we had paid the going rate for them.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Sad thing is we would most likely have signed the likes of Lacazette and Mustafi back in July if we had paid the going rate for them.

The bid for Lacazette was made in July

And Mertesacker didn't get injured until 22nd July, never any intention of signing a first team centre back before then

The point is we started out in the transfer market in May and we are where we are because Wenger dithers and agonises over making signings and no amount of earlier action would change that.

[selassie]

The bid for Lacazette was made in July

And Mertesacker didn't get injured until 22nd July, never any intention of signing a first team centre back before then

Our bid for Lacazette was 10million Euros below what they wanted at the time and we never went back if reports are to be believed. I don't understand our mentality in the market, if you like a player why make the one bid then walk away?

We needed a proper CB even before Merts injury IMO, of course Wenger thinks otherwise and it seems he will stick with one of Gabriel, Holding or Chambers to partner Kos. We aint signing a starting CB with the prices being quoted for our targets.

[Özim]

Our bid for Lacazette was 10million Euros below what they wanted at the time and we never went back if reports are to be believed. I don't understand our mentality in the market, if you like a player why make the one bid then walk away?

We needed a proper CB even before Merts injury IMO, of course Wenger thinks otherwise and it seems he will stick with one of Gabriel, Holding or Chambers to partner Kos. We aint signing a starting CB with the prices being quoted for our targets.

I think basically it's for one of two reasons, either we're cheap and just want to get players on the cheap (won't happen), or we put these bids in knowing full well they'll get rejected (and if it doesn't it's a lowbal offer anyway so nothing to lose) anyway and we can then point to the fact we tried to sign players (to the fans) but they were too expensive because let's face it we were never going to sign Lacazette for less than West Ham had offered, it was a pointless bid.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

http://arseblog.com/2016/08/stan-kroenke-problem-will-probably-get-worse/

Andrew of Arseblog appears to see things the way I do

[Özim]

http://arseblog.com/2016/08/stan-kroenke-problem-will-probably-get-worse/

Andrew of Arseblog appears to see things the way I do

Noone absolves Kroenke of blame, he's clearly a problem as well, one thing at a time though, get rid of the manager first because that's the easier solution and will make a difference as that stubborn man in charge is doing too many things wrong, you have to start somewhere.

Getting an owner to move on is a hard thing to do, especially when he's never around and not really interested, it would be different if he lived in the UK and was at matches, we've got ourselves the worst kind of owner of all, facilitated by all the previous board members who sold their shares sadly.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Noone absolves Kroenke of blame, he's clearly a problem as well, one thing at a time though, get rid of the manager first because that's the easier solution and will make a difference as that stubborn man in charge is doing too many things wrong, you have to start somewhere.

Getting an owner to move on is a hard thing to do, especially when he's never around and not really interested, it would be different if he lived in the UK and was at matches, we've got ourselves the worst kind of owner of all, facilitated by all the previous board members who sold their shares sadly.

No-one is stating that Wenger shouldn't move on, he's a relic...even with a better owner I still think he'd be making the same basic mistakes and not learning from them.

All i've ever tried to do is manage expectations, get rid of Wenger fine no argument from me....what then?.....who do we get in?.....can we really make the assumption that we are going to be an automatic draw to someone like Diego Simeone who doesn't speak English, for me gets his teams playing far more dull football than we do under Wenger and in my mind has absolutely no reason to want to leave Atletico Madrid for us.
Then what??.....Wenger whatever else we think of him is better than a great deal of the managers in the premier league currently, trying to claim that anyone could have kept a club of our stature consistent is on the surface unfalsifiable but essentially countered by evidence of what has happened to big clubs like Manchester united and Chelsea in the last three years.
I don't want to qualify for the top four just for the sake of it, but neither do i want us to fall out of the top four just for the want of something different
The stagnation, the ground hog season year after year is all interminable and so unnecessary but to pretend literally anyone is our ticket out of there is naive in the extreme.
Tuchel?, Bilic?, Low?, Koeman?....the man we bring in seems to me twice as important as just getting rid of the current manager apart from giving certain supporters like yourself a brief moment of catharsis.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't expect us to challenge for the title this season, but I do think we SHOULD be challenging for the title with our resources.
The fact I feel we should challenge, and the fact I don't expect us to are both down to Wenger, confusingly.

