Summer Transfer Speculation and Shit

[Niall_Quinn]

What makes people think Wenger will pay for Draxler in the summer when he wouldn't pay this jan? Anything but a done deal.

[Ollie the Optimist]

What makes people think Wenger will pay for Draxler in the summer when he wouldn't pay this jan? Anything but a done deal.

because shalke have admitted they rejected the bids as they didn't want to sell. however in the summer his release clause becomes active so they can't do anything. not that it means Arsene will pay it straight away, but he tried this january and shalke said no, not him refusing to pay

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Not sure anyone is certain we will sign him.....

[fakeyank]

How would people feel about Loic Remy comming here in the summer? Been reading rumours of him to join us in the summer. He's been a 1-in-2 striker in the premier league for QPR/Newcastle (Giroud is 1-in-3 for us :s), so no doubt he would be able to raise that to another level at our club with the chances we're creating, is alot better match with Özil aswell. In France he scored quite a bit of goals despite being used mainly on the wings.

:gp:

I agree with you Jonas!! :O

[Thierrymon]

I don't see Remy as much of an upgrade on Podolski. Wouldn't say no to him, but I think we should set our sights higher.

[AFC Leveller]

The Pod's goals/games ratio is more than decent so its surprising that the manager hasnt played him much recently. With Ozil this season a regular in the hole, it has meant that Santi is played out wide and the poor Pod bench warms.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

We want Sagna, according to two random Italian journalists :lol:

[selassie]

I don't see Remy as much of an upgrade on Podolski. Wouldn't say no to him, but I think we should set our sights higher.

Yep me too. Remy would be great to have as a squad player but we should be aiming much higher than him for our starting striker.

[JonasTC]

We want Sagna, according to two random Italian journalists :lol:

Well you're financial guys are crazy enough to pay Suarez the best salary in the league, so wouldnt surprise me if you offered a 31yr old right back a silly contract aswell

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Well you're financial guys are crazy enough to pay Suarez the best salary in the league, so wouldnt surprise me if you offered a 31yr old right back a silly contract aswell

Well I highly doubt he is the best paid player in the league. His salary only gets bumped up to its highest (~£200k) from next season, at which point we'll either be in the the CL (kerching!) or he'll be off. Even then he probably wouldn't be highest paid, what with the likes of Yaya, Aguero and Van Persie. And that discounts the current Rooney negotiations, which if the BBC are accurate with their reports blasts Suarez' supposed wage out the water.

In any case he's one of if not the best player in the league, so his pay will reflect that.

[JonasTC]

Well I highly doubt he is the best paid player in the league. His salary only gets bumped up to its highest (~£200k) from next season, at which point we'll either be in the the CL (kerching!) or he'll be off. Even then he probably wouldn't be highest paid, what with the likes of Yaya, Aguero and Van Persie. And that discounts the current Rooney negotiations, which if the BBC are accurate with their reports blasts Suarez' supposed wage out the water.

In any case he's one of if not the best player in the league, so his pay will reflect that.

He might be the best, but your club havent seen european games in years, which still doesnt guarantee enough money and then try to compete on the salary with the silly money clubs, that is just ridicoulous.

So i'll say again, it wouldnt surprise me if you offered Sagna a silly contract, seeing the reckless behavour of your financial staff.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

:blink:

Thank you for your interest in our affairs.

[Xhaka Can’t]

I don't see how Liverpool could possibly arrived at a better deal with Suarez.

[Globalgunner]

He might be the best, but your club havent seen european games in years, which still doesnt guarantee enough money and then try to compete on the salary with the silly money clubs, that is just ridicoulous.

So i'll say again, it wouldnt surprise me if you offered Sagna a silly contract, seeing the reckless behavour of your financial staff.
Don't see where we can get off preaching financial sermons to other clubs. We have our own recent history of paying ridiculous salaries to many who don't merit it and I include Wenger in that list

[JonasTC]

Don't see where we can get off preaching financial sermons to other clubs. We have our own recent history of paying ridiculous salaries to many who don't merit it and I include Wenger in that list

We're one of the few top teams in the world who actually makes money, i think we can preach to everybody how to be financial responsible :)

[JonasTC]

:blink:

Thank you for your interest in our affairs.

Bit ironic of you to say that, considering you're active on an arsenal forum :)

[selassie]

Bit ironic of you to say that, considering you're active on an arsenal forum :)

:clap: We love you really Jonas

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Bit ironic of you to say that, considering you're active on an arsenal forum :)

That was the joke.

Seriously though, how is having your best player, one significantly better than anyone else in your team, sign a new contract considered reckless? The easiest way we're ever going to get into the CL with any sort of regularity is by keeping our best players. And if we don't make CL then he leaves anyway, having not paid him a comparatively insane amount.

We're not competing with the likes of City because we've got one player on a very high wage. They have 5,6,7,8+ on this kind of money. Even increasing his wage from say, £120k/week to £200k/week is about £4m which for a PL club is the sum total of fuck all.

[JonasTC]

That was the joke.

Seriously though, how is having your best player, one significantly better than anyone else in your team, sign a new contract considered reckless? The easiest way we're ever going to get into the CL with any sort of regularity is by keeping our best players. And if we don't make CL then he leaves anyway, having not paid him a comparatively insane amount.

I agree with having him on the best contract, but paying him that much is dangerous for non-silly money clubs, what about new signings if or when Suarez leaves? They want big contracts aswell, Sturridge probably wants to be paid up there aswell seeing as his striker partner is getting more than double and so on, if u understand what i mean?

[Niall_Quinn]

200K for Suarez? If the hype machine Shrek is getting £300K then Suarez is worth £3mill a day. If Liverpool lose his goals they are mid table. Exactly the same way as it isn't with us and Giroud. £200K to keep him there is the price. We're paying more for Giroud in the terms of results being delivered.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I agree with having him on the best contract, but paying him that much is dangerous for non-silly money clubs, what about new signings if or when Suarez leaves? They want big contracts aswell, Sturridge probably wants to be paid up there aswell seeing as his striker partner is getting more than double and so on, if u understand what i mean?

At the risk of turning this into RAWK (;)) by all accounts we're re-jigging our wage bill. Our best players get paid at the top of the pay scale, the players who do consistently well get raises and the ones not up to scratch get told to sod off. Seems logical, but sadly for us in recent years hasn't been followed.
Couple that with us being tighter than a badger's arse since the Kenny/Comolli debacle and making an effort to get the big wages off the bill and it's hardly reckless. Not least our preference for youth and reticence to buy older players... yes Kolo but he's working for food.
If Sturridge keeps on banging in the goals consistently then his pay will reflect that and if that were the case he'd probably be worth it. If/when Suarez leaves we'll be in the same situation whatever we pay him. If players aren't worth the pay rise then they can kick and scream all they like in the knowledge any move they make will be at best sideways.

We have good revenues; decent matchday income, very good commercial income and the behemoth that is PL TV money. We're not going to do a Leeds because of it, hence why 'reckless' etc is too strong a description. Employing Mark Hughes and signing 15 pub teamers is reckless. Having one of the best players in the world play for you when you aren't currently one of the biggest clubs is a coup. Having him do so [for however long] after last summer is a miracle.

[Heisenberg]

Arsenal shopping list for the summer

I was thinking today a bit about what we need to do in the summer to strengthen and press on. Even if we end the season with a trophy, we can and ought to improve in certain areas. Looking at the squad, there are areas where we're stronger than others and areas where we can reasonably anticipate players moving on.

For example:

Goalkeeper
Fabianski isn't a bad back up but he may be off in the summer. In fact he might have said he would be. I can't really blame him, we signed him fairly young and he will want to be playing regularly. Viviano is only on a loan. So we will need some new back up goalkeepers. I'm not sure there's anyone we're likely to be in for who would be better than Szczesny, so this is an area we may need to sign in because of departures.

Defence
Vermaelen will probably leave in the summer. This means we will need a new back up centre back. We will probably need another back up centre half, unless a returning loanee is good enough for that role, as we have gone the season basically with only Vermaelen to rely on, and he has been injured himself of late.

We may also want a right back depending on how Sagna's contract negotiations pan out. He has had a good season and may have a couple more left in him, so ideally he'll sign a new deal. But if he doesn't, I don't think Jenkinson is ready, he'd be too much of a step back even if he does develop later. So we'd need a replacement for Sagna.

Midfield
We're pretty much alright here. We have a lot of options.

Forward
So, the players we have that the Arsenal site considers forwards are:

Podolski
Giroud
Walcott
Oxlade-Chamberlain
Sanogo
Bendtner
Miyaichi
Gnabry

Now, to thin the list out: my first observation is that Park is not even on the list anymore, so there we go. Second, I think Miyaichi's days may be numbered since he has barely featured. Furthermore I think Bendtner will be off, having only remained here as we could not get Ba in. I would not really consider Gnabry or Oxlade-Chamberlain outright forwards because, while they have played a lot on the wings, they have not featured strictly upfront. I don't know where Gnabry will develop but Ox seems destined to move in the centre and has played there.

So that leaves us with Podolski, Giroud, Walcott and Sanogo. Podolski is good and I hope we keep him but he hasn't performed that well when given the sole striker role. Walcott has played through the middle competently but is probably best deployed on the right making runs in and behind. Sanogo remains raw and unproven with uncertainty over his long term fitness. Which leaves us with Giroud, who tries hard, does okay and is generally loveable ("heart attack!"). However, unfortunately for dear Olivier, we probably want someone better and more rounded to be our target man. So that means we will want to get in a top quality striker and hopefully retain Giroud as a back up.

[IBK]

Arsenal shopping list for the summer

I was thinking today a bit about what we need to do in the summer to strengthen and press on. Even if we end the season with a trophy, we can and ought to improve in certain areas. Looking at the squad, there are areas where we're stronger than others and areas where we can reasonably anticipate players moving on.

For example:

Goalkeeper
Fabianski isn't a bad back up but he may be off in the summer. In fact he might have said he would be. I can't really blame him, we signed him fairly young and he will want to be playing regularly. Viviano is only on a loan. So we will need some new back up goalkeepers. I'm not sure there's anyone we're likely to be in for who would be better than Szczesny, so this is an area we may need to sign in because of departures.

Defence
Vermaelen will probably leave in the summer. This means we will need a new back up centre back. We will probably need another back up centre half, unless a returning loanee is good enough for that role, as we have gone the season basically with only Vermaelen to rely on, and he has been injured himself of late.

We may also want a right back depending on how Sagna's contract negotiations pan out. He has had a good season and may have a couple more left in him, so ideally he'll sign a new deal. But if he doesn't, I don't think Jenkinson is ready, he'd be too much of a step back even if he does develop later. So we'd need a replacement for Sagna.

Midfield
We're pretty much alright here. We have a lot of options.

Forward
So, the players we have that the Arsenal site considers forwards are:

Podolski
Giroud
Walcott
Oxlade-Chamberlain
Sanogo
Bendtner
Miyaichi
Gnabry

Now, to thin the list out: my first observation is that Park is not even on the list anymore, so there we go. Second, I think Miyaichi's days may be numbered since he has barely featured. Furthermore I think Bendtner will be off, having only remained here as we could not get Ba in. I would not really consider Gnabry or Oxlade-Chamberlain outright forwards because, while they have played a lot on the wings, they have not featured strictly upfront. I don't know where Gnabry will develop but Ox seems destined to move in the centre and has played there.

So that leaves us with Podolski, Giroud, Walcott and Sanogo. Podolski is good and I hope we keep him but he hasn't performed that well when given the sole striker role. Walcott has played through the middle competently but is probably best deployed on the right making runs in and behind. Sanogo remains raw and unproven with uncertainty over his long term fitness. Which leaves us with Giroud, who tries hard, does okay and is generally loveable ("heart attack!"). However, unfortunately for dear Olivier, we probably want someone better and more rounded to be our target man. So that means we will want to get in a top quality striker and hopefully retain Giroud as a back up.

We can't keep on winging it without proper defensive back up, and Wenger better have a plan to address Sagna and Vermaelen if he leaves - cos ain't nothing inside the squad to fill the gaps. I'd like to think that last Summers soap opera tells Wenger that he needs a striler too - but the fact he considers Sanogo to be ready to play CL leaves me nervous....

[Penguin]

Our second choice fullbacks are well under par too. Jenkinson is awful and Monreal is a disaster defensively. I'm more disappointed in Nacho bec`use I e|pected more considering he's a Spanish international. I know it%s hard to find players who can stay on the bench for a long time without kicking up a fuss but whats the point if they end up costing us goals and points when they do play?

[AFC Leveller]

Leverkusen a

[JonasTC]

Y

[selassie]

We can't keep on winging it without proper defensive back up, and Wenger better have a plan to address Sagna and Vermaelen if he leaves - cos ain't nothing inside the squad to fill the gaps. I'd like to think that last Summers soap opera tells Wenger that he needs a striler too - but the fact he considers Sanogo to be ready to play CL leaves me nervous....

I'll be honest, this summer really worries me. Whilst replacing Sagna and Vermaelen isn't an impossible task, Wenger really needs to do it properly and by that I mean spending money. We don't need to spend Chelsea/City type money on replacements but I would hope that Wenger replaces them accordingly/like for like with established international players.

Add to that, we definitely need a top class Striker. A Holding Midfielder would be nice too, but I think Wenger will stick with Arteta and Flamini.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

We bid for Bender so I would surmise that we will be looking for a DCM again. The problem is, Wenger will probably be willing to go into the next season without signing one, even though it is a target area.

I don't think we will lose both Vermaelen and Sagna. Perhaps one but probably not both. If we do sign a right back, I really hope we go for a marauding one that has the ability to be lethal going forward.

[AKBapologist]

We need a CDM, Striker and a Winger imo. Right Back if sagna goes and I'm not too confident in Nacho tbh.

[Özim]

Rosicky is staying it seems, I'm torn though because I like to see him in the team as he really adds pace to our attacks, but on the flip side he's injured a lot and thus we're carrying someone injury prone which does impact our chances with the way Wenger plays the squad game.

IMO we need a striker, CDM, right back if Sagna leaves and CB is Vermaelen leaves. A pacey winger would also be useful as we don't really have anyone to stick on the wing and help our counters.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Chamberlain and Gnabry?

[Özim]

Chamberlain and Gnabry?

I'm not sure either are wingers, though Oxo is brilliant, isn't Gnabry a central player again?

I think we have too many central midfielders though, it would be tempting to cull a few to bring in what we need and have a more balanced squad.


We've got an abundance of these central players and yet are short in a few other areas (up front is ridiculous to be honest), it would be good to have players playing in their natural positions rather than having to stick them out wide.

[selassie]

We bid for Bender so I would surmise that we will be looking for a DCM again. The problem is, Wenger will probably be willing to go into the next season without signing one, even though it is a target area.

I don't think we will lose both Vermaelen and Sagna. Perhaps one but probably not both. If we do sign a right back, I really hope we go for a marauding one that has the ability to be lethal going forward.

IIRC, didn't we bid for Bender before we got Flams on a free?

I hope so, I would prefer to keep Sagna TBH, I think he has had a very good season, I feel we could get at least another good season out of him. I think he's gone though.

[Özim]

IIRC, didn't we bid for Bender before we got Flams on a free?

I hope so, I would prefer to keep Sagna TBH, I think he has had a very good season, I feel we could get at least another good season out of him. I think he's gone though.

I doubt Sagna will stick around tbh, it's rare for a player to leave it this long before signing up, being a free agent he'll probably get some lucrative offers.

[selassie]

I doubt Sagna will stick around tbh, it's rare for a player to leave it this long before signing up, being a free agent he'll probably get some lucrative offers.

Yeah totally agree Zim. Its looking increasingly likely that he's a goner, all the usual soundbites are coming out of Sagna's camp, "we moved to slowly to offer contract", "wage is too low", blah blah blah

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/arsenal-transfer-news-bacary-sagna-3179746

I wonder if we will replace him properly.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

IIRC, didn't we bid for Bender before we got Flams on a free?

I hope so, I would prefer to keep Sagna TBH, I think he has had a very good season, I feel we could get at least another good season out of him. I think he's gone though.

We did, but we ended up with Flamini as a matter of expediency, rather than any concerted plan and I'm not sure Wenger is satisfied that he is the long term solution. There is evidence for that too as he seems to prefer Arteta who is a few years older himself.

I'd love to keep Sagna and I'm not sure how far his current wages are from 100k a week (that's the reported figure he wants) but I would be inclined to pay it for his years of consistent service. I didn't want to lose him last season when he was getting hammered and I sure as hell don't want to lose him now.

Like many other though, I fear the impasse will remain... The club will stick their heels in and so will he as players are increasingly doing these days. We were happy to pay Podolski 100k a week and equally happy for him to watch most games from the bench.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

On Chamberlain and Gnabry I think that they are ostensibly wide players, but Wenger insists they will eventually be central players and fundamentally are. However that pending 'eventually' may never actually come as it did not with Walcott. Needs must, the game evolves, the players and clubs should follow suit within reason.

We have so many central players as you say that somebody has to play wide.... One might argue the pair of them (who have a very similar skill sets) are better wide players than they are central midfield players at this moment in time / their careers.

Otherwise we effectively have OxO, Gnabry, Ramsey, Rosicky, Wilshere, Ozil, Cazorla, Arteta, Flamini....... and that is without respectfully including Diaby.

[Zerlathon]

To be brutally honest, I believe that Sagna has more than warranted a deal worth ~£100k p/wk.

Over the seasons, he has been 1 of our (if not the) most consistent Players. Asking for the going rate for Players of his calibre is hardly like asking for the ridiculously over inflated wages that the likes of Rooney ask for. He is easily regarded as an integral part of the team and still has a good couple of seasons left in him at the top level.

From a personal perspective, I would find it difficult (if I were in his position), to know that there were fellow Players earning substantially more yet not spending nearly as much time on the pitch as he is:

Verminator - earns 70k p/wk
Podolski - earns over £100k p/wk

Don't get me wrong, I know that this isn't exactly the fault of the Players in the example... But you get the idea of where I'm coming from (with regards to how Sagna would view things).

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

We lose him, we lose an experienced, moreover consistent player and one that can cover right back AND centre back at a high level. It would be a hugely big deal to let him go.

[JonasTC]

Ye we might lose an experienced and consistent player, but he if true, he got offers from Galatasary (footballers hardly pays taxes there) and silly-money clubs and we cant compete with that. He's 31 and, if true, we're offering him 2 years with a good salary, if thats not good enough, he can just fuck off.

Personally i dont care if he leaves, i see him as a fast central defender, deployed on the right back position. He's really good defensively, but he offer us almost nothing offensively like we see with Gibbs and Monreal and i'd rather want that, idealy i want a non-injured Gibbs clone for right back.

[Syn]

Ye we might lose an experienced and consistent player, but he if true, he got offers from Galatasary (footballers hardly pays taxes there) and silly-money clubs and we cant compete with that. He's 31 and, if true, we're offering him 2 years with a good salary, if thats not good enough, he can just fuck off.

Personally i dont care if he leaves, i see him as a fast central defender, deployed on the right back position. He's really good defensively, but he offer us almost nothing offensively like we see with Gibbs and Monreal and i'd rather want that, idealy i want a non-injured Gibbs clone for right back.

This season he has been very good going forward. If Giroud was better, he'd have at least 4 more goals in the big matches. Can recall big misses from Sagna's crossing against Chelsea and Man Utd. But in any case, first and foremost defenders have to be able to defend well. Would happily take a LB equivalent of Sagna over Gibbs and Monreal.

But I agree that if we're offering a good contract and he wants a mega money move (or just a change) to PSG or something then he has earned it and there's not much we can do.

[saintnickle]

We did, but we ended up with Flamini as a matter of expediency, rather than any concerted plan and I'm not sure Wenger is satisfied that he is the long term solution. There is evidence for that too as he seems to prefer Arteta who is a few years older himself.

I'd love to keep Sagna and I'm not sure how far his current wages are from 100k a week (that's the reported figure he wants) but I would be inclined to pay it for his years of consistent service. I didn't want to lose him last season when he was getting hammered and I sure as hell don't want to lose him now.

Like many other though, I fear the impasse will remain... The club will stick their heels in and so will he as players are increasingly doing these days. We were happy to pay Podolski 100k a week and equally happy for him to watch most games from the bench.

And we are happy to give Wenger a nice £20 grand a week payrise as well.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Jonas strikes again. :doh:

[BOBN]

idealy i want a non-injured Gibbs clone for right back.
Who even does this? Two attacking full-backs. Do this and we'll have a shit defence to go with our shit attack.

Letting Sagna go would be Wengers biggest error since penny-pinching on the Cabaye deal only to spend quadruple on an inferior player.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Ye we might lose an experienced and consistent player, but he if true, he got offers from Galatasary (footballers hardly pays taxes there) and silly-money clubs and we cant compete with that. He's 31 and, if true, we're offering him 2 years with a good salary, if thats not good enough, he can just fuck off.

Personally i dont care if he leaves, i see him as a fast central defender, deployed on the right back position. He's really good defensively, but he offer us almost nothing offensively like we see with Gibbs and Monreal and i'd rather want that, idealy i want a non-injured Gibbs clone for right back.

Wow. I don't even know where to begin...

[Özim]

Giroud is on 100k apparently, Sagna deserves that IMO.

It would cost us a lot to replace him and frankly we need to spend money on other areas.

[Marc Overmars]

I'd like him to stay and I think it's in the best interests of the team that he does, but we could probably get a reasonable replacement for half the cost (not fucking Jenkinson), I don't think full back is the most influential area of a team so I can see why the club have been hesitant to pay up. He's 31 now and been here for 7 years, I would understand if he fancies a change or if he's thinking beyond his career and just wants to secure himself further financially, as it might be his last chance to get a big contract and play at a high level.

[selassie]

Ye we might lose an experienced and consistent player, but he if true, he got offers from Galatasary (footballers hardly pays taxes there) and silly-money clubs and we cant compete with that. He's 31 and, if true, we're offering him 2 years with a good salary, if thats not good enough, he can just fuck off.

Personally i dont care if he leaves, i see him as a fast central defender, deployed on the right back position. He's really good defensively, but he offer us almost nothing offensively like we see with Gibbs and Monreal and i'd rather want that, idealy i want a non-injured Gibbs clone for right back.

Jonas, one of our biggest issues to date has been allowing our experienced and consistent players to leave and then failing to replace them properly. You should care that he leaves, if history repeats itself and we replace Sagna with Jenkinson then we are significantly downgrading the quality of the team in that position.

Also, how you have come to the conclusion that Sagna is a fast central defender deployed as a right back? WTF are you talking about?!!!! He's been a top class right back for many a year, first choice for both Club and Country. You believe he offers nothing offensively? LOL...check out his stats against Gibbs or Monreal, he comfortably outperforms both of them.

[selassie]

Giroud is on 100k apparently, Sagna deserves that IMO.

It would cost us a lot to replace him and frankly we need to spend money on other areas.

Yep, that's how I feel.

What worries me is that we'll end up penny pinching all over the place if the likes of Sagna, Vermaelen & Podolski leave.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Maybe because he isn't in the vein of the modern day marauding full back like like Dani Alves, his productivity is undervalued.... but I think the 'well he can just fuck off' attitude is quite a needlessly bitter view to take. Even if we do end up parting company.

I like the idea of proper professionals who've been consistent and a hard as nails guy like Sagna being here for absolutely as long as possible too. I don't like the idea of us having to recruit in several positions to take the onus off buying the CF which is what we desperately need.

[Marc Overmars]

Yep, that's how I feel.

What worries me is that we'll end up penny pinching all over the place if the likes of Sagna, Vermaelen & Podolski leave.

Just like transfer fees, wages have also been inflated and essentially reclassified. 100k is probably par for the course now and means as much as 50k did 10 years ago. Don't forget the players are also well aware of our new sponsorship deals and increased revenue stream, of course they're going to want a slice of it.

It's up to the club to strike up a balance between prudence and just going with the flow.

[I am invisible]

Sagna's well worth the £100k, if you ask me - the fact that he's the best player in his position in the league should be enough on its own to guarantee him big boy wages, but when you consider that he can also play as a CB to very high standard (and won't complain about being 3rd or 4th choice in that area) then it looks like a pretty good deal for all...

[Marc Overmars]

Sagna's well worth the £100k, if you ask me - the fact that he's the best player in his position in the league should be enough on its own to guarantee him big boy wages, but when you consider that he can also play as a CB to very high standard (and won't complain about being 3rd or 4th choice in that area) then it looks like a pretty good deal for all...

Zabaleta is better tbh.

[selassie]

Just like transfer fees, wages have also been inflated and essentially reclassified. 100k is probably par for the course now and means as much as 50k did 10 years ago. Don't forget the players are also well aware of our new sponsorship deals and increased revenue stream, of course they're going to want a slice of it.

It's up to the club to strike up a balance between prudence and just going with the flow.

yep

[Fist of Lehmann]

One of our best and most consistent performers this season, and that goes for pretty much every season apart from the double leg break one.

Furthermore, he's a two-for-one. Three-for-one if you count his little stint at LB. Without that, or a Song, someone who can fill in for a game or two, you can't run 3 CBs without a pretty big risk.

I just think he's decided it's time for one last move. And you couldn't begrudge him that, he's been loyal and on the pitch he gives you everything.

That leaves us needing to replace. 14-15 with Jenks+Bellerin? Not for me.

Fortunately, despite their importance in the modern game, fullback is probably the cheapest position to recruit. Provided you're not bidding for Lahm or Dani Alves or buying from a rival Premiership club, you should be able to get pretty good value.

I'd rather he stayed but hey, shit happen.

[I am invisible]

Zabaleta is better tbh.
Even if he is, you're still still talking in the top two in his position...

[fakeyank]

Wow. I don't even know where to begin...

Dont bother! :lol:

He thinks Kim Kallstrom was the right player to get in the Jan transfer window and that Bendtner (yes, you heard right- Bendtner) is a better player than Berbatov! :haha:

[milla]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11890/9184538/transfer-news-schalkes-julian-draxler-wont-rule-out-bayern-munich-move


"I extended my contract because I feel fine here and the long-term deal shows the appreciation and popularity I enjoy at Schalke.

"It's no secret that I have a get-out clause in the contract and so from year to year, the possibility exists, at least to think about what is best for my development.

"Of course, the clause leaves a lot of room for speculation, but it is also good for both sides.

"It's good for Schalke because the club does not have to let go of me on the cheap and, in their worst-case scenario, they would still get a lot of money for me.

"And for me it's good because I can make my own decision if a club decides to pay 45 million euros for me and I want a new challenge."

45 million Euro is a bit steep isn't it? :coffee:

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I was more interested in the bit before;

"Look at what happened with Manuel Neuer. He was 100 per cent convinced that he would never join FC Bayern but, after having played as a pro for five years, time made him change his opinion.

"I also can't say what I will think in five or six or maybe even 10 years.

"And when you rule something out entirely and you end up playing where most people don't want you to be, the outcry is huge."

The young midfielder is as yet undecided where his future lies but believes the exit clause in his contract is a win-win situation for both himself and Schalke.


Although it's hardly a surprise he is open minded to Bayern.....

[JonasTC]

I think people is misunderstanding my "then he can just fuck off", if he is holding us for ransom, talking with the silly money clubs and wants us to compete with them and doesnt have any problem leaving the club he has stayed at for 7 years for 10k extra in his already filled bank account, then he's worth nothing to me and i'll stick to my "fuck off". Just because we gave Poldi or Giroud wrong contracts and there are criminals in other clubs paying out silly money, doesnt mean we should give everybody 100k+ contracts. Sagna is 31 and his form is only going one way from now on and thats down, in a perfect scenario we would keep him over the next couple of years alongside a new exciting young back (im not sure i believe in Jenkinson tho').

I'm sticking to my believe that Sagna's biggest plus is his deffensive stats and that i'd rather want a fullback/wingback who's better offensively, just like Barca and Bayern are doing, to whoever said "LOOOL WHO DOES THAT!?" (BOBN for example) and to Fakeyank, yes i still believe Kim Kallstrom at the time was the best we could get in, taking in all considerations and yes it was a gamble, but you know who else agrees with me? Arsene Wenger, one of the greatest managers in the world and yes i do also still believe that Bendtner is atleast as good as Berbatov at this stage of his career and it would have been retarded getting him in, he cant even get playing time for Monaco, despite them playing with 2 strikers and their only good striker injuried :)

[selassie]

I think people is misunderstanding my "then he can just fuck off", if he is holding us for ransom, talking with the silly money clubs and wants us to compete with them and doesnt have any problem leaving the club he has stayed at for 7 years for 10k extra in his already filled bank account, then he's worth nothing to me and i'll stick to my "fuck off". Just because we gave Poldi or Giroud wrong contracts and there are criminals in other clubs paying out silly money, doesnt mean we should give everybody 100k+ contracts. Sagna is 31 and his form is only going one way from now on and thats down, in a perfect scenario we would keep him over the next couple of years alongside a new exciting young back (im not sure i believe in Jenkinson tho').

I'm sticking to my believe that Sagna's biggest plus is his deffensive stats and that i'd rather want a fullback/wingback who's better offensively, just like Barca and Bayern are doing, to whoever said "LOOOL WHO DOES THAT!?" (BOBN for example) and to Fakeyank, yes i still believe Kim Kallstrom at the time was the best we could get in, taking in all considerations and yes it was a gamble, but you know who else agrees with me? Arsene Wenger, one of the greatest managers in the world and yes i do also still believe that Bendtner is atleast as good as Berbatov at this stage of his career and it would have been retarded getting him in, he cant even get playing time for Monaco, despite them playing with 2 strikers and their only good striker injuried :)

Not misunderstanding you, just not agreeing with you. The issue with letting Sagna go is that there really aren't many if any right backs that are obtainable who are an improvement on him. Off the top of my head the only one who I feel would be comparable and possibly obtainable is Pisczek at Dortmund, he wouldn't come cheap though.

There are plenty of great younger developing talents like Coleman at Everton, Clyne at Southamption, in France there is a great young right back breaking through called Serge Aurier who plays for Toulouse. They won't come cheap though and can you really see Arsene paying the market rate for them?

Back onto Sagna, he basically wants paying the market rate for a top quality established international full back, I honestly don't think demands of 100k per week are excessive. As stated by MO, 100k per week is now the going rate for an established player, elite players command 150-300k per week.

Kim Kallstrom the best we could get in at the time? He's injured for christ sake! Arsene even admitted he was aware of his back problem but took a gamble!!!

You honestly think Bendtner is as good as Berbatov?! How have you come to this conclusion? Just curious.

[I am invisible]

I don't know, I think you could pick up a good RB without too much hassle or expense (French clubs certainly seem to be able to churn them out at will!) - I just don't see why this needs to be an either/or decision? Ideal scenario for me: bring in a promising, long-term successor for Sagna at RB if we can, and maybe keep Sagna as first choice to start with, but also confirm him as one of our 4 CB options too, ensuring they'll both get plenty of games. Then, as Sagna gets further into his 30s, we can make the new guy first-choice, and start using Sagna more as full-time, quality/experienced cover right across the back line...

[selassie]

I don't know, I think you could pick up a good RB without too much hassle or expense (French clubs certainly seem to be able to churn them out at will!) - I just don't see why this needs to be an either/or decision? Ideal scenario for me: bring in a promising, long-term successor for Sagna at RB if we can, and maybe keep Sagna as first choice to start with, but also confirm him as one of our 4 CB options too, ensuring they'll both get plenty of games. Then, as Sagna gets further into his 30s, we can make the new guy first-choice, and start using Sagna more as full-time, quality/experienced cover right across the back line...

I agree, I think we need a new right back regardless.

[I am invisible]

My biggest concern here is that Sagna has already made up his mind to go, and that there's not actually much we can do about it, even if we do stump up the cash. In which case (and depending on what happens with Vermaelen, and how highly you rate Jenks) we could need between 1-2 new RBs and 1-2 new CBs this summer?! Oh, and maybe 1-2 GKs too, so potentially anything between 3-6 new defensive players!

Not that they all have to be big names signed for big money - half of those players would be understudies in their respective positions, so I'm happy to go down the youth / unknown route with them - it's just the time more than anything else. We don't exactly have the greatest track record when it comes to getting deals done quickly, and even if we can manage it, there's a secondary time concern in terms of how long it will take that many new players in one area to gel.

On the other hand, if we can persuade Sagna to stay then we may only need to do about half that...

[selassie]

My biggest concern here is that Sagna has already made up his mind to go, and that there's not actually much we can do about it, even if we do stump up the cash. In which case (and depending on what happens with Vermaelen, and how highly you rate Jenks) we could need between 1-2 new RBs and 1-2 new CBs this summer?! Oh, and maybe 1-2 GKs too, so potentially anything between 3-6 new defensive players!

Not that they all have to be big names signed for big money - half of those players would be understudies in their respective positions, so I'm happy to go down the youth / unknown route with them - it's just the time more than anything else. We don't exactly have the greatest track record when it comes to getting deals done quickly, and even if we can manage it, there's a secondary time concern in terms of how long it will take that many new players in one area to gel.

On the other hand, if we can persuade Sagna to stay then we may only need to do about half that...

That's pretty much my biggest concern too. I think if Sagna leaves which it is looking likely then he will need to be replaced with a good quality player. I admire Jenks determination and loyalty but he is nowhere near ready yet. The boy should not be developed by game time in the first XI, it's not necessary.

Of course understudies do not have to be big names but they most certainly have to be of a good standard. If Vermaelen leaves for example, we will most definitely need to replace him as we don't currently have an obvious prospects ready to promote from within.

This summer is going to be quite interesting regarding the comings and goings, though past history tells us we'll probably do the bare minimum.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

That is quite a frightening thought....having to sign a bunch of defenders.....and that's without even mentioning a DCM, CF and possibly a wide player. May end up giving ourselves just way too much to do and precedent tells us we won't fill all the holes.

I wonder how much Miquel who can play left back and centre back is featuring in the managers plans.

[I am invisible]

That's pretty much my biggest concern too. I think if Sagna leaves which it is looking likely then he will need to be replaced with a good quality player. I admire Jenks determination and loyalty but he is nowhere near ready yet. The boy should not be developed by game time in the first XI, it's not necessary.