So when I say he is incompetent and an idiot (which does NOT mean unintelligent as I have pointed out), you call that an extreme position. You hold up perennial underachievement as a measure of competency. You equate the desire of the fans to compete with Wenger's mere presence. It is quite possible for somebody to be good at their job for part of their career and incompetent for another part, and this is the case with Wenger.

If he cannot use the resources he has properly, if he cannot correct repeating mistakes, if he can not mount a serious title challenge given all the advantages at his disposal, if he cannot operate with any sort of efficiency in the transfer market, if he cannot progress in the Champions League and routinely falters against inferior opponents...

Is he competent, or incompetent? By the definition of the word?

And if he keeps on repeating the same steps that lead to the same mistakes and refuses to change, and indeed gets defensive and hostile when challenged because he is determined not to even listen, let alone change...

Is he an idiot?

Doesn't the evidence point very strongly to the fact he is an incompetent idiot? I think it does.

[Niall_Quinn]

JOSE WOULD BLOCK ARSENAL MOVE

Manchester United are set to reject any offer from Arsenal for Phil Jones, because Jose Mourinho doesn’t want to do business with Arsene Wenger, according to the London Evening Standard.

Arsenal are also reportedly interested in Jones, as their hunt for a centre-back goes on.

From Sky. would we want him anyway?

After the Cech transfer? Maureen will never do business with us again under any circumstances.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

After the Cech transfer? Maureen will never do business with us again under any circumstances.

Why would he do business with us?

Even Wenger had to start to think twice before selling his players to premier league "rivals"

[Niall_Quinn]

Sad thing is we would most likely have signed the likes of Lacazette and Mustafi back in July if we had paid the going rate for them.

Wenger has already signed the players he actually wanted to sign. The midfielder we don't need, the striker who can't get a work permit and the poor kid from the lower leagues who has been baptised in fire as another shining example of Wenger's mythical skills at protecting and progressing young talent. Wenger didn't hesitate on Xhaka because he's the final and ultimate piece in the tippy, tappy jigsaw. The ultimate tip/ tap master - he's better than that but Wenger will constrain and eventually destroy him. We actually underbid for Holding, quite astonishing really and very revealing. I assume the Japanese kid is all about shirt sales.

Lacazette and Mustaphi and Messi, Ronaldo and Greizmann/ Lewandowski, these are all a mix of media bullshit and Wenger and the board trying to hold the line and beat back the raging fans until the transfer window closes. We do it a lot. Underbid and then string it. Saves us having to chase any real targets. Saves the money. Keeps Stan in ranches.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why would he do business with us?

Even Wenger had to start to think twice before selling his players to premier league "rivals"

Well I'm sure if he had a Silvestre handy he might consider it. Fergie :haha: Sneaky old git.

[selassie]

http://arseblog.com/2016/08/stan-kroenke-problem-will-probably-get-worse/

Andrew of Arseblog appears to see things the way I do

Nice find Herb, it's a good article and is very balanced IMO. Of course in an ideal world we would all sit here and lap up what Gazidis is telling us and accept that we have a owner that is as stingy as Scrooge.

Without wanting to go over old ground or repeat myself, we all know we have a Manager who simply isn't doing enough with the resources he has at his disposal, let's get rid of him first and see where we go from there?

[selassie]

Wenger has already signed the players he actually wanted to sign. The midfielder we don't need, the striker who can't get a work permit and the poor kid from the lower leagues who has been baptised in fire as another shining example of Wenger's mythical skills at protecting and progressing young talent. Wenger didn't hesitate on Xhaka because he's the final and ultimate piece in the tippy, tappy jigsaw. The ultimate tip/ tap master - he's better than that but Wenger will constrain and eventually destroy him. We actually underbid for Holding, quite astonishing really and very revealing. I assume the Japanese kid is all about shirt sales.

Lacazette and Mustaphi and Messi, Ronaldo and Greizmann/ Lewandowski, these are all a mix of media bullshit and Wenger and the board trying to hold the line and beat back the raging fans until the transfer window closes. We do it a lot. Underbid and then string it. Saves us having to chase any real targets. Saves the money. Keeps Stan in ranches.

:gp:

I do like your football related posts NQ, always put a smile on my face! On the money here :)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Nice find Herb, it's a good article and is very balanced IMO. Of course in an ideal world we would all sit here and lap up what Gazidis is telling us and accept that we have a owner that is as stingy as Scrooge.