Of course understudies do not have to be big names but they most certainly have to be of a good standard. If Vermaelen leaves for example, we will most definitely need to replace him as we don't currently have an obvious prospects ready to promote from within.

This summer is going to be quite interesting regarding the comings and goings, though past history tells us we'll probably do the bare minimum.
Well you never know? That's how most summers usually end up, but at least last summer it wasn't for want of trying - two failed bids for Suarez, two for Bender, and a lot of talk over Higuain are testament to that. We just need to get better at actually planning and completing these things.

I agree that it's going to be an interesting summer though. Even without looking at potential replacements for Sagna / Vermaelen / Fabianski, I'd still say it's going to be a very busy period for us. Even if we only need couple of players on the attacking side of things, those players need to be of an exceptional standard, and those deals won't be easy (or quick) to get done. Add the fact that it's a WC year too, and I think we really need to minimize how much work we need to get done - if that means pulling out all the stops to keep Sagna at the club, then I'd say do it.

[I am invisible]

That is quite a frightening thought....having to sign a bunch of defenders.....and that's without even mentioning a DCM, CF and possibly a wide player. May end up giving ourselves just way too much to do and precedent tells us we won't fill all the holes.

I wonder how much Miquel who can play left back and centre back is featuring in the managers plans.

Our best bet might even be to persuade Vermaelen to stay as well? Then we'd only really need a good RB and a back-up keeper, and we could maybe keep everyone happy (and fresh!) by pairing Sagna with Vermaelen on a regular basis at CB? You never know - they might even strike up a decent partnership of their own, given time?

[fakeyank]

Losing Sagna will be one of the worst blows for us. He is not only one of the most consistent players but he is also the most experienced in this side, having been here since 2006. He is great at CB and if Kos or Mert were to be injured, he can fill that role easily. While I think, we possibly may get someone to replace him on the pitch (unlikely), what I really care about is the influence of losing someone with that experience in the dressing room.

We have in the last 7-8 years always let go of senior players saying they are shit or good riddance. But you cannot buy experience and you need to be ready to pay up for that. There was a reason why Ferguson held onto Neville, Giggs, Scholes, Rio, well past their primes. I really hope we pay the money or whatever Sagna needs to keep him here.. tired of having to 'bed-in' new players, giving them 1 whole season to understand how we play. When we have a world class player, we should do everything to keep him.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Losing Sagna will be one of the worst blows for us. He is not only one of the most consistent players but he is also the most experienced in this side, having been here since 2006. He is great at CB and if Kos or Mert were to be injured, he can fill that role easily. While I think, we possibly may get someone to replace him on the pitch (unlikely), what I really care about is the influence of losing someone with that experience in the dressing room.

We have in the last 7-8 years always let go of senior players saying they are shit or good riddance. But you cannot buy experience and you need to be ready to pay up for that. There was a reason why Ferguson held onto Neville, Giggs, Scholes, Rio, well past their primes. I really hope we pay the money or whatever Sagna needs to keep him here.. tired of having to 'bed-in' new players, giving them 1 whole season to understand how we play. When we have a world class player, we should do everything to keep him.

This for sure. He's one of the best right backs in the world and losing him would be a massive blow. You can't just easily replace that level of quality and consistency.


Ironically it'll probably work out cheaper paying the extra he wants for a new deal instead of trying to buy a replacement of similar quality. Just give him what he wants Arsene!

[AFC Leveller]

I love Sagna and really hope we keep him. However, if we were to lose him then i think someone like Debuchy would be the perfect replacement. Younger, experienced, very very talented and available (just like every Newcastle player). 12/15m would be enough i think and according to the French press, now that hes best mate (and best man at the wedding) Cabaye has gone, he wants out too.

[JonasTC]

Debuchy is turning 29 before next season, rather get a long term solution like Seamus Coleman, been quite impressed by him, Zabaleta only barely made it ahead of him in team of the year 2013 and alot of "experts" chose him as best RB last season.

Would probably not be asking for anywhere near 100k (he's on a 25k/week according to different articles i could find) and i imagine he's available at a decent prize.

We also have Hector Bellerin who turns 19 in 2 weeks, he's being compared to a Right Back version of Jordi Alba, i guess it would be ideal if we could keep Sagna for another 2 years and then bring this guy up, if he continues his development.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Losing Sagna will be one of the worst blows for us. He is not only one of the most consistent players but he is also the most experienced in this side, having been here since 2006. He is great at CB and if Kos or Mert were to be injured, he can fill that role easily. While I think, we possibly may get someone to replace him on the pitch (unlikely), what I really care about is the influence of losing someone with that experience in the dressing room.

We have in the last 7-8 years always let go of senior players saying they are shit or good riddance. But you cannot buy experience and you need to be ready to pay up for that. There was a reason why Ferguson held onto Neville, Giggs, Scholes, Rio, well past their primes. I really hope we pay the money or whatever Sagna needs to keep him here.. tired of having to 'bed-in' new players, giving them 1 whole season to understand how we play. When we have a world class player, we should do everything to keep him.

Here, here, good sir. :oldboy:


In any case trying to keep Vermaelen, Sagna and even Flappy if he isn't out of contract are sensible moves so we can concentrate on the areas it really matters in this summer. We cannot fail to sign a top CF again.....I don't care of we have to go down to our 50th choice target!

[fakeyank]

Looks like Inter are in for him too..

[selassie]

I wonder how much Miquel who can play left back and centre back is featuring in the managers plans.

I have never really rated Miquel to be honest. Seems to lack pace and isn't the greatest in the air.

[I am invisible]

There's still talk coming out of Spain about Morata, this time as a permanent deal? Anyone actually seen him play that much? Is there a potentially top player in there with a bit of work, or would this be massively disappointing? I've honestly never seen the lad play, so I have no idea what he's all about (other than he's a striker) and what he'd bring to the side...

[I am invisible]

Also a few stories coming out of Spain that we've told Atletico that we're prepared to meet Costa's release clause - probably all horse shit, but at least it's nice horse shit to hear...

[Özim]

Falcoa has told Ibrahimovic, who told Cavani who then told Costa that Falcoa will sign for us in a £55 million pound deal in the summer, all signed an sealed apparently.

[Özim]

There's still talk coming out of Spain about Morata, this time as a permanent deal? Anyone actually seen him play that much? Is there a potentially top player in there with a bit of work, or would this be massively disappointing? I've honestly never seen the lad play, so I have no idea what he's all about (other than he's a striker) and what he'd bring to the side...

Seen him a few times to be honest, don't see what the fuss is all about, seems to miss chances quite a lot, haven't been overly impressed though the Spanish commentators love him.

[I am invisible]

Falcoa has told Ibrahimovic, who told Cavani who then told Costa that Falcoa will sign for us in a £55 million pound deal in the summer, all signed an sealed apparently.
Sounds entirely plausible to me. Who's the next target then? Winger? Central midfielder? RB?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Id be happy for us to sign Balotelli if he went through an intensive course of Electro convulsive therapy in the lull between the world cup and the start of next season.

[I am invisible]

Seen him a few times to be honest, don't see what the fuss is all about, seems to miss chances quite a lot, haven't been overly impressed though the Spanish commentators love him.
To be fair to him, if he's mainly featuring as a bit-part squad player and sub, then he's probably not getting much chance to build any sharpness. Still a bit underwhelming though, even as a rumour...

[I am invisible]

Id be happy for us to sign Balotelli if he went through an intensive course of Electro convulsive therapy in the lull between the world cup and the start of next season.
Is he still a complete nut job these days, or has he grown-up a bit at Milan? Not really followed him that closely since he left City...

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

the guy is incapable of behaving himself so i imagine his antics are just as prominent as they ever were, it's a shame because i think he is a player of genuine quality. I remember when he first joined City, I thought Mourinho was being harsh on him with the things he said when he was at Inter but i think he's spot on....the guy was either hit too much or not enough by his mother growing up.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Id be happy for us to sign Balotelli if he went through an intensive course of Electro convulsive therapy in the lull between the world cup and the start of next season.

By the way he acts it looks like he is going through a treatment of that while he is on the pitch

[I am invisible]

I don't know, he seems to have kept himself out of trouble for a good few months now, maybe even getting on for a year? I don't suppose he'll ever lose that fieriness to his character, but he does seem to be maturing a little bit...

[Penguin]

the guy is incapable of behaving himself so i imagine his antics are just as prominent as they ever were, it's a shame because i think he is a player of genuine quality. I remember when he first joined City, I thought Mourinho was being harsh on him with the things he said when he was at Inter but i think he's spot on....the guy was either hit too much or not enough by his mother growing up.

Indeed, I have never been so irritated watching any other footballer. I don't want to watch a mentally challenged toddler throw his toys of of the pram every week. It was bad enough seeing him on MOTD for Man City, let alone for every Arsenal game.

[AFC Leveller]

Queens Park Rangers manager Harry Redknapp is losing a key ally, with long-time chief scout Ian Broomfield leaving to join Arsenal.
Broomfield, who previously worked with Redknapp at Portsmouth and Tottenham, has stunned his friend by handing in his notice to join the team headed by Steve Rowley.

[adzzzbatch]

Seen him a few times to be honest, don't see what the fuss is all about, seems to miss chances quite a lot, haven't been overly impressed though the Spanish commentators love him.

We also have giroud who can miss there.

[JonasTC]

Arsene Wenger have told some french media, that we've been following Antoine Griezmann for some time.

Would be a great addition to our squad, can play all on both wings, but would probably be used on left wing for us.

[Munchies]

No chance, he'd rather get Draxler and play him on the left where he'll be useless.

Also
Sagna has told Arsenal that he will be leaving in the summer [Metro]

[JonasTC]

Also (yesterday)
Sagna told Mirror, that he loves Arsenal, he loves playing for Arsenal, they're the most popular foreign club in france, makes no sense leaving [Mirror]

[KSE Comedy Club]

Arsene Wenger have told some french media, that we've been following Antoine Griezmann for some time.

Would be a great addition to our squad, can play all on both wings, but would probably be used on left wing for us.
We follow everyone for a long time. Then when it comes to the crunch, wenger shits his pants when he opens the cheque book and starts haggling like an Arab market trader.

We all know what comes next, 'insert player' ends up goin somewhere else.

[JonasTC]

Yes thats exactly how it works... Are you a journalist working for one of those famous respectable english newspapers? :bow:

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I see Benzema's been on fire this season. I remember when people were saying Benzema is no better than Giroud :haha:

[RomfordPele]

Arsene Wenger have told some french media, that we've been following Antoine Griezmann for some time.

Would be a great addition to our squad, can play all on both wings, but would probably be used on left wing for us.

Blimey, is it season ticket renewal time already, or are we starting this charade early this year?

[Heisenberg]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/26414167

I'm confused. So Suarez did have a buy-out clause? I thought the entire point of the furore in the summer was that it wasn't a buy-out clause :unsure:

[GP]

Seems that way.

What are they smoking over there?

[Munchies]

'#FreeSuarez' is trending on twitter :haha:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FreeSuarez&src=hash&f=realtime

:haha:

[Marc Overmars]

I doubt he even wanted to join us. He just wanted to leave, period.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

'#FreeSuarez' is trending on twitter :haha:

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FreeSuarez&src=hash&f=realtime

:haha:
That is something Liverpool fans would do.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

The loco Americano's hoodwinked us all.....in short.

Henry even has the temerity to come out now Liverpool have gone above us and admit this shizzle.....

The Meeeja should be slaughtering Liverpool for this.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

my fondest hope is for Suarez and Evra to co host a daytime tv show called Ebony and Ivory.

[Munchies]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IILgJS_NLS8

Lol at the Barcelona answer :haha:

Bye :wave:

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Was reading a rehash of old stories.....interest in Citeh's Richards and Remy from Newcastle......wouldn't say no to Remy for the eight or do million it would take to activate his release clause! We still need another striker of true class but a trio of Morata Remy and Big Sexy would work for me.....nothing wrong with Richards coming in as a better quality of cover then we have at the mo.....plus the Sagna talk is not dying down either

[Penguin]

Richards is terrible, no thanks

[GP]

Richards is pretty shit.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

He's a great bodybuilder.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

Wouldn't like to say based in the four games he's played all season....worth taking a look at least

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Richards is a player I used to really like but he seemed to disappear into the injury vacum for some considerable time. Easily done at a club like City but he has a chance to get his mojo back if he gets over the injuries and maybe makes the right move ala Sturridge.

He is the sort of player I'd have liked at the club training day in day out with Sagna for a good few years. He's a real athlete and the boy can definitely play, but we aren't likely to get him out of there easily. Sturridge didn't leave for too much money, but they've been stockpiling quality forwards for years over there so he was easily expendable and still had an awful lot to prove.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

SHE WORE

[Penguin]

Wouldn't like to say based in the four games he's played all season....worth taking a look at least
It's not based on this season, it's based on the last 7 or 8 years. As a CB Richards a carbon copy of Kolo - he's athletic but his positional sense and awareness is horrible. His pace and strength can bail him out at times but he will invariably get caught out by more intelligent (or just faster) forwards. He might have been good if we got him early and beat some sense into him but he's turning 26 this year, and if he hasn't learnt by now he never will.

As a RB he's not as bad but there will still be a similar problem. It can't be underestimated how important Sagna is for us defensively. I'm not sure how we're going to adequately replace him. :(

[AFC Leveller]

I read somewhere that Remy's rape case was dropped.

He'd be a decent option and has proven he can get goals regularely at this level but im hoping we go al out for Sanchez, top top player.

[AFC Leveller]

Dont want to lose Vermaelen, he is still a quality player and although the current CB partnership is doing really well, we cannot afford to lose a player with his quality and esp NOT to fucking MAN URE!

[Marc Overmars]

It would be a shame to lose Vermaelen but I don't think anyone would begrudge him a move, he's good enough to play regularly for most top teams, it's just unfortunate for him we have such a great first choice pairing.

[Niall_Quinn]

Tommy has handled it very well so far and I hope he continues to do so. It must be tough sitting it out as the club captain. But he hasn't moaned or slagged the club and everything I've seen coming from him is positive. Normally all our defenders would be dead by now and he would have got a lot more games. By some miracle Kos and Merts have mostly stayed fit. So I'd agree, can't begrudge him a move but it can't be to Utd. No more players going that way unless they are Bendtner quality or damaging in some other way.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Linked to Ginter from Frieberg for our up and coming/backup CB role.

Anyone got any info on him. All I know is that he's German so he must be good.

[Niall_Quinn]

Linked to Ginter from Frieberg for our up and coming/backup CB role.

Anyone got any info on him. All I know is that he's German so he must be good.

He's got pace, think we could do with him here. I wouldn't say no. He's pacey. Plenty of pace. Get him in. Who else are we buying?

[selassie]

Linked to Ginter from Frieberg for our up and coming/backup CB role.

Anyone got any info on him. All I know is that he's German so he must be good.

He's very highly rated over in Germany, he's just broken into their National squad. I can't say I have seen much of him but from what I have read of him he is supposed to be quite versatile, very mobile and good in the air. He can play DM too.

Would like us to move for him.

Long term successor to Merts in both our team and the German National Team?

[JonasTC]

Michy Batshuayi, 20 year old, raised en belgium, familiy is from congo. Has been talking about how he likes our club and has loved Arsenal since he was a kid. He's topscorer in the belgian league right now.

Found this article on him;

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/10824?cc=5739

[The Emirates Gallactico]

Michy Batshuayi, 20 year old, raised en belgium, familiy is from congo. Has been talking about how he likes our club and has loved Arsenal since he was a kid. He's topscorer in the belgian league right now.

Found this article on him;

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/10824?cc=5739


Googled him. Looks like the next Lukaku. A must get.


Daily Heil has us linked to Francisco Alcacer and Diego Poyet today.

[GP]

Never heard of any of them.

Get Richards and Bent.

[Dein-machine]

Never heard of any of them.

Get Richards and Bent.

As funny as that is - with Wumger about this might not be too far off what we get.

[I am invisible]

Michy Batshuayi, 20 year old, raised en belgium, familiy is from congo. Has been talking about how he likes our club and has loved Arsenal since he was a kid. He's topscorer in the belgian league right now.

Found this article on him;

http://espnfc.com/blog/_/name/espnfcunited/id/10824?cc=5739

This feels like the kind of player we should be taking a punt on as an extra/bonus signing this summer, if we decide to buy two CFs instead of one: one who is world class, and another cheaper option who is more of a surprise package?

[AFC Leveller]

According to Ballague:

Morata is not playing regularly and is now looking for a way out. He's got an agreement with Arsenal BUT that will mean nothing unless Arsenal and Real Madrid agree a fee; and Arsenal will not be the only team that wants him.

I honestly dont know what they see in this guy. I've watched him several times this season and the one thing that struck me is that he's a slow mofo. Not the fast and dynamic number 9 we're desperatly lacking. His goal record is also quite poor and hasnt proved anything yet. This Arsenal team needs someone who is ready now to perform and get the best out of the players we have.

Morata as an option of the bench, yes please but as the main man (assuming we're going to challenge) then NO, thanks.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

According to Ballague:

Morata is not playing regularly and is now looking for a way out. He's got an agreement with Arsenal BUT that will mean nothing unless Arsenal and Real Madrid agree a fee; and Arsenal will not be the only team that wants him.