Without wanting to go over old ground or repeat myself, we all know we have a Manager who simply isn't doing enough with the resources he has at his disposal, let's get rid of him first and see where we go from there?

I refer you to my post on the previous page in response to Zim

[KSE Comedy Club]

He's the 2nd* best human who has ever lived, tbh

* - #Jebus.

:haha:

[KSE Comedy Club]

I'm sure you could make an even bigger compendium of the women you will never sleep with

I can't, my fingers are already bleeding from writing the compendium of the women that I have ;)

[Thierrymon]

Have we signed Johnny Evans yet?

[selassie]

I refer you to my post on the previous page in response to Zim

Yeah just seen it ;)

[KSE Comedy Club]

http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/strawman.jpg

:tiphat:

Follow the yellow brick road and speak to the guy at the end of it - he'll help you out ;)

Or in your case - the wengerbrick road.

:tiphat: :rimshot:

[fakeyank]

So when I say he is incompetent and an idiot (which does NOT mean unintelligent as I have pointed out), you call that an extreme position. You hold up perennial underachievement as a measure of competency. You equate the desire of the fans to compete with Wenger's mere presence. It is quite possible for somebody to be good at their job for part of their career and incompetent for another part, and this is the case with Wenger.

If he cannot use the resources he has properly, if he cannot correct repeating mistakes, if he can not mount a serious title challenge given all the advantages at his disposal, if he cannot operate with any sort of efficiency in the transfer market, if he cannot progress in the Champions League and routinely falters against inferior opponents...

Is he competent, or incompetent? By the definition of the word?

And if he keeps on repeating the same steps that lead to the same mistakes and refuses to change, and indeed gets defensive and hostile when challenged because he is determined not to even listen, let alone change...

Is he an idiot?

Doesn't the evidence point very strongly to the fact he is an incompetent idiot? I think it does.

:gp: :gp: :gp:

:loveblush:

[Letters]

You don't finish top 4 every year with an incompetent idiot in charge IMO.
But as the term is purely subjective I don't think there's much point discussing it further.

[Munchies]

So when I say he is incompetent and an idiot (which does NOT mean unintelligent as I have pointed out), you call that an extreme position. You hold up perennial underachievement as a measure of competency. You equate the desire of the fans to compete with Wenger's mere presence. It is quite possible for somebody to be good at their job for part of their career and incompetent for another part, and this is the case with Wenger.

If he cannot use the resources he has properly, if he cannot correct repeating mistakes, if he can not mount a serious title challenge given all the advantages at his disposal, if he cannot operate with any sort of efficiency in the transfer market, if he cannot progress in the Champions League and routinely falters against inferior opponents...

Is he competent, or incompetent? By the definition of the word?

And if he keeps on repeating the same steps that lead to the same mistakes and refuses to change, and indeed gets defensive and hostile when challenged because he is determined not to even listen, let alone change...

Is he an idiot?

Doesn't the evidence point very strongly to the fact he is an incompetent idiot? I think it does.

:gp: :gp: :gp: :gp: :gp: :gp:

[Kano]

Have we signed Johnny Evans yet?

Not yet unfortunately. Fingers crossed.

[Niall_Quinn]

You don't finish top 4 every year with an incompetent idiot in charge IMO.
But as the term is purely subjective I don't think there's much point discussing it further.

The only thing saving him now is his reputation. For example, if I was hired to manage Arsenal and I started fucking up (because I'd be incompetent at the job through lack of experience) it wouldn't take long for fans to start calling me incompetent. And if I spat back at them and said no, I'm right, the whole world is wrong - then they'd call me an idiot too. And nobody would see a problem with that because indeed, I'd be incompetent and behaving like an idiot.

However, take a man who has managed a club for 20 years and when he fucks up and behaves like an idiot people say no, it can't be true, a man of his experience can't be incompetent, he can't be an idiot. But they wouldn't be judging that on the evidence, they'd be reaching their conclusions based on reputation.

And the term isn't purely subjective. When somebody cannot perform a task through lack of knowledge or ability it is not subjective to call them incompetent. There's the task. The task remains undone. Because the person asked to complete the task is unable to do it. Because he is incompetent.

[Globalgunner]

You don't finish top 4 every year with an incompetent idiot in charge IMO.
But as the term is purely subjective I don't think there's much point discussing it further.

You can be successful and still be a real idiot. Take Trump for instance. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive. A smart man would have made far more of the inheritance given to him by his father. So coming 4th while having all the means to come 1st means diddly really.

[Letters]

You can be successful and still be a real idiot. Take Trump for instance. The 2 things are not mutually exclusive. A smart man would have made far more of the inheritance given to him by his father. So coming 4th while having all the means to come 1st means diddly really.

Fair point about Trump :lol:
We haven't always had the means to come first though.

[Letters]

:gp: :gp: :gp:

:loveblush:

Wait...hang on, the other day you said you hate Wenger because in your view is he's colluding with the board to make money to the detriment of competing.
If you believe that (which I don't) then surely he's doing an excellent job? I don't see how you can think what you said the other day AND think he's incompetent...

[mastermind84]

And Mertesacker didn't get injured until 22nd July, never any intention of signing a first team centre back before then

thats not true.

The club was always looking for a CB because Chambers was supposed to go on loan and they wanted to get a Per replacement this season. Thats where the Koulibaly stories came from in June (sign him over Mustafi, ffs). We were linked with a lot of centerbacks in May and June like Manolas from Roma.

[fakeyank]

Wait...hang on, the other day you said you hate Wenger because in your view is he's colluding with the board to make money to the detriment of competing.
If you believe that (which I don't) then surely he's doing an excellent job? I don't see how you can think what you said the other day AND think he's incompetent...

I think NQ put forward a very very good case to show that he is incompetent, and for that I have shown my appreciation.

Do I personally believe he is incompetent? I dont think so. This man has an MBA and brought 'new' methods to the English Premier League. He fought toe to toe against SAF, and actually had a better head to head record till a decade ago. I just dont believe he went senile all of a sudden. Greed of the money outgrew his passion for football. Sure he is stubborn, but he is also the devils advocate.. and I think being a devil's advocate is worse than being the devil.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

thats not true.

The club was always looking for a CB because Chambers was supposed to go on loan and they wanted to get a Per replacement this season. Thats where the Koulibaly stories came from in June (sign him over Mustafi, ffs). We were linked with a lot of centerbacks in May and June like Manolas from Roma.

From my understanding Holding was always the intended centre back to bring in to allow Chambers to go on loan

[mastermind84]

From my understanding Holding was always the intended centre back to bring in to allow Chambers to go on loan

Yeah, but we needed someone to partner Kos since there was no faith in Per any more and Gabriel was a dumpster fire.

I think the club was always looking for a CB but it got desperate once Per got injured.

[Letters]

I think NQ put forward a very very good case to show that he is incompetent, and for that I have shown my appreciation.

Do I personally believe he is incompetent? I dont think so. This man has an MBA and brought 'new' methods to the English Premier League. He fought toe to toe against SAF, and actually had a better head to head record till a decade ago. I just dont believe he went senile all of a sudden. Greed of the money outgrew his passion for football. Sure he is stubborn, but he is also the devils advocate.. and I think being a devil's advocate is worse than being the devil.

Three 'good posts' and a 'loveblush' for a post you disagree with? Wow...
I don't agree with you but I do now understand your attitude towards Wenger if you think he's in collusion with the board (I don't think he is, and I think they deserve more of the scorn than they get)
I don't think he's gone senile either, I just think he's slowly taken over areas of responsibility which shouldn't be his job and he isn't very good at, like transfer negotiations. Also, the game has moved on and he hasn't moved with it. If he thinks that the whole transfer market is crazy then he's right, obviously, but so are house prices in London but that doesn't mean you make yourself homeless as a protest against it.
I've been losing interest in football for years and The Olympics were another timely reminder of what sport should be about.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Three 'good posts' and a 'loveblush' for a post you disagree with? Wow...
I don't agree with you but I do now understand your attitude towards Wenger if you think he's in collusion with the board (I don't think he is, and I think they deserve more of the scorn than they get)
I don't think he's gone senile either, I just think he's slowly taken over areas of responsibility which shouldn't be his job and he isn't very good at, like transfer negotiations. Also, the game has moved on and he hasn't moved with it. If he thinks that the whole transfer market is crazy then he's right, obviously, but so are house prices in London but that doesn't mean you make yourself homeless as a protest against it.
I've been losing interest in football for years and The Olympics were another timely reminder of what sport should be about.

Yeah, giving judges who robbed you the finger, vandalising a gas station and falsely reporting you were robbed at gunpoint is what it's all about.