I honestly dont know what they see in this guy. I've watched him several times this season and the one thing that struck me is that he's a slow mofo. Not the fast and dynamic number 9 we're desperatly lacking. His goal record is also quite poor and hasnt proved anything yet. This Arsenal team needs someone who is ready now to perform and get the best out of the players we have.

Morata as an option of the bench, yes please but as the main man (assuming we're going to challenge) then NO, thanks.

We don't sign quick players anymore that would be cheating, because it would suit our style of play too much

[I am invisible]

Yeah, I'm struggling to get that excited about the thougt of going for Morata? Again, I wouldn't mind taking a punt on someone like him if we're going for a couple of CFs this summer, but I'd be a little underwhelmed if he was the only player we went for in that area...

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Unfortunately the nailed on player we needed to sign went to Napoli in the summer because we decided to spend the summer chasing our own tails with Suarez

[I am invisible]

Unfortunately the nailed on player we needed to sign went to Napoli in the summer because we decided to spend the summer chasing our own tails with Suarez

Do you know what, I actually think it was the other way round? Now we know the truth of the matter from Liverpool's owner, it sounds like Suarez was the nailed-on deal - he was the one with the fixed release clause (that we met), where there was no other competition for his signature, and Higuain was the one that was starting to drag on and on with Madrid's constant price hikes, and the interest from Napoli? It sounds odd to say now, given that we know how it ended up going for us, but, at the time, I think the club made the best decision they could in abandoning Higuain for Suarez?

[Niall_Quinn]

Morata looked very, very ordinary last night. Nothing impressive there at all.

[Niall_Quinn]

Do you know what, I actually think it was the other way round? Now we know the truth of the matter from Liverpool's owner, it sounds like Suarez was the nailed-on deal - he was the one with the fixed release clause (that we met), where there was no other competition for his signature, and Higuain was the one that was starting to drag on and on with Madrid's constant price hikes, and the interest from Napoli? It sounds odd to say now, given that we know how it ended up going for us, but, at the time, I think the club made the best decision they could in abandoning Higuain for Suarez?

Agree with that because nobody had the benefit of hindsight while the pursuit of Suarez was ongoing. As it turns out we almost pulled off what would probably have been a title winning transfer and if the terms of contracts had been honoured Suarez would have been banging in the goals for us all season. It was a bold and, based on the facts that have emerged, legitimate display of ambition to drive the club on. When you are playing within the rules you can't legislate against individuals like Henry simply ignoring those rules. Otherwise no transfers could ever be done because contracts would be entirely meaningless. Our attempt failed because Henry is disreputable, not because we fucked up in some way. If we'd been dealing with a professional and honourable individual then the deal would have been done and everyone would be singing praises and Higuain would be a distant memory. But the bid failed through no fault of our own so now people beat Wenger over the head with Higuain. It's all about attacking Wenger. That is the main aim.

[I am invisible]

Agree with that because nobody had the benefit of hindsight while the pursuit of Suarez was ongoing. As it turns out we almost pulled off what would probably have been a title winning transfer and if the terms of contracts had been honoured Suarez would have been banging in the goals for us all season. It was a bold and, based on the facts that have emerged, legitimate display of ambition to drive the club on. When you are playing within the rules you can't legislate against individuals like Henry simply ignoring those rules. Otherwise no transfers could ever be done because contracts would be entirely meaningless. Our attempt failed because Henry is disreputable, not because we fucked up in some way. If we'd been dealing with a professional and honourable individual then the deal would have been done and everyone would be singing praises and Higuain would be a distant memory. But the bid failed through no fault of our own so now people beat Wenger over the head with Higuain. It's all about attacking Wenger. That is the main aim.

Yeah, I'm sure the club / manager need to shoulder their share of the blame for lots of deals falling through / failing to happen, but I really don't think this was one of them? We switched targets to a better, PL-ready player, who was available for a guaranteed price, and where there was no other competition, and we got fucked over - unfortunate for us, as it turns out, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong decision to make at the time. I can't really fault them for doing what they did on this one.

On the subject of bold moves, I think it's also worth remembering that we put in two sizeable bids (£20-25m) for Lars Bender at the start of last summer too - chuck in the moves for Suarez and Ozil, and that's £100m+ we were committed to spending last summer?! Even if you still have doubts about our ability to get deals completed, that's got to be encouraging from an ambition POV?

[AFC Leveller]

Yeah, I'm sure the club / manager need to shoulder their share of the blame for lots of deals falling through / failing to happen, but I really don't think this was one of them? We switched targets to a better, PL-ready player, who was available for a guaranteed price, and where there was no other competition, and we got fucked over - unfortunate for us, as it turns out, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong decision to make at the time. I can't really fault them for doing what they did on this one.

On the subject of bold moves, I think it's also worth remembering that we put in two sizeable bids (£20-25m) for Lars Bender at the start of last summer too - chuck in the moves for Suarez and Ozil, and that's £100m+ we were committed to spending last summer?! Even if you still have doubts about our ability to get deals completed, that's got to be encouraging from an ambition POV?

Agreed mate.

[AFC Leveller]

Agree with that because nobody had the benefit of hindsight while the pursuit of Suarez was ongoing. As it turns out we almost pulled off what would probably have been a title winning transfer and if the terms of contracts had been honoured Suarez would have been banging in the goals for us all season. It was a bold and, based on the facts that have emerged, legitimate display of ambition to drive the club on. When you are playing within the rules you can't legislate against individuals like Henry simply ignoring those rules. Otherwise no transfers could ever be done because contracts would be entirely meaningless. Our attempt failed because Henry is disreputable, not because we fucked up in some way. If we'd been dealing with a professional and honourable individual then the deal would have been done and everyone would be singing praises and Higuain would be a distant memory. But the bid failed through no fault of our own so now people beat Wenger over the head with Higuain. It's all about attacking Wenger. That is the main aim.

Good points as usual.

40m WAS his buy out clause and we had eveyr right to get him but that Yank cunt fucked us over.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yeah, I'm sure the club / manager need to shoulder their share of the blame for lots of deals falling through / failing to happen, but I really don't think this was one of them? We switched targets to a better, PL-ready player, who was available for a guaranteed price, and where there was no other competition, and we got fucked over - unfortunate for us, as it turns out, but that doesn't mean it was the wrong decision to make at the time. I can't really fault them for doing what they did on this one.

On the subject of bold moves, I think it's also worth remembering that we put in two sizeable bids (£20-25m) for Lars Bender at the start of last summer too - chuck in the moves for Suarez and Ozil, and that's £100m+ we were committed to spending last summer?! Even if you still have doubts about our ability to get deals completed, that's got to be encouraging from an ambition POV?I agree with everything except for the last bit.

I don't think for one minute that we were going to outlay £100m last summer. It was gonna be bender and higuain for around the £40m mark combined. Then when Suarez came up it was £40m for him, pool fucked us over so it was £42m for Ozil.

So the outlay was around the £40m mark.

[Niall_Quinn]

Rather have Ozil now and a top striker in the summer. Ozil with a few additions to the team is going to be magnificent.

They better spend plenty of cash in the summer or I'm going to get them.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Rather have Ozil now and a top striker in the summer. Ozil with a few additions to the team is going to be magnificent.

They better spend plenty of cash in the summer or I'm going to get them.

You've been threatening to have a go at this self-immolation thing for quite some time now. Time you turned words into action, I'd say.

[I am invisible]

I agree with everything except for the last bit.

I don't think for one minute that we were going to outlay £100m last summer. It was gonna be bender and higuain for around the £40m mark combined. Then when Suarez came up it was £40m for him, pool fucked us over so it was £42m for Ozil.

So the outlay was around the £40m mark.

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from, and I agree that Ozil was probably a last minute bit of opportunism and something that we hadn't really planned on doing until we heard he might be available, but I don't think we would have necessarily dropped our interest in him if we'd managed to land Suarez? As unlikely as it sounds to say that we were willing to spend £100m in one summer, I think this idea that Wenger would chuck £42m away on an emergency panic-buy, just to shut the fans up, sounds even less likely? He's a stubborn old goat when it comes to stuff like that, and has always been perfectly prepared to work with what he has and take the criticism, if he can't get the exact players he wants, and I just can't see him suddenly changing his ways and bowing to outside pressure like that? This is all just a guess, of course, but IMO I think last summer was one of those super-rare, almost mythical occasions where two or three players became available at the same time who Wenger genuinely felt matched their valuations, and were worth the money? He's always said he was willing to spend big if the right players came along - maybe this was just the first evidence we've ever seen of it?

At the very least we know that we were prepared to go as high as 25m for Lars Bender and were in for at least one of those guys for 40m+ (and the I think the bidding had gone as high as 50m for Suarez by the time those talks collapsed?), even if you don't think we were in for both, so that's still a spend of between 65-75m that we were committed to last summer? That's pretty much unheard of for us, and what's encouraging for this summer, is that signing Ozil hasn't changed our need for a world-class striker and a long-term defensive / holding midfielder - perhaps bringing Flamini in has bought us some time in CM, but I wouldn't be surprised if we were in for both types of player again this summer, if the right players come along?

[selassie]

Morata looked very, very ordinary last night. Nothing impressive there at all.

Yeah I don't see what the fuss is all about with Morata. I have watched him a few times and really don't rate him that high.

Neither do Real judging by the lack of game time they give him, saying that...they still want a crazy amount of money for him, I have read in various places they wont sell him for less than 20mill.

I personally don't want him, not even as a back up.

[I am invisible]

To be fair to Morata, I suppose you never know how these young/fringe players might improve if they're given a guaranteed spot in a starting XI, and a chance to build some form an consistency? I still feel it's too much of a gamble for us though, given our current needs - we need a world-class striker to come in and start doing the business straight away, not another project who might come good at some point.

And, if we're talking back-up / understudy to someone else, then that pretty much puts him in the same boat that he's in now at Madrid - getting a game here and a game there, with no real chance to build any form. Not the sort of thing you invest £20m in.

[Niall_Quinn]

Latest (I stress) rumour, Sagna to the chavs or... the spuds. Talk about a hate figure if that happens. Let's just hope this is a crude attempt to slander him and there's not a hint of a trace of a shred of truth to it.

[Bumble]

Latest (I stress) rumour, Sagna to the chavs or... the spuds. Talk about a hate figure if that happens. Let's just hope this is a crude attempt to slander him and there's not a hint of a trace of a shred of truth to it.

Haha spurs Haha that's funny. Think inter is more likely. I expect him to leave now, he might get a FA cup medal but no chance of a league title so he might as well leave if he can get a move to inter or psg or team like that.

Sign Coleman.

[JonasTC]

There's rumours on Bender and Schneiderlin. Schneiderlin welcomed the idea of a move in an interview with a french newspaper recently, he's one of the best DMs in the league, is PM proven and can probably be bought for reasonable price.

[Marc Overmars]

Schneiderlin won't come cheap, he's on a long term deal and being PL proven means there will be a tax on top of his market value. Quality player though.

As is Bender.

Get both tbh.

[Munchies]

Haven't seen both of them too much, but as long as they're fairly fast that's all that matters really as a DM in our side.

[Özim]

Schneiderlin won't come cheap, he's on a long term deal and being PL proven means there will be a tax on top of his market value. Quality player though.

As is Bender.

Get both tbh.

Pay Southampton the money over 6 years and when they start to struggle financially settle on a an amount of 9 pence.

[AFC Leveller]

GUILLEM SAYS: Atletico Madrid have to sell and Costa's buyout clause is 36million euros. Chelsea are favourites but they are not the only team that want him

[AFC Leveller]

i suppose the only silver lining is that we know the club bid for a striker (Suarez) and a DCM (Bender) so they clearly see that Giroud and Arteta arent the answer.

[Niall_Quinn]

Sagna again, and have to hope it isn't true again. Might be good news as he now appears to be joining everyone according to the media, so this probably falls into the realm of completely made up in the pub story.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2589909/City-offer-Arsenal-defender-Sagna-three-year-contract-Frenchman-looks-certain-Emirates-exit.html

[Munchies]

Seems we've given Sagna a 3 year deal

@johncrossmirror

Arsenal offer Bacary Sagna three year deal as they pull out all the stops to keep him

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Splendid!

[GP]

Cool. Coolcoolcool. At least we can say we did all we can to keep him.

[Ollie the Optimist]

not convinced 3 years is the right thing to offer. 31 one year old, two broken legs last year. Still playing very well this season, but i highly doubt that will last much beyond next year unless we convert him to centre back.

[1_nilto the arsenal]

Seems we've given Sagna a 3 year deal

@johncrossmirror

Arsenal offer Bacary Sagna three year deal as they pull out all the stops to keep him
Typical Wenger, hasnt got anyone lined up to replace Sagna who doesnt deserve a 3 year contract, the guy has been poor and is not good enough to be an Arsenal right back. I have never rated Sagna at all and thought he was at best average. Total fuck up if we keep him till 33, there a re plenty of execellent right backs in La Liga and the Bundesliga, why do we need to press the panic button and pull out all the stops for a shit player? See this is the thing that pisses me off Wenger and why he should leave at the end of this season. Where the fuck are the youth players coming through? Where the fuck are your scouts? Too pissed off to go any further. Arrrghhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Niall_Quinn]

It's true, we don't have a world class youth prospect in every position. Just a few in some positions. Like most clubs.

[fakeyank]

Typical Wenger, hasnt got anyone lined up to replace Sagna who doesnt deserve a 3 year contract, the guy has been poor and is not good enough to be an Arsenal right back. I have never rated Sagna at all and thought he was at best average. Total fuck up if we keep him till 33, there a re plenty of execellent right backs in La Liga and the Bundesliga, why do we need to press the panic button and pull out all the stops for a shit player? See this is the thing that pisses me off Wenger and why he should leave at the end of this season. Where the fuck are the youth players coming through? Where the fuck are your scouts? Too pissed off to go any further. Arrrghhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dont agree with this at all. Sagna is the best RB in the league and if he is staying with us, thats one of the best news this season. I would rather he stay over many other cunts in the team.

[Munchies]

Apparently we've already signed this guy for the summer


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F1VtEx74Y0

Arsenal are reported to have sealed the arrival of striker Josip Drmic from Nuremberg, according to Sky Germany.

The news was broken by Lothar Matthaus and relayed on Twitter by colleague and former Swindon and Middlesbrough forward Jan Aage Fjortoft.

21-year-old Drmic has been linked with a move to the Emirates in recent days, following his 15 goals in 26 appearances for the Bundesliga side this term.

Should reports prove accurate, the youngster would be a typical Arsene Wenger signing, hungry to impress in the Premier League.
http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/29/arsenal-sign-nuremberg-striker-josip-drmic-4682747/

[Injury Time]

Apparently we've already signed this guy for the summer


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8F1VtEx74Y0

Arsenal are reported to have sealed the arrival of striker Josip Drmic from Nuremberg, according to Sky Germany.

The news was broken by Lothar Matthaus and relayed on Twitter by colleague and former Swindon and Middlesbrough forward Jan Aage Fjortoft.

21-year-old Drmic has been linked with a move to the Emirates in recent days, following his 15 goals in 26 appearances for the Bundesliga side this term.

Should reports prove accurate, the youngster would be a typical Arsene Wenger signing, hungry to impress in the Premier League.
http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/29/arsenal-sign-nuremberg-striker-josip-drmic-4682747/
If he tries that flicky crap he'll get mullered, he's no Bendtner though :(

[KSE Comedy Club]

Oh wow.

More shit to look forward to in the summer.

Looks like all that money is gonna be well saved :good:

Also that is a shit highlight vid: 6 mins long, a striker, and he doesn't score until you are 4:30 in???

hmmm.

[GP]

Oh wow.

More shit to look forward to in the summer.

Looks like all that money is gonna be well saved :good:

Also that is a shit highlight vid: 6 mins long, a striker, and he doesn't score until you are 4:30 in???

hmmm.

We will spend big, don't you worry.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I hope you're right

[The Emirates Gallactico]

As long as he isn't the only forward to be brought in, it's not a problem. I'm guessing competition for Sanago for the 3rd place berth.

In fact as he looks capable of actually running at defences and making goals scoring runs he may even overtake Giroud for 2nd choice.

[Niall_Quinn]

Giroud will be gone in the summer, you would hope. He's had the ultimate opportunity to prove he can do it at the level we require. A season to get acclimatised, then the role of primary striker for the whole season. End result is not nearly good enough. There's no benefit in keeping him.

[Özim]

Ar you kidding me? You really think Giroud will go, not a chance IMO, Wenger doesn't do that, especially not a someone he plays week in week out.

We may or may not go out and spend in the summer, I don't really have great faith it will be on players we need however.

[Niall_Quinn]

He's good enough to start at a lower level somewhere else, doubt he'll want to sit on our bench as third choice. Makes sense for all involved if he moves on.

[Özim]

Wenger won't get rid of him of that I'm pretty certain, he won't be third choice either, at very worst he'll be 2nd choice, if we sign someone of quality up front of course which noone can be sure of.

I'd love him to move on as I think he's sh*t and spoils our game, but he won't.

[AFC Leveller]

Wont win us any games (by that i mean big/tight ones) and has lost some of his qualities lately (hold up play, one twos with the midfielders, heading) not to mention he hasnt improved much and is fucking slow as a turtle.

I honestly believe there are lower/mid table strikers who could do a better job than him (Remy, Rodriguez, even Shane long who i think is better than in many areas).