[Letters]

Yeah, giving judges who robbed you the finger, vandalising a gas station and falsely reporting you were robbed at gunpoint is what it's all about.

:lol:


You know what I mean :sulk:

[Power n Glory]

They play football at the Olympics too.

[Letters]

They do but they shouldn't. And most of the preening prima-donnas don't play but I don't really follow it at The Olympics.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Yeah, but we needed someone to partner Kos since there was no faith in Per any more and Gabriel was a dumpster fire.

I think the club was always looking for a CB but it got desperate once Per got injured.

We needed a centre back, isn't the same as Wenger thinking he needed a centre back is what I'm saying

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Twitter wars

One of the diehard Wenger supporters is claiming the money isn't there for Wenger to spend, going by the report in May that said we only have 55million to spend (cash up front that's probably not untrue) and seeing as obviously we've already spunked 33 on Xhaka we only have 22 million left to spend.

[fakeyank]

Three 'good posts' and a 'loveblush' for a post you disagree with? Wow...

Dont question how I use my emojis. They are my personal form of expression. <_<

[Letters]

Dont question how I use my emojis. They are my personal form of expression. <_<

You live your truth :hug:

[Kano]

Twitter wars

One of the diehard Wenger supporters is claiming the money isn't there for Wenger to spend, going by the report in May that said we only have 55million to spend (cash up front that's probably not untrue) and seeing as obviously we've already spunked 33 on Xhaka we only have 22 million left to spend.
It's amazing how all this information is out there to read to formulate an argument and yet spastics will always be spastics

[Letters]

That should arguably be the GW motto.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

It's amazing how all this information is out there to read to formulate an argument and yet spastics will always be spastics

this is his bible, the article that hung around like a bad smell for a few weeks a few months ago

https://www.css-investments.com/stock-analysis/arsenal-report/

[alexander]

It's amazing how all this information is out there to read to formulate an argument and yet spastics will always be spastics

Technically they are called `scope` these days.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Spastic is not even an offensive word, it's just inaccurate

[alexander]

Spastic is not even an offensive word, it's just inaccurate

Never hear it these days. At school we always went with `spaz`. More catchy.

[Kano]

That should arguably be the GW motto.

:lol:

[Kano]

this is his bible, the article that hung around like a bad smell for a few weeks a few months ago

https://www.css-investments.com/stock-analysis/arsenal-report/
Yes I saw that. Nice touch to add a bullshit newsletter link as the first thing to read and click, which helps the site bounce rate ontop of a crappy article to help boost the average read time. AST did their usual budget analysis along with Swiss Ramble and reckoned that it was around the £100m mark in terms of available spend. And when you take into account player amortisation, you realise that more should have been spent even before these supposed 'sacred' commercial deals came to the fore.

[Marc Overmars]

I think it's fair to say that a substantial amount of cash has always been available but Wenger/the club just haven't been willing to take the risk.

We've actually spent a lot though in recent seasons when you consider we haven't sold anyone of significance since RVC. Our net spend must be quite high but Wenger still hasn't managed to get close to the major prizes, maybe he's accepted he can't do it anymore and doesn't want to waste more money. :shrug:

[Munchies]

Well atleast we're being linked with someone again, Lucas Perez from Deportivo

Scored 17 goals and had 10 assists last season

Spanish media say Everton were in for him, but we've made a last minute move and he wants to join us. £16m release clause


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLtNFYo_fno

Seems to have some pace to him and isn't Sanogo. Make it happen.

[Niall_Quinn]

this is his bible, the article that hung around like a bad smell for a few weeks a few months ago

https://www.css-investments.com/stock-analysis/arsenal-report/

Holy fucking hell! What a sob story. Poor us, we're totally fucking skint. No wonder the 600 employees are getting nervous.

We have to tap the overdraft to buy players :haha: Is that how we'd do it? What about buying players on Kroenke's credit card? Is that not an option, at 29%? Or there's always Wonga who I hear have been forced to slash their rates to 5.2million percent per week.

Why did they put this bit in?


Since Mr Wenger’s appointment, the Arsenal share price has jumped a staggering 40 fold from £400 to £16000 per share.

Sometime, they are so keen to praise the master they end up shooting their own faces off.

The real story of Arsenal is right there. One bunch of Jackals who took their cut, and the others tapped into a vein while they wait for the cash out.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

No-one is stating that Wenger shouldn't move on, he's a relic...even with a better owner I still think he'd be making the same basic mistakes and not learning from them.

All i've ever tried to do is manage expectations, get rid of Wenger fine no argument from me....what then?.....who do we get in?.....can we really make the assumption that we are going to be an automatic draw to someone like Diego Simeone who doesn't speak English, for me gets his teams playing far more dull football than we do under Wenger and in my mind has absolutely no reason to want to leave Atletico Madrid for us.
Then what??.....Wenger whatever else we think of him is better than a great deal of the managers in the premier league currently, trying to claim that anyone could have kept a club of our stature consistent is on the surface unfalsifiable but essentially countered by evidence of what has happened to big clubs like Manchester united and Chelsea in the last three years.
I don't want to qualify for the top four just for the sake of it, but neither do i want us to fall out of the top four just for the want of something different
The stagnation, the ground hog season year after year is all interminable and so unnecessary but to pretend literally anyone is our ticket out of there is naive in the extreme.
Tuchel?, Bilic?, Low?, Koeman?....the man we bring in seems to me twice as important as just getting rid of the current manager apart from giving certain supporters like yourself a brief moment of catharsis.
Are you Kroenke's consultancy services team? :d

[Niall_Quinn]

Well atleast we're being linked with someone again, Lucas Perez from Deportivo

Scored 17 goals and had 10 assists last season

Spanish media say Everton were in for him, but we've made a last minute move and he wants to join us. £16m release clause


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLtNFYo_fno

Seems to have some pace to him and isn't Sanogo. Make it happen.

He looks tidy enough. But it's all played against those hopeless defences. You don't get that much time in the PL. But he has to be an improvement on Walnut.

Of course if we buy another cheapie then it's a baked in excuse for not buying a top striker next time around. We have Chepie 1 and Cheapie 2 who would be killed if we brought a goalscorer in. So buy another midfielder instead.

[Özim]

He looks tidy enough. But it's all played against those hopeless defences. You don't get that much time in the PL. But he has to be an improvement on Walnut.

Of course if we buy another cheapie then it's a baked in excuse for not buying a top striker next time around. We have Chepie 1 and Cheapie 2 who would be killed if we brought a goalscorer in. So buy another midfielder instead.

Just looked at this guys record, makes for sorry reading, looks like another cheap nobody we like, 17 in 37 last season (27 years of age) but before that his record was awful, 6 goals the previous season, 2 before that and 10 before that one, his career record is awful......so much for only signing quality if we sign this chump.

This would be just like us though, waste all summer watching quality players and then snatch some nobody who can't shoot for toffee to add to our already rubbish strike force and guarantee no strikers for the next 4 years.

[cricketsi]

Just looked at this guys record, makes for sorry reading, looks like another cheap nobody we like, 17 in 37 last season (27 years of age) but before that his record was awful, 6 goals the previous season, 2 before that and 10 before that one, his career record is awful......so much for only signing quality if we sign this chump.

This would be just like us though, waste all summer watching quality players and then snatch some nobody who can't shoot for toffee to add to our already rubbish strike force and guarantee no strikers for the next 4 years.

Not saying he is a great signing, but...

Since start of 2014/15 season:
Lucas Perez - 58 La Liga appearances, 24 goals
Kevin Gameiro - 57 La Liga appearances, 24 goals

Pretty similar records. Oh, and Lucas Perez is younger and scored those goals for a weaker team.


Gameiro is much better than Giroud, he's worth 28 million that's not a lot in todays market.
:whistle:

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Spanish Jamie Vardy?

I'd honestly rather we save our money.

Everton think he's worth 15million, they will probably make us pay 60 million for the useless cunt

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqsBYV_WgAA5dfG.jpg

[Kano]

The stats are in, it's official.

FIFA :bow:

[KSE Comedy Club]

Sign him up :good:

[Gooner23]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqsBYV_WgAA5dfG.jpg

I love how quickly these get knocked together to justify a potential new signing :lol:

I just want a striker quicker than Giroud and less prone to shitting himself when through on goal than Theo (when given time to think). If he can do that I couldn't give a stuff about price or if he's that well known (sorry for not being influenced by the media Wenger).

The club have made it clear in the last couple of years they have no interest in being in the top tier, so no point in pining over the likes of Aubameyang and Griezman. This is the level we are at, and will remain at under the current ownership / management.

[selassie]

Spanish Jamie Vardy?