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think giroud will go but only if there is truth to the stories about his marriage.

Otherwise he would still be here next season.

I'm still pretty certain that his massive loss of form and tragic displays of late are down to his relationship troubles tbf.

[Marc Overmars]

Jay Rodriguez. :bow:

Must get.

[AFC Leveller]

I think giroud will go but only if there is truth to the stories about his marriage.

Otherwise he would still be here next season.

I'm still pretty certain that his massive loss of form and tragic displays of late are down to his relationship troubles tbf.

Whilst i agree that his relationship issues may have effected his performance on the pitch, the fact is he is a limited player and wont suddenly become quick or prolific and we'll conitue to struggle with him in the side. Also, he has scored about 7 or 8 goals since his fling so it hasnt bene that bad.

[Munchies]

Get rid of Giroud and Bentdner.

Bring in Diego Costa (world class) , Remy (PL proven, has loads of pace) and this Bundesliga guy.

[Niall_Quinn]

Costa gone already - Russian drug, prostitution, slave money and the proceeds from stolen national assets have been earmarked to bring him to chavland.

[LDG]

No, we should sign *insert flavour of the month from lower prem team or someone with expensive pricetag*.

Dempsey :haha:

[Niall_Quinn]

No, we should sign *insert flavour of the month from lower prem team or someone with expensive pricetag*.

Dempsey :haha:

Got to say, would have rather had him up top than Giroud yesterday. Would have rather had Parker up there, for the extra pace and movement. Would have rather had Owen Coyle up there for the more restrained facial expressions and the more tasteful underpants.

[LDG]

Got to say, would have rather had him up top than Giroud yesterday. Would have rather had Parker up there, for the extra pace and movement. Would have rather had Owen Coyle up there for the more restrained facial expressions and the more tasteful underpants.

:gp:

[AFC Leveller]

Got to say, would have rather had him up top than Giroud yesterday. Would have rather had Parker up there, for the extra pace and movement. Would have rather had Owen Coyle up there for the more restrained facial expressions and the more tasteful underpants.

Giroud is better than Jon Maken though.

[Niall_Quinn]

Giroud is better than Jon Maken though.

He has the potential to be better.

[milla]

Costa gone already - Russian drug, prostitution, slave money and the proceeds from stolen national assets have been earmarked to bring him to chavland.

Bitter cunt, their owner is not different than Arsenal's current and previous owners. :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

Bitter cunt, their owner is not different than Arsenal's current and previous owners. :coffee:

Nothing to do with bitter, everything to do with refusing to turn a blind eye. Plainly you have no clue how Abramovich "made" his money and neither do you appear to care even though it affects you directly and well beyond the bounds of football. Fair enough on that fat crime boss Usmanov, but not a penny of his money has gone in despite his love. Long may that last. What's the quote - evil prospers when good men... needs to be revised for the mobile phone generation.

(Do we have an icon for tea?)

[milla]

Nothing to do with bitter, everything to do with refusing to turn a blind eye. Plainly you have no clue how Abramovich "made" his money and neither do you appear to care even though it affects you directly and well beyond the bounds of football. Fair enough on that fat crime boss Usmanov, but not a penny of his money has gone in despite his love. Long may that last. What's the quote - evil prospers when good men... needs to be revised for the mobile phone generation.

(Do we have an icon for tea?)

PHW not a criminal? English crook living in tax free Swiss whilst the rest of the country pay? What about our very own £, should we return the blood money to India, SEA etc.

It is football, but if you start thinking about who has blood money then all of them at fault. Quit moaning about Chelsea or Citeh, their owner spend their money and get their rewards. Arsenal don't, and why do you blame Usmanov when he is not given a seat on the board? How do you blame Usmanov when it is Kroenke who has full control of this club? Is it cos Usmanov is fat or he is not white enough for you? :coffee:

[Niall_Quinn]

PHW not a criminal? English crook living in tax free Swiss whilst the rest of the country pay? What about our very own £, should we return the blood money to India, SEA etc.

It is football, but if you start thinking about who has blood money then all of them at fault. Quit moaning about Chelsea or Citeh, their owner spend their money and get their rewards. Arsenal don't, and why do you blame Usmanov when he is not given a seat on the board? How do you blame Usmanov when it is Kroenke who has full control of this club? Is it cos Usmanov is fat or he is not white enough for you? :coffee:

Bitter cunt? The racist card? That's some desperate shit there - can I borrow the chip off your shoulder? Mine's starting to look inadequate.

Please refer to 1,001 posts I made about PHW and the rest for your answer. That bunch of bastards showed their true colours and who's denying it? You're doing exactly what I said you are doing. Turning a blind eye, in this case because you think all are as guilty. Everyone who worships money is a blight on humanity, but there are degrees, sometimes extreme. The Russian gangster and the arab thieves are prime examples of the extreme end of the spectrum.

[milla]

Bitter cunt? The racist card? That's some desperate shit there - can I borrow the chip off your shoulder? Mine's starting to look inadequate.

Please refer to 1,001 posts I made about PHW and the rest for your answer. That bunch of bastards showed their true colours and who's denying it? You're doing exactly what I said you are doing. Turning a blind eye, in this case because you think all are as guilty. Everyone who worships money is a blight on humanity, but there are degrees, sometimes extreme. The Russian gangster and the arab thieves are prime examples of the extreme end of the spectrum.

I am not desperate but sick of hearing it being use as an excuse of the club's failure.

Is it arab's fault that they are blessed with oil money? Is it Usmanov's fault that he took the opportunity when others were blind to it? Oh and is it Kroenke's fault that he married a billionaire woman?

If you don't want to be called racist than you might want to stop calling them Russian gangster or Arab filth, it does make you look very racist especially when you repeat it on every single thread on this board. I am going to ask you again, why have you made your point against Usmanov but you haven't said a word about Kroenke? :coffee:

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I think NQ has been fairly condemning of Kroenke tbf.

[milla]

I think NQ has been fairly condemning of Kroenke tbf.



Fair enough on that fat crime boss Usmanov, but not a penny of his money has gone in despite his love. Long may that last.

Maccy, I am looking at this post and wondering why NQ completely ignore Kroenke who has the full control of the club. If you want to mock Usmanov for being corrupt (which is he), then take it to general board not on Arsenal thread.

I am sorry for calling NQ bitter cunt, in fact I am sorry if I have swear or curse others on this board. Despite the calling you lot cunts etc, I have a lot of respect for every gooners on this board. :coffee:

[saintnickle]

Costa gone already - Russian drug, prostitution, slave money and the proceeds from stolen national assets have been earmarked to bring him to chavland.

You really mean that chelsea have identified a player early who is quality and would make a real difference to their team.Something that we cant do even though it is glaringly obvious we need someone of his ability.No doubt next season we will see what we have done for the last 9 years in waiting till 23.50 on deadline day ,haggle over a few million when we have 120 m in the bank..

[Globalgunner]

You really mean that chelsea have identified a player early who is quality and would make a real difference to their team.Something that we cant do even though it is glaringly obvious we need someone of his ability.No doubt next season we will see what we have done for the last 9 years in waiting till 23.50 on deadline day ,haggle over a few million when we have 120 m in the bank..

We are Wengers Arsenal. Much too clever for that buy the obvious shit. We will pick up some unknown who is sure to light up our league. As you can see from our recent track record. of Chamakh. Gervinho and of course Ollie the loverboy...Giroud.

[Niall_Quinn]

You really mean that chelsea have identified a player early who is quality and would make a real difference to their team.Something that we cant do even though it is glaringly obvious we need someone of his ability.No doubt next season we will see what we have done for the last 9 years in waiting till 23.50 on deadline day ,haggle over a few million when we have 120 m in the bank..

No, I mean if the chavs want him then we aren't in the game. We need to sign several players, not just to improve the starting eleven but also add depth to the squad so we don't fall to bits when a couple of players get injured. So we can't enter into bidding wars with clubs that have unlimited funds - nobody can except the other financial dopers. Unless FFP is tightened up and enforced and bullshit like the gypos sponsoring themselves is wiped up.

[Niall_Quinn]

We are Wengers Arsenal. Much too clever for that buy the obvious shit. We will pick up some unknown who is sure to light up our league. As you can see from our recent track record. of Chamakh. Gervinho and of course Ollie the loverboy...Giroud.

And Kos and Merts and Ox and Cazorla and other shit like that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Maccy, I am looking at this post and wondering why NQ completely ignore Kroenke who has the full control of the club. If you want to mock Usmanov for being corrupt (which is he), then take it to general board not on Arsenal thread.

I am sorry for calling NQ bitter cunt, in fact I am sorry if I have swear or curse others on this board. Despite the calling you lot cunts etc, I have a lot of respect for every gooners on this board. :coffee:

Long argument, not for a footie forum. All corruption in business needs to be cleaned up for the benefit of everyone but we are better starting with the scumbags who murder, torture, abuse human rights. Or at least let's not pretend they are respectable or just like everyone else. They aren't. Kroenke's history is connected to employment and other social abuses, not directly but through his wife's family. So far there's no evidence I'm aware of he's done anything criminal in his own business dealings. I don't envy or have any problems with rich people, wish I was rich myself - it would be nice. But for those who break the law and especially those who buy justice we are obliged to point to them and tell them we know what they have done. and with people who apologise for these bastards or turn a blind eye, they should be reminded too. The only reason nobody can do anything about this is because the majority tells people who point it out there is no problem, or even if they admit the problem that nothing can be done about it. I call Abramovich what he is. Same with the foul creatures who have hijacked city (Man city, not The city - but same thing, different tribe). Look up their records, start with Amnesty International.

[Globalgunner]

And Kos and Merts and Ox and Cazorla and other shit like that.

Again your trademak misdirection. We were talking strikers, but since you insist. Which of those players has elevated us beyond our usual 4th position....Sorry i forgot 4th was always the target. So they must be marvelous players

[Globalgunner]

Long argument, not for a footie forum. All corruption in business needs to be cleaned up for the benefit of everyone but we are better starting with the scumbags who murder, torture, abuse human rights. Or at least let's not pretend they are respectable or just like everyone else. They aren't. Kroenke's history is connected to employment and other social abuses, not directly but through his wife's family. So far there's no evidence I'm aware of he's done anything criminal in his own business dealings. I don't envy or have any problems with rich people, wish I was rich myself - it would be nice. But for those who break the law and especially those who buy justice we are obliged to point to them and tell them we know what they have done. and with people who apologise for these bastards or turn a blind eye, they should be reminded too. The only reason nobody can do anything about this is because the majority tells people who point it out there is no problem, or even if they admit the problem that nothing can be done about it. I call Abramovich what he is. Same with the foul creatures who have hijacked city (Man city, not The city - but same thing, different tribe). Look up their records, start with Amnesty International.

You don't hate rich people but continually lambaste the previous shareholders who sold to Kroernke......You keep reminding us they took money out of the club , How so?. If you bought your own house for 150k and it came to time to sell. Would you accept a higher price or still sell at 150k

[Niall_Quinn]

Again your trademak misdirection. We were talking strikers, but since you insist. Which of those players has elevated us beyond our usual 4th position....Sorry i forgot 4th was always the target. So they must be marvelous players

I was merely un-framing your debating point.

[Globalgunner]

I was merely un-framing your debating point.

Yours is a case of bitterness gone gangrene. Best cut it out

[Niall_Quinn]

You don't hate rich people but continually lambaste the previous shareholders who sold to Kroernke......You keep reminding us they took money out of the club , How so?. If you bought your own house for 150k and it came to time to sell. Would you accept a higher price or still sell at 150k

First we should say it's now a £500mill house that needs renovation. If I dearly loved the family moving in and and they were short a few quid for wallpaper I wouldn't really have a huge problem dropping the margin. Especially if the initial cost had been £150k - and I wonder how far from the truth that isn't?

[Niall_Quinn]

Yours is a case of bitterness gone gangrene. Best cut it out

Here you are again, the parrot. Although the £150k house thing was your own work, so well done.

[fakeyank]

Again your trademak misdirection. We were talking strikers, but since you insist. Which of those players has elevated us beyond our usual 4th position....Sorry i forgot 4th was always the target. So they must be marvelous players

:gp:

[saintnickle]

No, I mean if the chavs want him then we aren't in the game. We need to sign several players, not just to improve the starting eleven but also add depth to the squad so we don't fall to bits when a couple of players get injured. So we can't enter into bidding wars with clubs that have unlimited funds - nobody can except the other financial dopers. Unless FFP is tightened up and enforced and bullshit like the gypos sponsoring themselves is wiped up.

We arent in the game with over 100m in the bank..Well whose to blame then??

[Power n Glory]

First we should say it's now a £500mill house that needs renovation. If I dearly loved the family moving in and and they were short a few quid for wallpaper I wouldn't really have a huge problem dropping the margin. Especially if the initial cost had been £150k - and I wonder how far from the truth that isn't?

If that’s true, what does it say about Wenger’s character? We tries to keep all costs low except his own wages. When asked about ticket price hikes, he’ll defend the Board and say it’s necessary to compete with our rivals. Or has he turned a blind eye?

[Niall_Quinn]

If that’s true, what does it say about Wenger’s character? We tries to keep all costs low except his own wages. When asked about ticket price hikes, he’ll defend the Board and say it’s necessary to compete with our rivals. Or has he turned a blind eye?

It says that Wenger, if nobody else, has returned multiple times the amount invested in him for the past decade - when we have needed that return the most. His hit rate in this respect is 100%. Amazingly some see this is robbing the club.

[Power n Glory]

It’s amazing how you can’t see that he’s culpable if that’s your stance on the Board. He’s delivering targets for them and not the fans or his players.

[Niall_Quinn]

It’s amazing how you can’t see that he’s culpable if that’s your stance on the Board. He’s delivering targets for them and not the fans or his players.

And it's amazing some fans are screaming BUY PLAYERS! Spend Money! And then ignore all the work it has taken to actually make the money required to BUY PLAYERS! Spend Money! Not just SOME money, but the big money that's now required to buy the same quality players that cost a fraction in previous years. Football has changed, they say. Wenger is a dinosaur. Get Wenger out, get somebody else in. And then let the somebody else spend the money that just magically appeared despite Wenger's one man mission to rob the club. It could well be that in terms of what happens strictly on the pitch Wenger has made mistakes, most of us agree on this, I think it may be all of us. But for some that's not enough, they need to take the massive successes that have undoubtedly transformed the club and placed it on a stable footing in a crazy environment and call the guy who engineered it a thief. Astonishing. Real, gold plated thieves come in and start splashing the cash to buy trophies and this is viewed as laudable. Wenger battles through ten years to deliver a remedy based on sustainable business practices and he is the thief. Of course if the board now says thanks and cashes out then THEY are legitimate thieves in their own right. They have said no, they won't do this. They have said the money will be pumped back onto the pitch. As fans we choose to believe them or not. For me the arrival of Ozil was a tick in their favour so I'm giving them a chance.

But none of this would be possible without the last 10 years of extreme effort and somebody was instrumental in holding it all together during that period. Yes, the incompetent fool and thief Wenger. Get the bastard out and bring in a chequebook specialist to spend, spend, spend. Start the told you so music playing full blast and head down the pub to sing songs at Utd fans. "We" did it!

Price of everything, value of nothing.

[Özim]

Why is Wenger painted as some kind of saint who produces miracles and out of the goodness of his own heart and whom without we'd be a nothing club?

Noone is saying Wenger is a thief, he's a manager who delivered lots of success, champagne football and some of the best players we've ever seen, for that we can be thankful.

He does however earn a packet, more than most managers, I'm sure you could find a host of managers who would take the job for the money he gets, has free reign in that he has a say in many things most other managers wouldn't even know about and can do as he likes without anyone questioning him. He has also had IMO little consideration for the fans over the period of the stadium repayment, several times choosing to criticise them and many times patronising them, to protect his team/the board.

He's been a top manager, but it's not like he's not being rewarded handsomely and for the amount of money he gets he can't exactly complain, who wouldn't want his job?

PNG has a point, whilst he's saved on wages and transfers he's been happy to watch his salary get higher and higher, clearly he's not just in it out of the goodness of his heart.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why is Wenger painted as some kind of saint who produces miracles and out of the goodness of his own heart and whom without we'd be a nothing club?

Because he's not painted as that, I suppose.

He's painted as the manager who guided the club through a massive project to step up our financial muscle in a sustainable way so we can pay the exorbitant cost of being in the top flight. The alternative to the Wenger approach would be opening the doors to Usmanov. Those were our two options. In the course of implementing and completing the financial plan we haven't won trophies, if people think this is a failing then it's a legitimate enough argument, they can say Wenger hasn't done enough. But some are focusing only on this aspect of the last 10 years and carefully avoiding everything else. And some certainly do go as far as calling him a thief. He hasn't delivered trophies therefore he has taken wages he hasn't earned. Yes, if you view the last decade in such simple terms and devoid of the detail there is a non-point to be made that Wenger has cost the club. But you have to exclude most of the facts to make this stick. If another manager comes in and has a life made ten times easier through Wenger's efforts, I hope these "fans" at least have the good grace to acknowledge the huge contribution Wenger has made to this club. i think some of them won't. I think some of them will have a party on that day. It's this bitter refusal to look at the broader picture that pisses me off. I'm not saying that's you, btw. I'm not even saying it's anything other than a couple of fools on this forum. I'm more looking at these know nothing spotty dickhead kids who know as much about football as an actual football, wear their shirts, wave their flags and tweet how Wenger is a cunt. I;d really like to see those bastards go elsewhere, like chav or gypo land, where they belong.

[Power n Glory]

And it's amazing some fans are screaming BUY PLAYERS! Spend Money! And then ignore all the work it has taken to actually make the money required to BUY PLAYERS! Spend Money! Not just SOME money, but the big money that's now required to buy the same quality players that cost a fraction in previous years. Football has changed, they say. Wenger is a dinosaur. Get Wenger out, get somebody else in. And then let the somebody else spend the money that just magically appeared despite Wenger's one man mission to rob the club. It could well be that in terms of what happens strictly on the pitch Wenger has made mistakes, most of us agree on this, I think it may be all of us. But for some that's not enough, they need to take the massive successes that have undoubtedly transformed the club and placed it on a stable footing in a crazy environment and call the guy who engineered it a thief. Astonishing. Real, gold plated thieves come in and start splashing the cash to buy trophies and this is viewed as laudable. Wenger battles through ten years to deliver a remedy based on sustainable business practices and he is the thief. Of course if the board now says thanks and cashes out then THEY are legitimate thieves in their own right. They have said no, they won't do this. They have said the money will be pumped back onto the pitch. As fans we choose to believe them or not. For me the arrival of Ozil was a tick in their favour so I'm giving them a chance.

But none of this would be possible without the last 10 years of extreme effort and somebody was instrumental in holding it all together during that period. Yes, the incompetent fool and thief Wenger. Get the bastard out and bring in a chequebook specialist to spend, spend, spend. Start the told you so music playing full blast and head down the pub to sing songs at Utd fans. "We" did it!

Price of everything, value of nothing.

Oh, don't start ranting! That's got nothing to do with this conversation. Your logic is totally flawed.


Wenger battles through ten years to deliver a remedy based on sustainable business practices and he is the thief. Of course if the board now says thanks and cashes out then THEY are legitimate thieves in their own right. They have said no, they won't do this. They have said the money will be pumped back onto the pitch. As fans we choose to believe them or not. For me the arrival of Ozil was a tick in their favour so I'm giving them a chance.

You keep trying to separate the Board and Wenger when it's pretty clear that their visions are aligned. That's too hard for you to accept. Why would Wenger try to keep costs low and deliver on their targets if he wasn't on Board their vision? Why would he justify a price hike? Wenger came up with the blueprint if these guys are thieves. He chooses to buy undervalued players and sell for maximum profit, he came up with the over 30s contract policy, he's the one thoroughly convinced that 4th is an achievement. He serves his masters well.

[Özim]

Because he's not painted as that, I suppose.

He's painted as the manager who guided the club through a massive project to step up our financial muscle in a sustainable way so we can pay the exorbitant cost of being in the top flight. The alternative to the Wenger approach would be opening the doors to Usmanov. Those were our two options. In the course of implementing and completing the financial plan we haven't won trophies, if people think this is a failing then it's a legitimate enough argument, they can say Wenger hasn't done enough. But some are focusing only on this aspect of the last 10 years and carefully avoiding everything else. And some certainly do go as far as calling him a thief. He hasn't delivered trophies therefore he has taken wages he hasn't earned. Yes, if you view the last decade in such simple terms and devoid of the detail there is a non-point to be made that Wenger has cost the club. But you have to exclude most of the facts to make this stick. If another manager comes in and has a life made ten times easier through Wenger's efforts, I hope these "fans" at least have the good grace to acknowledge the huge contribution Wenger has made to this club. i think some of them won't. I think some of them will have a party on that day. It's this bitter refusal to look at the broader picture that pisses me off. I'm not saying that's you, btw. I'm not even saying it's anything other than a couple of fools on this forum. I'm more looking at these know nothing spotty dickhead kids who know as much about football as an actual football, wear their shirts, wave their flags and tweet how Wenger is a cunt. I;d really like to see those bastards go elsewhere, like chav or gypo land, where they belong.

I think if a new manager comes in his life will be more difficult in a way, not financially of course but Wenger has been here so long the whole club is about him (about like Ferguson and Moyes), thus a new manager will need some time to changes things, I personally don't think it's great to keep a manager for so long, the club becomes a bit stale because of it and it makes things more difficult for his successor.

Obviously the setup of the club is great and the finances will be good I'm not debating this at all, but it's hard to follow when a manager has been in charge for 18 years+

[Dein-machine]

Because he's not painted as that, I suppose.

He's painted as the manager who guided the club through a massive project to step up our financial muscle in a sustainable way so we can pay the exorbitant cost of being in the top flight. The alternative to the Wenger approach would be opening the doors to Usmanov. Those were our two options. In the course of implementing and completing the financial plan we haven't won trophies, if people think this is a failing then it's a legitimate enough argument, they can say Wenger hasn't done enough. But some are focusing only on this aspect of the last 10 years and carefully avoiding everything else. And some certainly do go as far as calling him a thief. He hasn't delivered trophies therefore he has taken wages he hasn't earned. Yes, if you view the last decade in such simple terms and devoid of the detail there is a non-point to be made that Wenger has cost the club. But you have to exclude most of the facts to make this stick. If another manager comes in and has a life made ten times easier through Wenger's efforts, I hope these "fans" at least have the good grace to acknowledge the huge contribution Wenger has made to this club. i think some of them won't. I think some of them will have a party on that day. It's this bitter refusal to look at the broader picture that pisses me off. I'm not saying that's you, btw. I'm not even saying it's anything other than a couple of fools on this forum. I'm more looking at these know nothing spotty dickhead kids who know as much about football as an actual football, wear their shirts, wave their flags and tweet how Wenger is a cunt. I;d really like to see those bastards go elsewhere, like chav or gypo land, where they belong.

Firstly, I think Wenger deep down is at a stage now where he knows that what is right & needed for the team but it goes against the grain of everything he believes in. I am & always will be massively thankful to him for what he has achieved for my club. I have not been very complimentary about him in recent years but if I met him on the street I would be honoured to shake his hand.
You mention the stadium & how well has done to achieve what he has done & in a recent post you also mentioned beginning to deliver on the pitch "as scheduled". What schedule are you working to. When Danny Fitz & Wenger told us the news about the Emirates move & how it would mean we could now compete to become Europe's best, I simply don't remember any schedule's. Certainly not 10 years & to be honest are we actually any closer to that than we were when we started. We were told that 40,000+
at home games would cover stadium payments & the balance plus new lucrative commercial deals would mean we had money to spend. Again no mention of a decade of financially struggles. Wenger was part of this & how many times was he or the board asked if we had money to spend & answered like they were politicians. I don't think he's a thief but he was part of the lie that cemented the move. Yes, its wonderful to have a modern stadium & be told we are finally ready to compete but nowadays we have to be more ambitious & ready to spend a little bit more to get the quality needed as opposed to our Highbury days. We don't have a manager in that mould, if we're not going to do all in our power to compete with the Chavs & the Mancs then we may aswell admit that we have spent 10 years paying for a stadium to watch a team struggling to finish top 4 in England let alone the "best in Europe".

[I am invisible]

Again, I think it's important to note the massive difference between a manager and a head coach here - managers are responsible for large parts of the running of their clubs at all levels , whereas head coaches have few responsibilities or cares beyond first-team matters. This is why I think genuine managers like Wenger can justifiably command higher salaries than coaches - because they do more work for it.

Personally speaking, I don't think there should be any questions about whether Wenger deserves his salary, because I think he's absolutely earned it for the careful job he's done in guiding us through the last 10 years (and for nearly 2 decades of service in general) - I do think it's entirely reasonable to ask whether we still need a world-class manager to help steer us through some ridiculously tricky times, or whether we'd now be better off with a more straightforward but specialized, head coach, but there's ways of putting it. Just because our needs have changed and the game has moved on, it doesn't mean that Wenger's a total c--t who doesn't know how to do anything, and that every single thing he does is wrong - maybe it just means that he's a man who's been asked to do a job for the club, that that job is pretty much done now, and that it's time for something new for everyone?

[Özim]

Again, I think it's important to note the massive difference between a manager and a head coach here - managers are responsible for large parts of the running of their clubs at all levels , whereas head coaches have few responsibilities or cares beyond first-team matters. This is why I think genuine managers like Wenger can justifiably command higher salaries than coaches - because they do more work for it.

Personally speaking, I don't think there should be any questions about whether Wenger deserves his salary, because I think he's absolutely earned it for the careful job he's done in guiding us through the last 10 years (and for nearly 2 decades of service in general) - I do think it's entirely reasonable to ask whether we still need a world-class manager to help steer us through some ridiculously tricky times, or whether we'd now be better off with a more straightforward but specialized, head coach, but there's ways of putting it. Just because our needs have changed and the game has moved on, it doesn't mean that Wenger's a total c--t who doesn't know how to do anything, and that every single thing he does is wrong - maybe it just means that he's a man who's been asked to do a job for the club, and that that job is pretty much done now?

A manager's job is to manage the team and everything related to that, it's not to get involved in the finances or any other parts, it never has been. Wenger has taken it upon himself to get involved in all sorts for some reason, that's not his job and should never have been.

That's always been the case with managers, nothings changed in that regard.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh, don't start ranting! That's got nothing to do with this conversation. Your logic is totally flawed.



You keep trying to separate the Board and Wenger when it's pretty clear that their visions are aligned. That's too hard for you to accept. Why would Wenger try to keep costs low and deliver on their targets if he wasn't on Board their vision? Why would he justify a price hike? Wenger came up with the blueprint if these guys are thieves. He chooses to buy undervalued players and sell for maximum profit, he came up with the over 30s contract policy, he's the one thoroughly convinced that 4th is an achievement. He serves his masters well.

Why have you introduced the idea I'm claiming a split between the manager and the board? The old lot have cashed out and are gone. The new lot are investing, so it appears. Where did I say their aims differ from Wenger's?

Or put in a simpler way, why are you making shit up?

[LDG]

Again, I think it's important to note the massive difference between a manager and a head coach here - managers are responsible for large parts of the running of their clubs at all levels , whereas head coaches have few responsibilities or cares beyond first-team matters. This is why I think genuine managers like Wenger can justifiably command higher salaries than coaches - because they do more work for it.

Personally speaking, I don't think there should be any questions about whether Wenger deserves his salary, because I think he's absolutely earned it for the careful job he's done in guiding us through the last 10 years (and for nearly 2 decades of service in general) - I do think it's entirely reasonable to ask whether we still need a world-class manager to help steer us through some ridiculously tricky times, or whether we'd now be better off with a more straightforward but specialized, head coach, but there's ways of putting it. Just because our needs have changed and the game has moved on, it doesn't mean that Wenger's a total c--t who doesn't know how to do anything, and that every single thing he does is wrong - maybe it just means that he's a man who's been asked to do a job for the club, that that job is pretty much done now, and that it's time for something new for everyone?

Exactly.

[Power n Glory]

Firstly, I think Wenger deep down is at a stage now where he knows that what is right & needed for the team but it goes against the grain of everything he believes in. I am & always will be massively thankful to him for what he has achieved for my club. I have not been very complimentary about him in recent years but if I met him on the street I would be honoured to shake his hand.
You mention the stadium & how well has done to achieve what he has done & in a recent post you also mentioned beginning to deliver on the pitch "as scheduled". What schedule are you working to. When Danny Fitz & Wenger told us the news about the Emirates move & how it would mean we could now compete to become Europe's best, I simply don't remember any schedule's. Certainly not 10 years & to be honest are we actually any closer to that than we were when we started. We were told that 40,000+
at home games would cover stadium payments & the balance plus new lucrative commercial deals would mean we had money to spend. Again no mention of a decade of financially struggles. Wenger was part of this & how many times was he or the board asked if we had money to spend & answered like they were politicians. I don't think he's a thief but he was part of the lie that cemented the move. Yes, its wonderful to have a modern stadium & be told we are finally ready to compete but nowadays we have to be more ambitious & ready to spend a little bit more to get the quality needed as opposed to our Highbury days. We don't have a manager in that mould, if we're not going to do all in our power to compete with the Chavs & the Mancs then we may aswell admit that we have spent 10 years paying for a stadium to watch a team struggling to finish top 4 in England let alone the "best in Europe".

:gp:

[Niall_Quinn]

Firstly, I think Wenger deep down is at a stage now where he knows that what is right & needed for the team but it goes against the grain of everything he believes in. I am & always will be massively thankful to him for what he has achieved for my club. I have not been very complimentary about him in recent years but if I met him on the street I would be honoured to shake his hand.
You mention the stadium & how well has done to achieve what he has done & in a recent post you also mentioned beginning to deliver on the pitch "as scheduled". What schedule are you working to. When Danny Fitz & Wenger told us the news about the Emirates move & how it would mean we could now compete to become Europe's best, I simply don't remember any schedule's. Certainly not 10 years & to be honest are we actually any closer to that than we were when we started. We were told that 40,000+
at home games would cover stadium payments & the balance plus new lucrative commercial deals would mean we had money to spend. Again no mention of a decade of financially struggles. Wenger was part of this & how many times was he or the board asked if we had money to spend & answered like they were politicians. I don't think he's a thief but he was part of the lie that cemented the move. Yes, its wonderful to have a modern stadium & be told we are finally ready to compete but nowadays we have to be more ambitious & ready to spend a little bit more to get the quality needed as opposed to our Highbury days. We don't have a manager in that mould, if we're not going to do all in our power to compete with the Chavs & the Mancs then we may aswell admit that we have spent 10 years paying for a stadium to watch a team struggling to finish top 4 in England let alone the "best in Europe".

Gazidis stated the target for bringing serious additional revenue streams online is the Summer of 2014. We're almost there so his prediction and the effectiveness of the plan can soon be tested. Don't forget there was a crash in the property market and a general economic downturn, property was tied in tightly to the financial plan. But apparently we are on target. I think this is why some have stepped up their desperate efforts to undermine Wenger. They want him out regardless of anything he has done for the club and regardless of damage to his reputation because they feel another guy can better utilise what has been built over the last decade. In principle this may be correct, maybe there is a better option purely in terms of what happens on the pitch. It's the manner in which they go about these things, belittling the man, throwing his achievements in the bin as irrelevant or downplaying them. They are happy to take the money and hand it to another guy, but still feel the need to stab the guy who helped generate the revenue (now and sustainably into the future) in the process. Some want us out of the CL if that means Wenger walks - they actually want to damage the club and set us back. Some want us to be beaten on the pitch by our rivals. I have this nauseating image of the same people cheering and expressing their undying love for the club the next time we win something.

[selassie]

Firstly, I think Wenger deep down is at a stage now where he knows that what is right & needed for the team but it goes against the grain of everything he believes in. I am & always will be massively thankful to him for what he has achieved for my club. I have not been very complimentary about him in recent years but if I met him on the street I would be honoured to shake his hand.
You mention the stadium & how well has done to achieve what he has done & in a recent post you also mentioned beginning to deliver on the pitch "as scheduled". What schedule are you working to. When Danny Fitz & Wenger told us the news about the Emirates move & how it would mean we could now compete to become Europe's best, I simply don't remember any schedule's. Certainly not 10 years & to be honest are we actually any closer to that than we were when we started. We were told that 40,000+
at home games would cover stadium payments & the balance plus new lucrative commercial deals would mean we had money to spend. Again no mention of a decade of financially struggles. Wenger was part of this & how many times was he or the board asked if we had money to spend & answered like they were politicians. I don't think he's a thief but he was part of the lie that cemented the move. Yes, its wonderful to have a modern stadium & be told we are finally ready to compete but nowadays we have to be more ambitious & ready to spend a little bit more to get the quality needed as opposed to our Highbury days. We don't have a manager in that mould, if we're not going to do all in our power to compete with the Chavs & the Mancs then we may aswell admit that we have spent 10 years paying for a stadium to watch a team struggling to finish top 4 in England let alone the "best in Europe".

:gp:

[Power n Glory]

Why have you introduced the idea I'm claiming a split between the manager and the board? The old lot have cashed out and are gone. The new lot are investing, so it appears. Where did I say their aims differ from Wenger's?

Or put in a simpler way, why are you making shit up?

:doh:

You’re just not getting it. If you’re going to accuse the old Board of thievery, then Wenger has played his part and was complicit. He’s kept quiet about transfer fees and played the politician, as Dein Machine points out, whenever questioned on our finances. He’s sold the dream to the fans regarding our young squad, 2% away from domination and the benefits of the Emirates. ‘I am Invisible’ even points out the difference between a coach and a manager. The man helped design the stadium for pete’s sake. How can you accuse the old board of something so cynical and turn a blind eye to Wenger when he’s come up with the policies?