I'd honestly rather we save our money.

Everton think he's worth 15million, they will probably make us pay 60 million for the useless cunt

Me too, but it's looking increasingly likely we are not able to attract/obtain a grade A type striker so maybe someone like Perez will have to do for now.

He seems a bit of a panic buy to me and I remain sceptical on whether he's an upgrade on what we have but we need someone so I'll reserve judgement until I see him play.

[Munchies]

At the end of the day, I've already written off the upcoming season, and if we get Xhaka/Perez/Mustafi, not too much money has been spunked by Wenger.

This Perez guy is a different option, and at this stage, is better than nothing.

Let's hope when he leaves, a new manager has a proper clear out of all the shit Wenger has stockpiled like Theo/Sanogo etc

The board need to do one too

[Power n Glory]

He looks like a one season 'wonder'. 19 goals in a season isn't enough. We might as well wait on Welbeck.

[Marc Overmars]

A target that has 'scraping the barrel' written all over it.

[selassie]

He looks like a one season 'wonder'. 19 goals in a season isn't enough. We might as well wait on Welbeck.

Yeah his stats prior to last season are awful and he's no spring chicken either.

It's an opportunist punt by Wenger, he can write it off if it doesn't work out because he is cheap in the current market.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah his stats prior to last season are awful and he's no spring chicken either.

It's an opportunist punt by Wenger, he can write it off if it doesn't work out because he is cheap in the current market.

Wait, wait, wait I might have jumped the gun. There is a reason for those really shitty numbers.

He was winger. It looks like last season was the first time he had a consistent run up front.

[Munchies]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0niLHMKi974

[selassie]

Wait, wait, wait I might have jumped the gun. There is a reason for those really shitty numbers.

He was winger. It looks like last season was the first time he had a consistent run up front.

Ah never realized!

[selassie]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0niLHMKi974

He looks a tidy player, a bit of a fighter too.

[Power n Glory]

Ah never realized!

Me neither.Explains the late blossom. But they play a 4-4-2 system so how that translates to our squad is something else.

[Kano]

Me too, but it's looking increasingly likely we are not able to attract/obtain a grade A type striker so maybe someone like Perez will have to do for now.

He seems a bit of a panic buy to me and I remain sceptical on whether he's an upgrade on what we have but we need someone so I'll reserve judgement until I see him play.
I guess we have to look at any signing in practical terms, as long as they aren't utter shite.

Would we be better with just Giroud upfront or with Giroud and one other? That 'other' may not be an improvement or the type of striker we want but at this stage, beggars can't be choosers. That's the position we've been left in. If someone signs, we have to get behind him and hope for the best.

[selassie]

I guess we have to look at any signing in practical terms, as long as they aren't utter shite.

Would we be better with just Giroud upfront or with Giroud and one other? That 'other' may not be an improvement or the type of striker we want but at this stage, beggars can't be choosers. That's the position we've been left in. If someone signs, we have to get behind him and hope for the best.

Aye, from that video clip he looks pretty tidy to be fair, his numbers for last season were very good too so there is definitely something to work with.

[Munchies]

John Cross just said it's happening

Arsenal very hopeful that £17m deal for Deportivo La Coruna striker Lucas Perez will be done. Maybe Champions League football swung it.

https://twitter.com/johncrossmirror/status/768741490776498176

[Özim]

Not saying he is a great signing, but...

Since start of 2014/15 season:
Lucas Perez - 58 La Liga appearances, 24 goals
Kevin Gameiro - 57 La Liga appearances, 24 goals

Pretty similar records. Oh, and Lucas Perez is younger and scored those goals for a weaker team.


:whistle:

Here's his career record:

2009-2010 - 2 games 0 goals
2010-2011 - 13 games 1 goal
2011-2012 -34 games 7 goals
2012-2013 - 18 games 8 goals
2013-2014 - 50 games 10 goals
2014-2015 - 23 games 8 goals
2015-2016 - 37 game 17 goals

Not great.

[Özim]

Not thrilled with this signing, panic buy written all over it, he's 27 with an average goal record and if we sign him we can forget signing a decent striker in the next few years.

Typical Arsenal, looks like another Giroud or Wellbeck quality wise.

[Munchies]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqsAzI8UMAA--Hk.jpg

More assists/key passes than 'target man' Giroud

[Munchies]

Not thrilled with this signing, panic buy written all over it, he's 27 with an average goal record and if we sign him we can forget signing a decent striker in the next few years.