[selassie]

Gazidis stated the target for bringing serious additional revenue streams online is the Summer of 2014. We're almost there so his prediction and the effectiveness of the plan can soon be tested. Don't forget there was a crash in the property market and a general economic downturn, property was tied in tightly to the financial plan. But apparently we are on target. I think this is why some have stepped up their desperate efforts to undermine Wenger. They want him out regardless of anything he has done for the club and regardless of damage to his reputation because they feel another guy can better utilise what has been built over the last decade. In principle this may be correct, maybe there is a better option purely in terms of what happens on the pitch. It's the manner in which they go about these things, belittling the man, throwing his achievements in the bin as irrelevant or downplaying them. They are happy to take the money and hand it to another guy, but still feel the need to stab the guy who helped generate the revenue (now and sustainably into the future) in the process. Some want us out of the CL if that means Wenger walks - they actually want to damage the club and set us back. Some want us to be beaten on the pitch by our rivals. I have this nauseating image of the same people cheering and expressing their undying love for the club the next time we win something.

Or maybe some of us want a manager that does everything in his power to achieve success for this football club?

OK...so I can only speak for myself here, I totally respect Wenger, what he has done for this club is commendable work and I agree that we will thank him in the future for building a solid platform for this football club and putting us in a stable position financially.

The issue I have with him are what appear to be his ideals. I don't like the way he approaches the transfer market, I think he is very passive in this regard and IMO he places far too much of an emphasis on internal development than external solutions. I think this attitude stretches to the way he trains and develops players too, far too much trust is given.

I certainly don't want the club to struggle or fail, I don't want Wenger to fail, I just want Arsenal as a football club to do as much as it can with it's given resources.

I don't really see any tangible progress in the grand scheme of things and that's why I have been quite vocal about wanting Wenger gone, what are people waiting for or expecting to change?

[Dein-machine]

Gazidis stated the target for bringing serious additional revenue streams online is the Summer of 2014. We're almost there so his prediction and the effectiveness of the plan can soon be tested. Don't forget there was a crash in the property market and a general economic downturn, property was tied in tightly to the financial plan. But apparently we are on target. I think this is why some have stepped up their desperate efforts to undermine Wenger. They want him out regardless of anything he has done for the club and regardless of damage to his reputation because they feel another guy can better utilise what has been built over the last decade. In principle this may be correct, maybe there is a better option purely in terms of what happens on the pitch. It's the manner in which they go about these things, belittling the man, throwing his achievements in the bin as irrelevant or downplaying them. They are happy to take the money and hand it to another guy, but still feel the need to stab the guy who helped generate the revenue (now and sustainably into the future) in the process. Some want us out of the CL if that means Wenger walks - they actually want to damage the club and set us back. Some want us to be beaten on the pitch by our rivals. I have this nauseating image of the same people cheering and expressing their undying love for the club the next time we win something.

Not talking about what Gazidis told us in a couple of years ago - that's 8 years after the "best in Europe" speech.
I have no doubts that you are right about certain people but in truth he has brought a lot of this on himself. The gutter press & certain individuals take great pleasure in trying to disprove arrogant people. Over the years it has been embarrasing to listen to some of his excuses, always when angry after a defeat, even as a Arsenal Fan. The "I didnt' see it" series. He wouldn't be told about his "youth" policy, wouldn't be told that we needed a different style (plan B) at times, wouldn't be told we were weak in certain areas when even my grandma could see it - these things mean he puts himself out in the open ready to be shot at. All the time we were winning things & at least competing he could hold two fingers up to the world but the promises of things improving has now run its course & he's inner frustrations are clear to see. Its hard for someone like him to admit that he is failing but in his own mind he knows he's past it now & any chance of Arsenal becomming the best in Europe will not happen under his reign.
Those people you mention who actually want us out of the C.L & to see us lose to Wigan simply say this out of spite in the hope it wakes the board up to take their noses out of Wengers arse. They are no different to you, they want whats best for their club but unlike you they think that can happen whilst Wenger is in situ - if these people got their way & Wenger was replaced next year & we went on the win the league, would you not cheer & express your undying love for the club - I think & hope you would.

[Globalgunner]

Its not that he dosent get it he refuses to. Big difference. NQ lives vicariously through Wenger, claims to know stuff that can easily be disputed. Wenger is being paid apparently for doing stuff that other managers dont. Work that trophy targetting clubs leave to others.

It is widely reported that our pay back terms are annually anything between 20-24m. Which is about 6 days match revenue. Wenger himself earns anything between 7-8m annually.

So Saint Wenger earns about 1/3rd of our annual mortgage and has delivered not a tiddlywink since we moved to Emirates. He certainly loves the club. but not enough to make the fans who earn him his mountain of dosh happy. Instead he indulges himself in flights of fancy and football for idealists. Buying players that he likes, not what the team needs.

Wed best be careful not to kill Wenger on these boards otherwise someone else might just keel over and squawk.

[Özim]

Or maybe some of us want a manager that does everything in his power to achieve success for this football club?

OK...so I can only speak for myself here, I totally respect Wenger, what he has done for this club is commendable work and I agree that we will thank him in the future for building a solid platform for this football club and putting us in a stable position financially.

The issue I have with him are what appear to be his ideals. I don't like the way he approaches the transfer market, I think he is very passive in this regard and IMO he places far too much of an emphasis on internal development than external solutions. I think this attitude stretches to the way he trains and develops players too, far too much trust is given.

I certainly don't want the club to struggle or fail, I don't want Wenger to fail, I just want Arsenal as a football club to do as much as it can with it's given resources.

I don't really see any tangible progress in the grand scheme of things and that's why I have been quite vocal about wanting Wenger gone, what are people waiting for or expecting to change?

Brilliant post and totally agree, I'm not sure what will convince some people it's time Wenger moves on, every season he gets another season and the same thing happens again, when do people say enough is enough it's just not working anymore?

They seem to have successfully convinced some people 4th place is a successful season for us.

[Niall_Quinn]

:doh:

You’re just not getting it. If you’re going to accuse the old Board of thievery, then Wenger has played his part and was complicit. He’s kept quiet about transfer fees and played the politician, as Dein Machine points out, whenever questioned on our finances. He’s sold the dream to the fans regarding our young squad, 2% away from domination and the benefits of the Emirates. ‘I am Invisible’ even points out the difference between a coach and a manager. The man helped design the stadium for pete’s sake. How can you accuse the old board of something so cynical and turn a blind eye to Wenger when he’s come up with the policies?

Nicely switched. The old board members were mentioned as being far better candidates to accuse of thievery than Wenger because they genuinely took much more than they put in. The original claim was Wenger has stuffed his pockets at the expense of the club - which is of course utter bullshit. He's put in far more than he's ever taken out, not in terms of investment from his own pocket but from the financial rewards of performing to a certain level on the pitch and collaborating with the board to expand the infrastructure of the club, continue to attract a certain level of players and place the club in a position to sign lucrative commercial deals. Crucial revenue at a crucial time leading to bigger revenues at a later time. You quote "I am invisible" in one respect and then ignore, "Personally speaking, I don't think there should be any questions about whether Wenger deserves his salary, because I think he's absolutely earned it for the careful job he's done in guiding us through the last 10 years (and for nearly 2 decades of service in general)" A convenient and selective oversight?

[Niall_Quinn]

Its not that he dosent get it he refuses to. Big difference. NQ lives vicariously through Wenger, claims to know stuff that can easily be disputed. Wenger is being paid apparently for doing stuff that other managers dont. Work that trophy targetting clubs leave to others.

It is widely reported that our pay back terms are annually anything between 20-24m. Which is about 6 days match revenue. Wenger himself earns anything between 7-8m annually.

So Saint Wenger earns about 1/3rd of our annual mortgage and has delivered not a tiddlywink since we moved to Emirates. He certainly loves the club. but not enough to make the fans who earn him his mountain of dosh happy. Instead he indulges himself in flights of fancy and football for idealists. Buying players that he likes, not what the team needs.

Wed best be careful not to kill Wenger on these boards otherwise someone else might just keel over and squawk.

As everyone can clearly see here - the lack of respect for Wenger goes well beyond the decisions he makes on the pitch or in the transfer market. It's a loathing, gloating hatred and it's this sort of shit that will cause people to rally behind the manager. Look to the match threads if you want to see just about everyone criticising Wenger for his substitutions or team selections, look to the transfer threads if you want to see just about everyone criticising Wenger for his signings or lack of them. Look in places like this if you want to see hatred of the manager and anyone else who won't join in the frantic braying for not just the manager's head but his reputation too. Fans who have respect for the club will know what to make of it.

[Dein-machine]

As everyone can clearly see here - the lack of respect for Wenger goes well beyond the decisions he makes on the pitch or in the transfer market. It's a loathing, gloating hatred and it's this sort of shit that will cause people to rally behind the manager. Look to the match threads if you want to see just about everyone criticising Wenger for his substitutions or team selections, look to the transfer threads if you want to see just about everyone criticising Wenger for his signings or lack of them. Look in places like this if you want to see hatred of the manager and anyone else who won't join in the frantic braying for not just the manager's head but his reputation too. Fans who have respect for the club will know what to make of it.

We as fans support Arsenal F.C. - not Arsene Wenger F.C, the hatred & criticism you mention is from Arsenal fans - why do you think this is. His footballing achievements in the last decade have been well below the expectations of Arsenal F.C., expectations that he bought on himself with previous success. Now he brings on the hatred & criticism on himself because of the continuous predictability of his failings & he does nothing to try & change.

[fakeyank]

Brilliant post and totally agree, I'm not sure what will convince some people it's time Wenger moves on, every season he gets another season and the same thing happens again, when do people say enough is enough it's just not working anymore?

They seem to have successfully convinced some people 4th place is a successful season for us.

:gp:

To also add on to Selassie's post, its not just about transfers for me. He just does not have a plan B. We are predictable like a Chuck Norris movie. Our football is dire and its getting progressively worse every season. Where is the pace in the team? He groups a bunch of CAM's all over the park to tippy tappy all day. We need more of the Gnabry's, Walcotts, Oxlades, Rosicky's to take on their players on the wings. Move the ball faster and attack their box.

These do not require a Russian billionaire or an Arab to invest trillion dollars. You train the team the right way, get players you need- not ones who are 'technically gifted' and play players in their best position. Example: Everton, Southampton and Liverpool this season. Didnt spend a whole lot of money but their football is just good to watch. There is a heightened feeling of excitement that somethings going to happen when they move forward. At Arsenal, you know a quick break will break down the moment it touches Arteta's feet or any of our midfielders feet. Tippy tappy BS!

[Niall_Quinn]

We as fans support Arsenal F.C. - not Arsene Wenger F.C, the hatred & criticism you mention is from Arsenal fans - why do you think this is. His footballing achievements in the last decade have been well below the expectations of Arsenal F.C., expectations that he bought on himself with previous success. Now he brings on the hatred & criticism on himself because of the continuous predictability of his failings & he does nothing to try & change.

Hatred and criticism are two different things. Criticism goes with the territory and is entirely valid when levelled at anyone who chooses to put themselves in the spotlight. Constructive criticism is more useful, but all types will pour in anyway. Hatred though, to the point where even the achievements of the man are twisted into negatives? Nothing useful there at all.

[Dein-machine]

Hatred and criticism are two different things. Criticism goes with the territory and is entirely valid when levelled at anyone who chooses to put themselves in the spotlight. Constructive criticism is more useful, but all types will pour in anyway. Hatred though, to the point where even the achievements of the man are twisted into negatives? Nothing useful there at all.

I would agree with you on that score but the hatred will only get worse from those that see him as taking a substantial amount of money from our club in salary whilst not being prepared to spend on quality in the right areas.

[Power n Glory]

Nicely switched. The old board members were mentioned as being far better candidates to accuse of thievery than Wenger because they genuinely took much more than they put in. The original claim was Wenger has stuffed his pockets at the expense of the club - which is of course utter bullshit. He's put in far more than he's ever taken out, not in terms of investment from his own pocket but from the financial rewards of performing to a certain level on the pitch and collaborating with the board to expand the infrastructure of the club, continue to attract a certain level of players and place the club in a position to sign lucrative commercial deals. Crucial revenue at a crucial time leading to bigger revenues at a later time. You quote "I am invisible" in one respect and then ignore, "Personally speaking, I don't think there should be any questions about whether Wenger deserves his salary, because I think he's absolutely earned it for the careful job he's done in guiding us through the last 10 years (and for nearly 2 decades of service in general)" A convenient and selective oversight?

I don’t think you understand the original connection in the first place regarding Wenger’s wages. He’s been paid handsomely by the Board for the policies he’s implemented. He keeps running costs low. The fans get zero, the players a small percentage whilst those at the top are paid very well. As a top coach, he deserves his salary. I won’t dispute that because I believe we should reward loyalty and success. But’s odd the amount of times you’ll argue against the same when our top performing players are due a pay rise. Full of contradictions. Just the same as you accusing the Board of asset stripping and thievery but remain blind to Wenger’s part if that’s really true.

Again – why would he justify a price hike to the fans and say it was necessary to compete with Chelsea and Man City? Don’t avoid that question.

[Globalgunner]

I don’t think you understand the original connection in the first place regarding Wenger’s wages. He’s been paid handsomely by the Board for the policies he’s implemented. He keeps running costs low. The fans get zero, the players a small percentage whilst those at the top are paid very well. As a top coach, he deserves his salary. I won’t dispute that because I believe we should reward loyalty and success. But’s odd the amount of times you’ll argue against the same when our top performing players are due a pay rise. Full of contradictions. Just the same as you accusing the Board of asset stripping and thievery but remain blind to Wenger’s part if that’s really true.

Again – why would he justify a price hike to the fans and say it was necessary to compete with Chelsea and Man City? Don’t avoid that question.

I dont even think he does that. We spend more on salaries than everyone else except United Chelsea and City. They say he has an economics degree. (VIR) Value Investment Return is abysmally low in this club.

[LDG]

I think it's time to rol out the old Letters favourites.

Hand-Wringing

Knashing of Teeth

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

I think it's time to rol out the old Letters favourites.

Hand-Wringing

Knashing of Teeth
King of the World.

[Power n Glory]

I dont even think he does that. We spend more on salaries than everyone else except United Chelsea and City. They say he has an economics degree. (VIR) Value Investment Return is abysmally low in this club.

That’s true. Maybe I should say running costs low in comparison to our rivals and our net spending. It still makes no sense why we’ll spend over £150k on 3 average players with zero chance of first team football instead of spending it on a world class talent. What was that figure? Something like £7m spent since the moved to the Emirates? Absolutely crazy. But he had this sort of rep before the Emirates and before Arsenal.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don’t think you understand the original connection in the first place regarding Wenger’s wages. He’s been paid handsomely by the Board for the policies he’s implemented. He keeps running costs low. The fans get zero, the players a small percentage whilst those at the top are paid very well. As a top coach, he deserves his salary. I won’t dispute that because I believe we should reward loyalty and success. But’s odd the amount of times you’ll argue against the same when our top performing players are due a pay rise. Full of contradictions. Just the same as you accusing the Board of asset stripping and thievery but remain blind to Wenger’s part if that’s really true.

Again – why would he justify a price hike to the fans and say it was necessary to compete with Chelsea and Man City? Don’t avoid that question.

Last question first then. I have absolutely no doubt you have twisted what he said and paraphrased the result to meets your needs, because that's what you do. But even then, if he said it is necessary to raise prices to bring in more revenue to compete with the comedy clubs then what of it? What's the great ah-ha conclusion being reached in relation to the original supposition that Wenger doesn't deserve his wages? And even more so, now you've reversed and said he does deserve them, what am I missing here? Explain it.

I'll take a guess at deciphering based on the claim you make the the fans have had nothing. Well if there was never an intention to deliver on the reasons for undertaking the stadium project in the first place, I'd agree. Ticket increases would be outrageous, salaries at the executive level would be outrageous. But for this to be the case there would have to be no signs of delivery. And yet there are clear signs. So why not take the price increases in the context of the overall plan rather than suggest they are a further means to milk the fans? You understand I'm not even saying with certainty these guys will deliver and it is not their aim to rob everyone. Maybe it is. None of us knows for sure this isn't the end game. What I'm saying is they have delivered some of what they promised they would deliver, a world class signing for big money, much improved sponsorship deals. So the evidence goes in their favour at the present time. We genuinely seem to be on the verge of moving into a sustainable period where we can compete at the top level of the game, in a business sense at least.

Of course we cannot ever compete with some barbaric monarch with endless funding, nobody can. Business doesn't work like that, normally you have to invest and build a business. Very few have the means to run their pseudo-business at a perpetual loss, pumping more money all the time to fund the loss. But it's also true you can only put eleven players on the pitch at any given time, so we now have the means to attract eleven such players who may not fancy sitting it out on the comedy club benches. And of course you need more than eleven and if it's true we will have up to £70mill a year to fund transfers we can start to build a squad with sufficient quality to counter the huge financial advantage of the dopers.

Some of the money I hope we'll spend will come from sponsorship deals, money attracted to the club because those investing it think they can make more money back. The rest will come straight from the pocket of the fans, more fans given the increased stadium capacity. This is when the fans get their money back, when they see better quality - expensive assets - on the pitch. This in turn improves the chances of delivering those trophies. I'm assuming ticket prices are set in relation to the budget and other variable factors such as inflation and the continually rising cost of transfer fees, player wages and so on. And I suppose because the nation runs a debt based, inflation based economy ticket prices will always increase. The fans will then have to weigh the cost of a ticket against what is being delivered on the pitch in terms of entertainment and results. Some will find the balance in their favour, others won't. Unfortunately many will be priced out entirely, but that's a general ailment with modern football and not specific to Arsenal.