Typical Arsenal, looks like another Giroud or Wellbeck quality wise.

Pretty much, at this stage, when you're expecting nothing anyway, it's a bonus

[Goonermerree]

Not thrilled with this signing, panic buy written all over it, he's 27 with an average goal record and if we sign him we can forget signing a decent striker in the next few years.

Typical Arsenal, looks like another Giroud or Wellbeck quality wise.

That's what annoys me, we rarely pay the 'big' money for someone half decent, but waste the same amount on a few players of limited quality who add very little to the team. Just buy the class in the first place, other payers want to play with the best, we could then attract other, better players. Not to mention the success we could achieve attracting better players too.

[Özim]

Pretty much, at this stage, when you're expecting nothing anyway, it's a bonus

Yeah a bonus, sadly that'll be the end of our chances of signing a top quality striker for years.

[Özim]

That's what annoys me, we rarely pay the 'big' money for someone half decent, but waste the same amount on a few players of limited quality who add very little to the team. Just buy the class in the first place, other payers want to play with the best, we could then attract other, better players. Not to mention the success we could achieve attracting better players too.

Totally agree.

[Kano]

Not thrilled with this signing, panic buy written all over it, he's 27 with an average goal record and if we sign him we can forget signing a decent striker in the next few years.

Typical Arsenal, looks like another Giroud or Wellbeck quality wise.

If we have two players that can score 15+ potentially then that surely is better than having one. You would hope that if one hits a wall and doesn't score, the other one can step in and carry that on. Whether or not that is this guy, it remains to be seen. Either way, as long as he has an Arsenal shirt on he deserves our support to prove himself. This is where we are now, whether we like it or not.

[Goonermerree]

If we have two players that can score 15+ potentially then that surely is better than having one. You would hope that if one hits a wall and doesn't score, the other one can step in and carry that on. Whether or not that is this guy, it remains to be seen. Either way, as long as he has an Arsenal shirt on he deserves our support to prove himself. This is where we are now, whether we like it or not.

I always support the team.Every game when Walcott starts I will him to reach the dizzy heights that I expected of him ten years ago. I always cheer Giroud on, but, when they fluff up, I get mad at them.

[Kano]

I always support the team.Every game when Walcott starts I will him to reach the dizzy heights that I expected of him ten years ago. I always cheer Giroud on, but, when they fluff up, I get mad at them.

I don't doubt that for a second. Most fans are the same too. It's the maddening hope that keeps us coming back for more.

[Goonermerree]

I don't doubt that for a second. Most fans are the same too. It's the maddening hope that keeps us coming back for more.

It is difficult with Giroud though, when you see him at matches, and not just the tv camera following the ball, I've seen him not move for a ball unless it was within 2 metres of him. I think Walcott has got to a point where he just tries too hard.

[Özim]

If we have two players that can score 15+ potentially then that surely is better than having one. You would hope that if one hits a wall and doesn't score, the other one can step in and carry that on. Whether or not that is this guy, it remains to be seen. Either way, as long as he has an Arsenal shirt on he deserves our support to prove himself. This is where we are now, whether we like it or not.

What bothers me is we come up with these quick fixes, time after time rather than biting the bullet and signing quality, inevitably we end up paying the price and end up being stuck with journeyman for years, just sick of this, Giroud, Wellbeck now potentially this guy, we haven't had a decent striker since 2012!

[Goonermerree]

I don't know how good El Nenny will be for us, but on and off the ball, he works his socks off. You can't ask for more.

[Kano]

What bothers me is we come up with these quick fixes, time after time rather than biting the bullet and signing quality, inevitably we end up paying the price and end up being stuck with journeyman for years, just sick of this, Giroud, Wellbeck now potentially this guy, we haven't had a decent striker since 2012!

It bothers nearly all of us but what other option is there right now if you want to actively support the team? We can complain forever and drive ourselves mad on a message board or give the guy a go and hope. That's all there is. We all know what we would've preferred but this is it for the short term, if Wenger was to leave at the end of the season. You have your thoughts about that, I have mine, neither of us know definitively if he will stay or go. All we can do is deal with the now. When something in life fucks up that is out of our control, you can either knuckle down and swallow it for the time being or make life ten times harder when there is nothing you can do to change it in the meantime. The only other option is to walk away but that is even more difficult to do more often than not.