Finally, on that first point, there's a more simple reason Wenger might justify a price increase. Because the club owners say that's the way it's going to be. Simple as. He's an employee. How was the question framed? Was he asked if he likes the price increases? If he disagrees with them? I can't recall and I go back to the first sentence in my response.

On your other points, you are revisiting the Wenger runs everything and controls everything argument. That's your opinion,, based on nothing. It's almost certain this isn't the case, as no businesses run like that and no investors would tolerate such a state of affairs if for nothing more than prudence. If you mean Wenger has a say in everything then probably he does and that makes sense, he's been there for almost two decades. It's odd he couldn't save his friend Dein if he has such overwhelming control.

Regarding the players, there's no doubt Wenger has delivered many times over. We may not agree with the priorities that have been set, we may hate certain aspects of the finances and the business plan, but Wenger has delivered what the board has demanded with unerring consistency. There's no genuine dispute about him earning his salary. The players on the other hand, they have a task to achieve too. On the pitch. On the training ground and, because they are in a position of great privilege, in their personal lives too. Some have delivered, often under difficult circumstances. Some have not. It's not black and white like Wenger's delivery, and there's a degree of subjectivity. But some players can rightly be criticised for failing to deliver a return on the amount invested in them. A lot of them were cleared out last summer. Some have jumped ship in search of more money without ever providing an equitable return for the money they took from Arsenal. In these cases it's legitimate to criticise the player.

The departed board members invested little and took a fortune. They started the project to enhance the revenues of the club, so fair enough if you are generous and say they had the best interests of the club at heart. From their antics in the boardroom and the fact they cashed out there's strong evidence to suggest their motivation was purely selfish. But no solid proof admittedly. Legally speaking they were entitled to do what they did. I mention them in response to the ludicrous idea it has been Wenger on the take.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9797037/Arsene-Wenger-says-ticket-prices-only-way-Arsenal-can-compete.html

Yes, I've made this up! :doh:

Please stop trying to twist my words. I never said Wenger didn't deserve his wages. Please reread, check the arguments again and please tell me how it's possible to exempt Wenger from wrong doing but pin everything on the board for thievery in light of this? Is he turning a blind eye?

[Power n Glory]

I really don't understand how you can blast our owners for being crooked and not see that Wenger quite happily serves them.

[Globalgunner]

Last question first then. I have absolutely no doubt you have twisted what he said and paraphrased the result to meets your needs, because that's what you do. But even then, if he said it is necessary to raise prices to bring in more revenue to compete with the comedy clubs then what of it? What's the great ah-ha conclusion being reached in relation to the original supposition that Wenger doesn't deserve his wages? And even more so, now you've reversed and said he does deserve them, what am I missing here? Explain it.

I'll take a guess at deciphering based on the claim you make the the fans have had nothing. Well if there was never an intention to deliver on the reasons for undertaking the stadium project in the first place, I'd agree. Ticket increases would be outrageous, salaries at the executive level would be outrageous. But for this to be the case there would have to be no signs of delivery. And yet there are clear signs. So why not take the price increases in the context of the overall plan rather than suggest they are a further means to milk the fans? You understand I'm not even saying with certainty these guys will deliver and it is not their aim to rob everyone. Maybe it is. None of us knows for sure this isn't the end game. What I'm saying is they have delivered some of what they promised they would deliver, a world class signing for big money, much improved sponsorship deals. So the evidence goes in their favour at the present time. We genuinely seem to be on the verge of moving into a sustainable period where we can compete at the top level of the game, in a business sense at least.

Of course we cannot ever compete with some barbaric monarch with endless funding, nobody can. Business doesn't work like that, normally you have to invest and build a business. Very few have the means to run their pseudo-business at a perpetual loss, pumping more money all the time to fund the loss. But it's also true you can only put eleven players on the pitch at any given time, so we now have the means to attract eleven such players who may not fancy sitting it out on the comedy club benches. And of course you need more than eleven and if it's true we will have up to £70mill a year to fund transfers we can start to build a squad with sufficient quality to counter the huge financial advantage of the dopers.

Some of the money I hope we'll spend will come from sponsorship deals, money attracted to the club because those investing it think they can make more money back. The rest will come straight from the pocket of the fans, more fans given the increased stadium capacity. This is when the fans get their money back, when they see better quality - expensive assets - on the pitch. This in turn improves the chances of delivering those trophies. I'm assuming ticket prices are set in relation to the budget and other variable factors such as inflation and the continually rising cost of transfer fees, player wages and so on. And I suppose because the nation runs a debt based, inflation based economy ticket prices will always increase. The fans will then have to weigh the cost of a ticket against what is being delivered on the pitch in terms of entertainment and results. Some will find the balance in their favour, others won't. Unfortunately many will be priced out entirely, but that's a general ailment with modern football and not specific to Arsenal.

Finally, on that first point, there's a more simple reason Wenger might justify a price increase. Because the club owners say that's the way it's going to be. Simple as. He's an employee. How was the question framed? Was he asked if he likes the price increases? If he disagrees with them? I can't recall and I go back to the first sentence in my response.

On your other points, you are revisiting the Wenger runs everything and controls everything argument. That's your opinion,, based on nothing. It's almost certain this isn't the case, as no businesses run like that and no investors would tolerate such a state of affairs if for nothing more than prudence. If you mean Wenger has a say in everything then probably he does and that makes sense, he's been there for almost two decades. It's odd he couldn't save his friend Dein if he has such overwhelming control.

Regarding the players, there's no doubt Wenger has delivered many times over. We may not agree with the priorities that have been set, we may hate certain aspects of the finances and the business plan, but Wenger has delivered what the board has demanded with unerring consistency. There's no genuine dispute about him earning his salary. The players on the other hand, they have a task to achieve too. On the pitch. On the training ground and, because they are in a position of great privilege, in their personal lives too. Some have delivered, often under difficult circumstances. Some have not. It's not black and white like Wenger's delivery, and there's a degree of subjectivity. But some players can rightly be criticised for failing to deliver a return on the amount invested in them. A lot of them were cleared out last summer. Some have jumped ship in search of more money without ever providing an equitable return for the money they took from Arsenal. In these cases it's legitimate to criticise the player.

The departed board members invested little and took a fortune. They started the project to enhance the revenues of the club, so fair enough if you are generous and say they had the best interests of the club at heart. From their antics in the boardroom and the fact they cashed out there's strong evidence to suggest their motivation was purely selfish. But no solid proof admittedly. Legally speaking they were entitled to do what they did. I mention them in response to the ludicrous idea it has been Wenger on the take.

Ive not seen as much dedication to a personal cult outside of North Korea..Disinformation, deflection, dis ingenuity, avoidance, assassination of character. You convince no one but yourself so stop trying so hard.

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/9797037/Arsene-Wenger-says-ticket-prices-only-way-Arsenal-can-compete.html

Yes, I've made this up! :doh:

Please stop trying to twist my words. I never said Wenger didn't deserve his wages. Please reread, check the arguments again and please tell me how it's possible to exempt Wenger from wrong doing but pin everything on the board for thievery in light of this? Is he turning a blind eye?

Didn't say you made it up, please stop trying to twist my words. I said you undoubtedly twisted his words and paraphrased what he said to fit your argument. And so you have:


“I am really worried they are high for our supporters. For the visitors, it only happens once per year so that is less a concern. [But] ideally you want ticket prices to be affordable to everybody. It is a very delicate subject.”

I've answered the other question I think 3 times now, I assume it's not the answer you want to hear which is probably why you keep asking the question as if it has not been answered.

[Niall_Quinn]

I really don't understand how you can blast our owners for being crooked and not see that Wenger quite happily serves them.

The old switcheroo again. I was responding to those who were accusing Wenger of robbing the club and advised them to look at more likely candidates. If you mean the stuff about Usmanov, I call him crooked because he is a crook.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ive not seen as much dedication to a personal cult outside of North Korea..Disinformation, deflection, dis ingenuity, avoidance, assassination of character. You convince no one but yourself so stop trying so hard.

Here you see him avoiding every counter argument so he can reach a conclusion that wouldn't otherwise be viable. And notice the reflection, even going as far as to throw out an accusation of character assassination.

[Globalgunner]

Here you see him avoiding every counter argument so he can reach a conclusion that wouldn't otherwise be viable. And notice the reflection, even going as far as to throw out an accusation of character assassination.

The viable conclusion is that Wenger must stay...Innit?

[Maestro]

every single thread on here has descended into a wenger in/out, pro/anti and associated fuckery

is anyone still modding on here :sulk:

[Power n Glory]

The old switcheroo again. I was responding to those who were accusing Wenger of robbing the club and advised them to look at more likely candidates. If you mean the stuff about Usmanov, I call him crooked because he is a crook.


You don't hate rich people but continually lambaste the previous shareholders who sold to Kroernke......You keep reminding us they took money out of the club , How so?. If you bought your own house for 150k and it came to time to sell. Would you accept a higher price or still sell at 150k


First we should say it's now a £500mill house that needs renovation. If I dearly loved the family moving in and and they were short a few quid for wallpaper I wouldn't really have a huge problem dropping the margin. Especially if the initial cost had been £150k - and I wonder how far from the truth that isn't?

Here is your original response to Globalgunner just to jog your memory.

In short, Wenger preaches financial prudence and spending within our means model. His policies and actions have helped prop up the valuation of the club so the previous shareholders could cash out, so why is he exempt from your criticism? Stan Kronke idolises Wenger and is right there along side him and applauding when he makes such comments...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/6340214/Arsene-Wenger-says-Arsenal-must-remain-prudent-as-Stan-Kroenke-increases-stake.html

You've often accused Stan and the previous owners of doing nothing to invest in the club but we have Wenger here saying that he doesn't like that model or want interference from billionaire owners. Stan's happy with that model so he can sit and watch his pot grow without spending his own money. Something is amiss. Why are they the only ones at fault but not Wenger?


Because the club owners say that's the way it's going to be. Simple as. He's an employee.

Yes, he's an employee but is he turning a blind eye to it? Who is he serving and you've also got to question his character if we're looking at the picture as a whole. If he's against outside investment then what's the alternative model? If he's defending a ticket price hike, whose interests is he looking out for? It's a model that will keep Stan from investing in the club. Also, I'm not suggesting we take Stan and Usamov's money but you may want to rethink your criticism of the current and old Board members then throw Wenger in the mix. He's bent over backwards to please them and it's not just an employer/employee relationship.

[Niall_Quinn]

Here is your original response to Globalgunner just to jog your memory.

In short, Wenger preaches financial prudence and spending within our means model. His policies and actions have helped prop up the valuation of the club so the previous shareholders could cash out, so why is he exempt from your criticism? Stan Kronke idolises Wenger and is right there along side him and applauding when he makes such comments...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/arsenal/6340214/Arsene-Wenger-says-Arsenal-must-remain-prudent-as-Stan-Kroenke-increases-stake.html

You've often accused Stan and the previous owners of doing nothing to invest in the club but we have Wenger here saying that he doesn't like that model or want interference from billionaire owners. Stan's happy with that model so he can sit and watch his pot grow without spending his own money. Something is amiss. Why are they the only ones at fault but not Wenger?



Yes, he's an employee but is he turning a blind eye to it? Who is he serving and you've also got to question his character if we're looking at the picture as a whole. If he's against outside investment then what's the alternative model? If he's defending a ticket price hike, whose interests is he looking out for? It's a model that will keep Stan from investing in the club. Also, I'm not suggesting we take Stan and Usamov's money but you may want to rethink your criticism of the current and old Board members then throw Wenger in the mix. He's bent over backwards to please them and it's not just an employer/employee relationship.

"His policies and actions have helped prop up the valuation of the club so the previous shareholders could cash out"

Are you saying that was Wenger's intention when embarking on the stadium project? To build value so the existing board could cash out? What information have you used to reach this conclusion? I'm not saying you are wrong, but isn't it more likely Wenger was working to build the financial power of the club regardless of who owned it? That's the basis on which I'll answer unless some sort of evidence is available to the contrary. Why doesn't Wenger deserve criticism for doing his job? Well, if it's true we are now in a stable position with the stadium debt under control and a healthy budget each year for investment on the pitch then I'd say what Wenger has done has been very beneficial for the club. So that's why I don't criticise him. I'm not going to repeat that again, I have said it enough times now. I do criticise him in other areas, but that's a different argument.

With Kroenke, who knows? It may well be he's sitting waiting for the pot to grow, as a business investor that's highly likely to be the case because that's generally the reason investors acquire assets, for growth and a bigger return. I criticised him for not sticking anything bar the minimum in from the outset. Just my opinion, I thought he could have done more - or reached an agreement with the previous bunch not to suck out every last drop. Wenger is an employee and a non-shareholder I don't see where he is involved in this side of things. I think you argued once he had some moral obligation to resign if he didn't agree with what was going on in the boardroom. I don't see that either, he has a job and he's done it. I assume he's been doing it in the best interests of the club. I base this on the fact he's been here for so long, transformed the place in so many ways, presided over many successes and turned down the advances of other clubs where he could have earned more. It appears to be more than just a case of money for Wenger.

Based on the evidence I don't question his character at all. Whose interests is he looking out for? Like any of us, there will be an element of him serving his own personal interests - this is entirely normal. But serving them in conjunction with a wider service to the club, which is the best way to serve personal interests I would have thought because when the club does well he will do well, as will everyone connected. Where we seem to differer is the definition of "doing well". I see a 10 year project reaching it's conclusion that should allow us to cement ourselves at the top of the game - maybe, because more chavs could arrive at any time. Isn't this what Wenger argues against? The dumping of cash to circumvent the natural steps required over time to build financial stability? Well if the authorities care so little about the game they allow any character to pitch up and start dumping cash then nobody can do anything about it except point out the long term disadvantages to sport in general. Nevertheless, we have done what it is possible to do within the confines of a genuine business model. Others argue the last 10 years has been about a lack of trophies. That's fine, argue it. I'm happier with having had some time at the top and then restructuring to build the environment for more of the same. Provided it hasn't been a giant scheme to first enrich the bunch that just left and then fill the pockets of the current lot with no return for the fans. Under the latter outcome of course I'd protest as loudly as you do. I see something else at the present, a more positive possibility.

[Power n Glory]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1216622/Arsenal-boss-Arsene-Wenger-takes-credit-Gunners-announce-record-35m-profit.html

Not your favorite of the rags but what the heck...


'I have always worked in clubs who make money, and I would not feel that I do my job well if we lost money at the end of the season - never, no matter what happens on the sporting side - because you put the club in trouble and, in my opinion, that cannot be accepted from any manager.'


This is the sort of mentality that probably bugs most supporters but I'm pretty sure the suits upstairs love him. I don't think the original Board members had envisioned selling off their shares when the stadium plans were drawn up. I'm not that cynical. I don't think that was the original intention. You seem to think they had sinister motives, so you tell me.

Year on year profit that wasn't invested back into the squad. We sat on the money make the club finances look healthier, or so I suspect. That shouldn't be his job and when I see the sort of transfer inaction as we've seen this year, it makes me even more suspicious. Where's his head at?

This is a very long winded debate but to wrap up, Wenger isn't naive. Once when addressing a shareholders meeting, his sharp tongue told them they should be the least disgruntled group because of our financial performance. He can see the connection. He's not just an employee and from the quoted comments, you can see this is a part of his philosophy.

[bignev]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12040/9243522/transfer-news-edinson-cavani-suggests-he-must-leave-psg-if-they-dont-change-their-style

Please Wenger. Undo all the hurt :pray:

[Özim]

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12040/9243522/transfer-news-edinson-cavani-suggests-he-must-leave-psg-if-they-dont-change-their-style

Please Wenger. Undo all the hurt :pray:

This is not going to happen, we'll get beaten to the punch as we always do, he won't be available at the end of August if he chooses to leave.

[Ollie the Optimist]

we know that PSG want Arsene to be their manager so £30 million and Arsene for Cavani?

[Özim]

We can even throw in Giroud maybe.

[Ollie the Optimist]

We can even throw in Giroud maybe.

don't be stupid. we actually want PSG to sell to us

[I am invisible]

We can even throw in Giroud maybe.

But without Giroud, he won't have anyone to aim for from the right side of our 433? I suppose we could always make Sanogo or Akpom our main striker, but I just don't think they're ready yet? If only there were a really obvious solution to this problem...

[fakeyank]

we know that PSG want Arsene to be their manager so £30 million and Arsene for Cavani?

:gp:

Best post on here tbh.

[I am invisible]

Looks like it's shaping up to be another summer where there's gonna be a lot of top strikers available (or at least unhappy)? Could also be a good selection of wide forwards and secondary strikers to choose from too, if we really want to go all-out on the attacking overhaul? Surely, we have to come out of it with something decent this time?

[Zerlathon]

Looks like it's shaping up to be another summer where there's gonna be a lot of top strikers available (or at least unhappy)? Could also be a good selection of wide forwards and secondary strikers to choose from too, if we really want to go all-out on the attacking overhaul? Surely, we have to come out of it with something decent this time?

Tabloids are "suggesting" that we are in the hunt for 2-3 WC Players along with other squad Players.

If I were to dream, I would be happy if we got Balotelli, Draxler and Bender/ Pogba, sorted out Sagna's contract and perhaps get Williams if Vermaelen went.